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    Best privacy chat apps

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    • JOduMonT
      JOduMonT @robi last edited by

      @robi said in Best privacy chat apps:

      for Mattermost, what is meant by 'gateway to other services' ? API integrations?

      Yes; but I'm not a Mattermost expert

      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
      • JOduMonT
        JOduMonT @mehdi last edited by JOduMonT

        @mehdi said in Best privacy chat apps:

        Olvid

        Olvid sound promessing, we cloud also talk about Threema which is more or less the same but developed in Switzerland. but at the end I took my list from AlternativeTo.net and took the top 10.

        Beware most of VOIP use opportunistic encryption mainly because of issues with NAT so trusting a 3rd party for that is a big mistake for your privacy.

        These days everything is secure like email aka the authentication use SSL than the message follow in clear text.

        It would be interesting to find how/if Olvid encrypt their VOIP and which part ANSSI complement.
        for now I only see the text message being encrypted.

        mehdi 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
        • mehdi
          mehdi App Dev @JOduMonT last edited by mehdi

          @jodumont I am of course only talking about good end-to-end encryption, like Signal or WhatsApp (yeah, WhatsApp has many flaws, mainly their owner, but they do have good encryption).

          I don't know about Telegram's encryption, I never looked into it. I just know they don't use any by default (which, in itself, is bad)

          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
          • mehdi
            mehdi App Dev @JOduMonT last edited by

            @jodumont about Olvid, from what I know, yes their calls are also encrypted, but they are only available for paid users.

            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
            • JOduMonT
              JOduMonT last edited by JOduMonT

              @mehdi said in Best privacy chat apps:

              I don't know about Telegram's encryption, I never looked into it. I just know they don't use any by default (which, in itself, is bad)

              we probably don't talk about the same phase of encryption, you seams focusing on the message (which obviously it is important) and I'm talking about the transfer

              anyway good thing this forum is encrypted by a SSL 😛

              mehdi 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
              • mehdi
                mehdi App Dev @JOduMonT last edited by

                @jodumont This table seems to be either outdated severly, or just plain wrong. Whatsapp does use end-to-end encryption, and has been using it for years.

                JOduMonT 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                • JOduMonT
                  JOduMonT @mehdi last edited by

                  @mehdi said in Best privacy chat apps:

                  This table seems to be either outdated severly

                  fair enough 🙂

                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                  • jdaviescoates
                    jdaviescoates last edited by

                    I came across a couple of nice chat comparisons recently.

                    First of all there is this nice infographic by niboe.info

                    compare_chat.png

                    Sadly I've been unable to find an English version of the other nice infographic in this accompanying article of theirs in Spanish.

                    I also came across this handy table from DivestOS (a privacy focused Android distribution):

                    https://divestos.org/index.php?page=messengers

                    Both of these make we wish Cloudron had an XMPP server like ejabberd so we could get our friends to try out Conversations and Movim (I mean, both Yunohost and HomeLabsOS have an XMPP server, and they are both fully open source and run by volunteers - whereas Cloudron is the one with a business model and full time paid @staff - and yet they've got XMPP and we don't! 😛 )

                    I use Cloudron with Gandi & Hetzner

                    JOduMonT robi 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 4
                    • JOduMonT
                      JOduMonT @jdaviescoates last edited by

                      maybe me, but personally I make a difference when you are able to generate or add your own key to encrypt versus the "platform" provide you the public and private key

                      mehdi 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                      • mehdi
                        mehdi App Dev @JOduMonT last edited by

                        @jodumont The key is always generated on your own device. There is zero reason to allow users to import an external key. If you don't trust the local app to correctly generate a keypair, you have no reason to trust it to correctly perform the encryption. So importing a key brings nothing.

                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                        • robi
                          robi @jdaviescoates last edited by

                          @jdaviescoates time to host an event, start packaging and get help finishing it! 🙂

                          Life of Gratitude.
                          Life of Advanced Technology

                          jdaviescoates 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                          • jdaviescoates
                            jdaviescoates @robi last edited by jdaviescoates

                            @robi I've often thought of learning to code. I loved maths as a kid. But now isn't the time. 🙂

                            I use Cloudron with Gandi & Hetzner

                            robi 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                            • robi
                              robi @jdaviescoates last edited by

                              @jdaviescoates there's no real coding involved.. it's mostly stitching things together and adjusting configs. You'll have help too.

                              Life of Gratitude.
                              Life of Advanced Technology

                              1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                              • marcusquinn
                                marcusquinn last edited by

                                Looks like Signal App's addition of payments using MobileCoin ($MOB) has struck a raw nerve with many.

                                Another alternative that seems to come up regularly on the comments underneath their Tweets is this Session App:

                                • https://getsession.org

                                YMMV but another one for the list and your esteemed critique.

                                We're not here for a long time - but we are here for a good time :)
                                Jersey/UK
                                Work & Ecommerce Advice: https://brandlight.org
                                Personal & Software Tips: https://marcusquinn.com

                                jdaviescoates 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                                • jdaviescoates
                                  jdaviescoates @marcusquinn last edited by

                                  @marcusquinn see also Snikket which seems like a great option too (and gets my vote for the XMPP that ought to be first added to Cloudron).

                                  I use Cloudron with Gandi & Hetzner

                                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                                  • atridad
                                    atridad App Dev last edited by atridad

                                    I'd still take Matrix over all of those for its decentralized and federated nature. It is incredibly secure and their Element client has truly come a long way. I would love to see Snikket and Oragono though. I tried packaging Oragono but lost the motivation part way through as I usually do.

                                    But my vote for matrix comes in here: Me and a friend could both have our own homeservers and still chat in a secure manner. If we're talking privacy, I'd say its at the top for sure.

                                    I type things and sometimes those things end up in your browser. 🏳️‍🌈🇮🇷🇨🇦

                                    jdaviescoates 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 5
                                    • jdaviescoates
                                      jdaviescoates @atridad last edited by

                                      @atrilahiji true, although I find Matrix to still be somewhat of a UX nightmare. It's often very confusing, even for geeky people.

                                      I use Cloudron with Gandi & Hetzner

                                      atridad 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                      • atridad
                                        atridad App Dev @jdaviescoates last edited by

                                        @jdaviescoates I mean, I wouldn't say I'm an expert in UX so I can't speak to that but I can say that for me I found it fairly intuitive. I know that this may not be everyone's experience though.

                                        I also am wary of UX issues or incredibly pretty apps sometimes because I find that a lot of apps seem to go 110% in on beautiful and intuitive UI while compromising on core functionality.

                                        I type things and sometimes those things end up in your browser. 🏳️‍🌈🇮🇷🇨🇦

                                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                        • marcusquinn
                                          marcusquinn last edited by marcusquinn

                                          I think any app requiring a central server will remain niche.

                                          Signal took a long time to persuade people to switch with very low signup friction.

                                          User experience is as fundamental to security as shoes are on gravel.

                                          If the experience doesn’t factor-in user onboarding time & friction, then it becomes a security issue in itself, by discouraging critical-mass adoption to be more useful than the ad-tech alternatives.

                                          We're not here for a long time - but we are here for a good time :)
                                          Jersey/UK
                                          Work & Ecommerce Advice: https://brandlight.org
                                          Personal & Software Tips: https://marcusquinn.com

                                          atridad 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                          • atridad
                                            atridad App Dev @marcusquinn last edited by atridad

                                            @marcusquinn said in Best privacy chat apps:

                                            I think any app requiring a central server will remain niche.

                                            Did you mean apps not requiring a central server? Looking at the current abysmal state of the internet, apps requiring central servers dominate.

                                            Signal took a long time to persuade people to switch with very low signup friction.

                                            User experience is as fundamental to security as shoes are on gravel.

                                            If the experience doesn’t factor in user onboard IG time and friction, the it becomes a security issue in discouraging critical mass adoption to be more useful than the ad-tech alternatives.

                                            I think this is a good ol' agree to disagree situation. I'm of the opinion that if someone needs to be coerced into caring about security they may as well stick with selling their soul to Sundar Pichai and Zucc. As far as I'm concerned the best privacy chat app is the one that best protects privacy. Simple as that.

                                            I type things and sometimes those things end up in your browser. 🏳️‍🌈🇮🇷🇨🇦

                                            marcusquinn 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 2
                                            • marcusquinn
                                              marcusquinn @atridad last edited by

                                              @atrilahiji The family reeeeeeallly resisted the push to Signal for months, these are people that care, and I care about, but the "why should I?" brainwashing runs deeper than personal and relationships nowadays.

                                              That's the power of user experience and trust in exchanging effort for that.

                                              For business and professionals, sure, we have some influence, but for personal, I'm afraid the user statistics speak for themselves.

                                              We're not here for a long time - but we are here for a good time :)
                                              Jersey/UK
                                              Work & Ecommerce Advice: https://brandlight.org
                                              Personal & Software Tips: https://marcusquinn.com

                                              atridad 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                              • marcusquinn
                                                marcusquinn @atridad last edited by marcusquinn

                                                @atrilahiji Moral hypothetical; mental health is an issue, I think we can agree on that?

                                                How do we reconcile having capabilities to improve user experience and adoption, against having people we care about unnecessarily unhealthy in mind because they "sold their soul", or more likely it was bought and sold for them?

                                                We're not here for a long time - but we are here for a good time :)
                                                Jersey/UK
                                                Work & Ecommerce Advice: https://brandlight.org
                                                Personal & Software Tips: https://marcusquinn.com

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                                                • atridad
                                                  atridad App Dev @marcusquinn last edited by

                                                  @marcusquinn I mean yeah, for a number of people the security aspect is something of a non-issue. What moves them is the UX. But I'd argue that most, if not all, open-source chat apps that allow for self hosting simply cannot compete with Signal because people move to the shiny thing. You and I know that there are better options if privacy is the concern, but for the majority of people privacy truly is not a concern. If it was, we wouldn't even be having this discussion and everyone would use Matrix.

                                                  But where I'm coming from here is solving the core issue of the best privacy chat app, which I still argue is Matrix. I would not say it is the best chat app. But again its a matter of what one prioritizes.

                                                  I type things and sometimes those things end up in your browser. 🏳️‍🌈🇮🇷🇨🇦

                                                  R marcusquinn 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                                  • R
                                                    Robin @atridad last edited by

                                                    @atrilahiji Well, you also don't really need to compete with Signal if you can use it as a trojan horse using e.g. https://docs.mau.fi/bridges/python/signal/index.html. Of course, this comes with its own set of challenges: making a good experience with many moving parts is not easy - and bridges are inevitably another moving part, often of questionable quality since they aren't a primary focus.

                                                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                                    • marcusquinn
                                                      marcusquinn @atridad last edited by

                                                      @atrilahiji Yeah, it's a compromise step I feel. Secure enough to be better than ad-tech's conflicts of interest, but still aware that the metadata for who's chatting with whom and when still has some potential value that one wouldn't want to share if given an assured choice.

                                                      Matrix I love the ideals and successes of. Element seems the best of the bunch. So for this audience, certainly the best we have.

                                                      For my entire social circle, well I can't see it happening but would be happy to see otherwise.

                                                      I guess the original point of the post was non-Cloudron specific, and potential for mass-market.

                                                      I guess we have to wait and see what Elon Musk shills next 😂 if Signal's MOB payments sour the new kid capturing mindshare.

                                                      We're not here for a long time - but we are here for a good time :)
                                                      Jersey/UK
                                                      Work & Ecommerce Advice: https://brandlight.org
                                                      Personal & Software Tips: https://marcusquinn.com

                                                      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                      • A
                                                        atupuxi last edited by

                                                        The Very Best Encrypted Messaging Apps:-

                                                        1. Signal
                                                        2. Wickr Me
                                                        3. Dust
                                                        4. WhatsApp
                                                        5. Telegram
                                                        6. Apple iMessage
                                                        7. Facebook Messenger

                                                        App to avoid: Google Hangouts. Despite being available for free on both iOS and Android, Google Hangouts is riddled with privacy and security concerns. Though it does encrypt hangout conversations, it doesn’t use end-to-end encryption — instead, messages are encrypted “in transit”.

                                                        atridad necrevistonnezr 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                        • atridad
                                                          atridad App Dev @atupuxi last edited by

                                                          @atupuxi Good to see Signal on there but WhatsApp and FB Messenger are suspect. I'd probably put something like Matrix (Element) on there. Probably even above Signal since you can't quite self host Signal.

                                                          I type things and sometimes those things end up in your browser. 🏳️‍🌈🇮🇷🇨🇦

                                                          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 4
                                                          • necrevistonnezr
                                                            necrevistonnezr @atupuxi last edited by

                                                            @atupuxi said in Best privacy chat apps:

                                                            The Very Best Encrypted Messaging Apps:-

                                                            1. Signal
                                                            2. Wickr Me
                                                            3. Dust
                                                            4. WhatsApp
                                                            5. Telegram
                                                            6. Apple iMessage
                                                            7. Facebook Messenger

                                                            Wickr was just acquired by Amazon (!) of all companies: https://www.theverge.com/2021/6/25/22550361/amazon-wickr-aws-secure-messaging-encryption

                                                            atridad JOduMonT 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 4
                                                            • atridad
                                                              atridad App Dev @necrevistonnezr last edited by atridad

                                                              @necrevistonnezr IMO I'd remove anything that is owned by big tech OR is closed source from that list. How can we ever ensure a closed source application is secure?

                                                              I type things and sometimes those things end up in your browser. 🏳️‍🌈🇮🇷🇨🇦

                                                              jdaviescoates JOduMonT 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 3
                                                              • jdaviescoates
                                                                jdaviescoates @atridad last edited by

                                                                @atridad said in Best privacy chat apps:

                                                                @necrevistonnezr IMO I'd remove anything that is owned by big tech OR is closed source from that list. How can we ever ensure a closed source application is secure?

                                                                Or in other words, just refer to the great infographic I posted earlier.

                                                                I use Cloudron with Gandi & Hetzner

                                                                atridad 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                                                • atridad
                                                                  atridad App Dev @jdaviescoates last edited by atridad

                                                                  @jdaviescoates This is perfect.

                                                                  IMO with the Spaces beta Matrix (using Element as the client) is very good in terms of usability. I use it with family and friends now and its been effortless.

                                                                  Now we just need Dendrite packaged for a server... unfortunately I know next to nothing about packaging federated apps so I'm hoping someone else will try before I hack something awful together.

                                                                  I type things and sometimes those things end up in your browser. 🏳️‍🌈🇮🇷🇨🇦

                                                                  robi 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                                                  • robi
                                                                    robi @atridad last edited by robi

                                                                    @atridad The example package is there with Matrix server no?

                                                                    Life of Gratitude.
                                                                    Life of Advanced Technology

                                                                    atridad 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                                    • atridad
                                                                      atridad App Dev @robi last edited by

                                                                      @robi Oh I mean we do have the Matrix Synapse server written in python. The team behind Matrix is working on another server called Dendrite written in go.

                                                                      I type things and sometimes those things end up in your browser. 🏳️‍🌈🇮🇷🇨🇦

                                                                      robi 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                                                      • robi
                                                                        robi @atridad last edited by

                                                                        @atridad right, other than the language difference, the 'federation' packaging should be the same, yes?

                                                                        Life of Gratitude.
                                                                        Life of Advanced Technology

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                                                                        • JOduMonT
                                                                          JOduMonT @necrevistonnezr last edited by

                                                                          This post is deleted!
                                                                          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                                          • JOduMonT
                                                                            JOduMonT @atridad last edited by

                                                                            @atridad said in Best privacy chat apps:

                                                                            @necrevistonnezr IMO I'd remove anything that is owned by big tech OR is closed source from that list. How can we ever ensure a closed source application is secure?

                                                                            Personally, I don't like Signal, for it is just another WhatsApp were you could be tracked by GPS/Beacon and meta-data. I saw too much anti-government group using Signal and being intercepted simply by correlating the high level of exchange in Signal (metadata) and movement tracking (GPS).

                                                                            For the fact, saying Close Source is not secure by default, it is simply a point of view. Few companies with whom I work do business with the military and don't want to use anything Open Source because for them Open Source sound full of flaws and weaken their defence.

                                                                            humptydumpty ianhyzy 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                                            • humptydumpty
                                                                              humptydumpty @JOduMonT last edited by humptydumpty

                                                                              @jodumont I read somewhere that the biggest user group of linux is the US military. I'll try to find a source for you. Open source is seen as a positive, not a negative. The military from other nations also use Linux like China and Turkey...

                                                                              https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2013/10/the-navys-newest-warship-is-powered-by-linux/

                                                                              https://www.zdnet.com/article/the-air-forces-secure-linux-distribution/

                                                                              https://mil-oss.org/

                                                                              https://www.fudzilla.com/news/50016-us-military-loves-linux

                                                                              JOduMonT 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                                                              • ianhyzy
                                                                                ianhyzy @JOduMonT last edited by ianhyzy

                                                                                @jodumont SIgnal is by far the most secure digital messaging app usable by normal people at this point and this isn't a controversial point among security folks. No matter app what you use, law enforcement can subpoena your phone's cell tower connection records, among other things(at least in the US).

                                                                                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                                                                • atridad
                                                                                  atridad App Dev last edited by atridad

                                                                                  Yeah... I'd never be inclined to believe that a chat application is secure unless they are willing to reveal all of the source code. I still use some, like discord for instance simply because I have friends I cannot get off of there. Element with their new Spaces feature has made it usable enough for me to recommend to anyone. Maybe I just don't see the issues because I am used to janky UIs? But I think it is very slick and easy to use at this point. But regardless, I don't want to confuse the conversation about what is easy to use with what someone is used to.

                                                                                  I type things and sometimes those things end up in your browser. 🏳️‍🌈🇮🇷🇨🇦

                                                                                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                                                                  • marcusquinn
                                                                                    marcusquinn last edited by marcusquinn

                                                                                    There's another element to choice of communications apps, and that's the democratic vote that it represents as to whether you endorse a company and its ethics or not.

                                                                                    Facebook raises it's value from the number of users and interactions, reduce that and you reduce their value to advertisers and shareholding investors.

                                                                                    Full privacy is almost impossible - but portability and freedom of choice should be encouraged, and even one movement away from a tech giant is a small win against their mindshare domination aspirations the seem to presume in trying to become an essential utility for most.

                                                                                    We're not here for a long time - but we are here for a good time :)
                                                                                    Jersey/UK
                                                                                    Work & Ecommerce Advice: https://brandlight.org
                                                                                    Personal & Software Tips: https://marcusquinn.com

                                                                                    M 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                                                                                    • M
                                                                                      martin @marcusquinn last edited by

                                                                                      @marcusquinn

                                                                                      Thanks; this caused me to think of Mike Masnik's paper emphasizing endorsement of protocols instead of platforms, might perhaps be relevant / interesting.

                                                                                      https://knightcolumbia.org/content/protocols-not-platforms-a-technological-approach-to-free-speech

                                                                                      marcusquinn 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 5
                                                                                      • marcusquinn
                                                                                        marcusquinn @martin last edited by

                                                                                        @martin Yup, also reminds me of the quote to paraphrase; "Bad things happen when good people do nothing."

                                                                                        We're not here for a long time - but we are here for a good time :)
                                                                                        Jersey/UK
                                                                                        Work & Ecommerce Advice: https://brandlight.org
                                                                                        Personal & Software Tips: https://marcusquinn.com

                                                                                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 3
                                                                                        • JOduMonT
                                                                                          JOduMonT @humptydumpty last edited by

                                                                                          @humptydumpty said in Best privacy chat apps:

                                                                                          @jodumont I read somewhere that the biggest user group of linux is the US military. I'll try to find a source for you. Open source is seen as a positive, not a negative. The military from other nations also use Linux like China and Turkey...

                                                                                          I'm sure your right, and I'm fully for OpenSource and choose OpenSource by Default, simply, sometimes, some irrational thought are hard to destroy 🙂

                                                                                          @ianhyzy said in Best privacy chat apps:

                                                                                          @jodumont SIgnal is by far the most secure digital messaging app usable by normal people at this point and this isn't a controversial point among security folks. No matter app what you use, law enforcement can subpoena your phone's cell tower connection records, among other things(at least in the US).

                                                                                          So Imagine in a country run by a King who decided nobody could say anything bad about him, his family and his government 😉

                                                                                          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                                                          • JOduMonT
                                                                                            JOduMonT @humptydumpty last edited by

                                                                                            @humptydumpty said in Best privacy chat apps:

                                                                                            other nations also use Linux like China and Turkey...

                                                                                            French Police also use Linux 😉
                                                                                            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_software_movement#Legislation_and_government

                                                                                            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                                                                            • JOduMonT
                                                                                              JOduMonT last edited by

                                                                                              Just randomly found this via GitHub: https://berty.tech
                                                                                              a privacy-first distributed messaging app.

                                                                                              jdaviescoates 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                                                                              • jdaviescoates
                                                                                                jdaviescoates @JOduMonT last edited by

                                                                                                @jodumont sounds very promising

                                                                                                I use Cloudron with Gandi & Hetzner

                                                                                                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                                                                                • ?
                                                                                                  A Former User last edited by

                                                                                                  "Berty is still under active development and should not be used to exchange important data.

                                                                                                  The current Berty Messenger implementation is not using the Berty Protocol yet, but OrbitDB directly. Which means the encryption is not safe, but the good news is that the current Berty Messenger app is already a P2P one!"

                                                                                                  https://berty.tech/docs/berty/

                                                                                                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 3
                                                                                                  • marcusquinn
                                                                                                    marcusquinn last edited by

                                                                                                    Just stumbled across this, maybe interesting, well reviewed too:

                                                                                                    • https://cointelegraph.com/news/after-launching-dapp-to-rival-whatsapp-blockchain-wants-to-take-on-instagram
                                                                                                    • https://www.jup.io/metis-messenger
                                                                                                    • https://apps.apple.com/us/app/metis/id1564486481

                                                                                                    We're not here for a long time - but we are here for a good time :)
                                                                                                    Jersey/UK
                                                                                                    Work & Ecommerce Advice: https://brandlight.org
                                                                                                    Personal & Software Tips: https://marcusquinn.com

                                                                                                    doodlemania2 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                                                                    • doodlemania2
                                                                                                      doodlemania2 App Dev @marcusquinn last edited by

                                                                                                      yall should also check out Session (getsession.org) it's pretty sweet - a fork of Signal protocol with the backend using the Loki/Oxen network and in the table above, requires zero of the 19 permissions that Signal requires. I personally REALLY enjoy it.

                                                                                                      The downsides are obvious here in the usability department. In order to get to chatting with someone, you HAVE to exchange keys. Signal makes that easier cause they generate QR codes but also integrate with your contacts.

                                                                                                      One thing to note, however, as a plus to Signal, is they use confidential computing on Azure to hide all the contacts processing, which is a really great use of that particular tech.

                                                                                                      marcusquinn 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 4
                                                                                                      • marcusquinn
                                                                                                        marcusquinn @doodlemania2 last edited by marcusquinn

                                                                                                        @doodlemania2 I did give Session a try, kinda felt primitive and like persuading anyone to switch from Signal would be at the expense of losing features for marginal additional privacy.

                                                                                                        get that the metadata with Signal isn't private, and that's annoying, but the main thing for me is avoiding using Facebook/Google products.

                                                                                                        I'm sure Session will continue to evolve, so hopefully they don't lose momentum and have the capability to reach feature parity with the current most popular apps.

                                                                                                        We're not here for a long time - but we are here for a good time :)
                                                                                                        Jersey/UK
                                                                                                        Work & Ecommerce Advice: https://brandlight.org
                                                                                                        Personal & Software Tips: https://marcusquinn.com

                                                                                                        ianhyzy 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 3
                                                                                                        • ianhyzy
                                                                                                          ianhyzy @marcusquinn last edited by

                                                                                                          @marcusquinn yeah, a lot of alternatives to signal look neat but fail at being cross platform or easy for normal people to use

                                                                                                          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                                                                                                          • atridad
                                                                                                            atridad App Dev last edited by

                                                                                                            I've had to ditch Signal. It has been a nightmare to use. Notifications on Android and iOS are both spotty. My mom had missed calls several times because it just never rung for her (I verified this). Also for video calls it occasionally decides speakerphone is not needed, and won't work.

                                                                                                            0/10 somehow Element + Matrix is more usable.

                                                                                                            I type things and sometimes those things end up in your browser. 🏳️‍🌈🇮🇷🇨🇦

                                                                                                            robi 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                                                                                            • robi
                                                                                                              robi @atridad last edited by

                                                                                                              The frequent disconnections from Telegram and Signal are problematic.

                                                                                                              It's like someone is deliberately disconnecting all sessions they can't intercept. Making it a lot less reliable.

                                                                                                              Sometimes video calls are better, and you can always stop video sharing, keeping the voice channel open.

                                                                                                              Same with GVoice calls, frequent drops, despite good networking on both sides.

                                                                                                              One of the better things for longer lasting voice comms is Team Speak. But the lack of availability of free clients on mobile puts that in the 'only at home' category.

                                                                                                              Life of Gratitude.
                                                                                                              Life of Advanced Technology

                                                                                                              rmdes 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                                                                              • rmdes
                                                                                                                rmdes @robi last edited by

                                                                                                                I'v been testing https://cwtch.im/ it's quite interesting, since you can host the server home
                                                                                                                and join other chats/servers or one-to-one over tor

                                                                                                                marcusquinn robi 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 3
                                                                                                                • marcusquinn
                                                                                                                  marcusquinn @rmdes last edited by

                                                                                                                  @rmdes Nice! Looks like the list here has been updated since I last posted it:

                                                                                                                  • https://www.privacytools.io/#messaging

                                                                                                                  We're not here for a long time - but we are here for a good time :)
                                                                                                                  Jersey/UK
                                                                                                                  Work & Ecommerce Advice: https://brandlight.org
                                                                                                                  Personal & Software Tips: https://marcusquinn.com

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                                                                                                                  • robi
                                                                                                                    robi @rmdes last edited by

                                                                                                                    @rmdes sounds like a good app request?

                                                                                                                    Life of Gratitude.
                                                                                                                    Life of Advanced Technology

                                                                                                                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                                                                                    • L
                                                                                                                      LoudLemur @marcusquinn last edited by

                                                                                                                      @marcusquinn

                                                                                                                      Session
                                                                                                                      https://getsession.org
                                                                                                                      Session will soon support video over Lokinet.

                                                                                                                      Berty
                                                                                                                      https://berty.tech/
                                                                                                                      Berty is based on IPFS (Inter Planetary File System), and near release. Keep an eye on it.

                                                                                                                      Cwtch
                                                                                                                      https://cwtch.im/

                                                                                                                      marcusquinn 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                                                                                                                      • marcusquinn
                                                                                                                        marcusquinn @LoudLemur last edited by

                                                                                                                        @LoudLemur Thanks. Session I like, worth a follow: twitter.com/session_app Anyone can DM me for an ID to connect if you want to test anything.

                                                                                                                        Video calls will be the game-changer for that, at least if they can have a comparable quality to FaceTime/Zoom, which are currently the best-of-(non-open-source)-breed in my experience.

                                                                                                                        Berty & Cwtch I need to try, both also sounds very cool.

                                                                                                                        The original point of this post being "Off-topic", was for non self-hosted, or not being dependent on self-hosting. The kinda thing you could give your folks to use and they'd have a low friction experience, and it would work well enough for them to also like and recommend to friends once they were also onboard. (something I still even struggle to convince people that really ought to trust me on, because lazyness & what's the point inertia is a very real thing targeted by the spyware that has become ubiquitous with "social media" and "big tech".

                                                                                                                        We're not here for a long time - but we are here for a good time :)
                                                                                                                        Jersey/UK
                                                                                                                        Work & Ecommerce Advice: https://brandlight.org
                                                                                                                        Personal & Software Tips: https://marcusquinn.com

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                                                                                                                        • marcusquinn
                                                                                                                          marcusquinn last edited by

                                                                                                                          Have created a "Cloudron" Group in Session, for both testing, and off-the-record chat (well, as much as all other members have a record). DM me for my Session ID. It's probably safe to post publicly, but no hurry to find out otherwise from haste 🙂

                                                                                                                          We're not here for a long time - but we are here for a good time :)
                                                                                                                          Jersey/UK
                                                                                                                          Work & Ecommerce Advice: https://brandlight.org
                                                                                                                          Personal & Software Tips: https://marcusquinn.com

                                                                                                                          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 3
                                                                                                                          • marcusquinn
                                                                                                                            marcusquinn last edited by marcusquinn

                                                                                                                            Anyone tried this "Status" app to the above aims? Looks intriguing at least:

                                                                                                                            • https://status.im/
                                                                                                                            • https://status.im/get/
                                                                                                                            • https://cryptonews.com/coins/status/
                                                                                                                            • https://apps.apple.com/us/app/status-private-communication/id1178893006
                                                                                                                            • https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=im.status.ethereum

                                                                                                                            We're not here for a long time - but we are here for a good time :)
                                                                                                                            Jersey/UK
                                                                                                                            Work & Ecommerce Advice: https://brandlight.org
                                                                                                                            Personal & Software Tips: https://marcusquinn.com

                                                                                                                            jdaviescoates 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
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