<![CDATA[Object Storage or Block Storage for backups of growing 60+ GB?]]>I'm debating whether to go with Object Storage or Block Storage. I constantly go back and forth on this this myself and figured I should ask what you guys think.

One one hand, I want to use Object Storage (i.e. Wasabi) because it's somewhat inexpensive and it has unlimited storage. I won't have to frequently battle the "no more space on disk" issues with EXT4. This also allows me to feel comfortable in being able to restore with a different Datacentre or Hosting provider when needed (though this is infrequent). Seems more "reliable" too when from different providers in different data centres during a catastrophe, where-as Block Storage could possibly be corrupt after a Datacentre failure.

On the other hand, I want to use the Block Storage type even though it's a tad more expensive (we're only talking maybe $2-3/month more than object storage) because it's lightening quick compared to Object Storage. A full rsync backup maybe takes 10-15 minutes, where-as the Object Storage (tgz) is over 1.5 hours. This makes me concerned when I want to do things which involve a backup where I want to disable email for example before doing a full system restore on a new server, my downtime should be greatly reduced due to the low latency of Block Storage instead of Object Storage, but does still take time to attach the EXT4 to the new server, etc during that time too.

So this all leads me to wonder... what do you guys use? Are you typically choosing to just do a daily backup to Object Storage even when it takes a long time (60+ GB in size ~ 1.5 hours) or are you using Block Storage instead when you have larger storage sizes to backup?

Would love some insight or maybe some suggestions as I'm sure there's some things I haven't considered too.

]]>https://forum.cloudron.io/topic/7966/object-storage-or-block-storage-for-backups-of-growing-60-gbRSS for NodeSun, 09 Aug 2026 03:37:26 GMTFri, 11 Nov 2022 03:15:53 GMT60<![CDATA[Reply to Object Storage or Block Storage for backups of growing 60+ GB? on Tue, 11 Jul 2023 10:14:16 GMT]]>@LoudLemur I find rsync too slow with zilions of small files. You'd think it would be quicker as incremental, but large compressed files are beating many small files, same for storage space, compressed significantly less storage costs.

]]>https://forum.cloudron.io/post/69990https://forum.cloudron.io/post/69990Tue, 11 Jul 2023 10:14:16 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Object Storage or Block Storage for backups of growing 60+ GB? on Tue, 11 Jul 2023 08:26:54 GMT]]>@d19dotca said in Object Storage or Block Storage for backups of growing 60+ GB?:

Still experimenting. Currently in the middle of a large 60+GB backup to IDrive e2 (using rsync instead of tarball for now) and have to say I'm super impressed with the speeds.

Have you managed to connect idrive to your Cloudron as a volume for storage? How did you manage to do that? Can you do it from within the Cloudron panel?

]]>https://forum.cloudron.io/post/69978https://forum.cloudron.io/post/69978Tue, 11 Jul 2023 08:26:54 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Object Storage or Block Storage for backups of growing 60+ GB? on Tue, 02 May 2023 18:25:15 GMT]]>@marcusquinn I found it was an issue with idrivee2. Moved bucket and backups to another region and all started to work again

]]>https://forum.cloudron.io/post/65934https://forum.cloudron.io/post/65934Tue, 02 May 2023 18:25:15 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Object Storage or Block Storage for backups of growing 60+ GB? on Mon, 01 May 2023 02:48:35 GMT]]>@vansens Still seems to be working. You followed the above settings? (I doubt Rsync will work)

]]>https://forum.cloudron.io/post/65794https://forum.cloudron.io/post/65794Mon, 01 May 2023 02:48:35 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Object Storage or Block Storage for backups of growing 60+ GB? on Sun, 30 Apr 2023 20:23:56 GMT]]>@marcusquinn how happy are you with idrivee2 these days? I started a trial on Thursday and all was working well, but since Friday I am getting errors left right and center. Opened a support call and it's with their back end team. I am waiting for a response from them, hopefully Monday.

]]>https://forum.cloudron.io/post/65789https://forum.cloudron.io/post/65789Sun, 30 Apr 2023 20:23:56 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Object Storage or Block Storage for backups of growing 60+ GB? on Tue, 24 Jan 2023 19:19:24 GMT]]>To confirm on my R&D inspired by this thread. We're happy now with:

  • IDrive on the introduction offer pricing
  • Tarball for the backup method
  • IDrive and Tarball encryption
  • 7 Daily, 4 Weekly, 12 Monthly retention policy
]]>https://forum.cloudron.io/post/60796https://forum.cloudron.io/post/60796Tue, 24 Jan 2023 19:19:24 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Object Storage or Block Storage for backups of growing 60+ GB? on Tue, 10 Jan 2023 02:49:09 GMT]]>@marcusquinn I haven’t noticed that myself but been using tgz the whole time and it’s been quite fast overall so far.

]]>https://forum.cloudron.io/post/59732https://forum.cloudron.io/post/59732Tue, 10 Jan 2023 02:49:09 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Object Storage or Block Storage for backups of growing 60+ GB? on Mon, 09 Jan 2023 22:53:26 GMT]]>Yeah, I'm gonna call this, any backups >100GB or >100,000 files is likely to get impractically slower for most budget S3 storage. Might be worth a note/tooltip in the settings to suggest tarball for Cloudron servers over these numbers.

TBH I think the compression and minimal numbers of files being uploaded, with a sensible retention policy, is going to offset any storage-saving from using rsync. Rsync is a nice idea in theory for smaller directories, but I feel the file count costs are higher than storage costs for local compression and uploading that for each backup run.

]]>https://forum.cloudron.io/post/59726https://forum.cloudron.io/post/59726Mon, 09 Jan 2023 22:53:26 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Object Storage or Block Storage for backups of growing 60+ GB? on Mon, 09 Jan 2023 22:13:29 GMT]]>@marcusquinn yes, that is the more optimal format for object storage, plus incremental diffs.

We discussed elsewhere on the forum a hybrid option inbetween rsync by file and large tgz.

]]>https://forum.cloudron.io/post/59725https://forum.cloudron.io/post/59725Mon, 09 Jan 2023 22:13:29 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Object Storage or Block Storage for backups of growing 60+ GB? on Mon, 09 Jan 2023 22:06:50 GMT]]>Changing strategy to Tarball and that seems to complete in a few minutes. Might just have to be the trade-off for our apps, that have lots and lots of small files. More S3 storage usage but faster to backup and restore, and more self-contained for each backup not relying on files from others.

]]>https://forum.cloudron.io/post/59722https://forum.cloudron.io/post/59722Mon, 09 Jan 2023 22:06:50 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Object Storage or Block Storage for backups of growing 60+ GB? on Mon, 09 Jan 2023 21:15:17 GMT]]>@marcusquinn
idk what tech is behind their stack, but if it is just HDD with no NVMe for caching metadata or any kind of index.
100% that it will be slow if they grow too much.

]]>https://forum.cloudron.io/post/59714https://forum.cloudron.io/post/59714Mon, 09 Jan 2023 21:15:17 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Object Storage or Block Storage for backups of growing 60+ GB? on Mon, 09 Jan 2023 18:48:33 GMT]]>@scooke Maybe, trying their support.

]]>https://forum.cloudron.io/post/59705https://forum.cloudron.io/post/59705Mon, 09 Jan 2023 18:48:33 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Object Storage or Block Storage for backups of growing 60+ GB? on Mon, 09 Jan 2023 16:19:56 GMT]]>@marcusquinn Oh oh... too good to be true?

]]>https://forum.cloudron.io/post/59698https://forum.cloudron.io/post/59698Mon, 09 Jan 2023 16:19:56 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Object Storage or Block Storage for backups of growing 60+ GB? on Mon, 09 Jan 2023 15:23:07 GMT]]>@d19dotca We're noticing some significant slowdowns with IDrive backup uploads now. (We have lots and lots of small files and over 1TB). Just wondering if you'd experienced anything that might seem like throttling?

]]>https://forum.cloudron.io/post/59690https://forum.cloudron.io/post/59690Mon, 09 Jan 2023 15:23:07 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Object Storage or Block Storage for backups of growing 60+ GB? on Thu, 29 Dec 2022 03:35:12 GMT]]>@d19dotca I also noticed an increase in performance. One thing I did notice though - my public buckets were part of the beta and included anonymous root "viewing" of sorts - it generated an XML file of the contents of each public bucket. A quick email to support and they had me turn the bucket to private, then back to public to correct. Something to check if you or someone you love may be an early public bucket adopter there!

]]>https://forum.cloudron.io/post/58796https://forum.cloudron.io/post/58796Thu, 29 Dec 2022 03:35:12 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Object Storage or Block Storage for backups of growing 60+ GB? on Thu, 29 Dec 2022 00:48:21 GMT]]>@robi said in Object Storage or Block Storage for backups of growing 60+ GB?:

It may be related to lower traffic and usage over the end of year holidays.

Entirely possible although I was discussing with them in a support case about the general speed of things and they did say they had recently implemented a change to their service which should speed things up and in my experience it does seem to be improved. 🙂

]]>https://forum.cloudron.io/post/58793https://forum.cloudron.io/post/58793Thu, 29 Dec 2022 00:48:21 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Object Storage or Block Storage for backups of growing 60+ GB? on Wed, 28 Dec 2022 22:28:53 GMT]]>@d19dotca said in Object Storage or Block Storage for backups of growing 60+ GB?:

I noticed before I was seeing it take about 55-75 minutes for a 30+ GB upload in tarball, and now it’s closer to 45-50 minutes for the same

It may be related to lower traffic and usage over the end of year holidays. 🎅

]]>https://forum.cloudron.io/post/58792https://forum.cloudron.io/post/58792Wed, 28 Dec 2022 22:28:53 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Object Storage or Block Storage for backups of growing 60+ GB? on Tue, 27 Dec 2022 22:37:47 GMT]]>FYI, got an email today from IDrive which announced the public buckets for people looking for that, mentioning it here as I know a few people were asking about that feature.

A810A097-7428-4DCE-B973-F657D756AEB8.jpeg

They’ve also made some serious performance tweaks. I noticed before I was seeing it take about 55-75 minutes for a 30+ GB upload in tarball, and now it’s closer to 45-50 minutes for the same size (in fact possibly even larger of a file now to boot as I have a couple more apps deployed now too and email continues to grow larger).

]]>https://forum.cloudron.io/post/58764https://forum.cloudron.io/post/58764Tue, 27 Dec 2022 22:37:47 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Object Storage or Block Storage for backups of growing 60+ GB? on Sun, 27 Nov 2022 13:45:21 GMT]]>@d19dotca Thanks for your R&D sharing on this, just trialing it, and the 1 year deals save a lot of money compared to any other S3, including Wasabi.

Really like the UI/UK, much easier for anyone to work with than Wasabi too, as you don't need to create Policies in JSON like you do with other.

👍 from me, definitely recommended for all home users, and most SME needs too!

@d19dotca said in Object Storage or Block Storage for backups of growing 60+ GB?:

Interesting. I decided to test something with a local Datacentre closer to my VPS called IDrive e2 (seems like a recent s3 competitor from mid-2022 which promises high speeds).

]]>https://forum.cloudron.io/post/57173https://forum.cloudron.io/post/57173Sun, 27 Nov 2022 13:45:21 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Object Storage or Block Storage for backups of growing 60+ GB? on Wed, 16 Nov 2022 17:53:20 GMT]]>@scooke So I heard back from email based support - they turned public buckets on for my account!

]]>https://forum.cloudron.io/post/56277https://forum.cloudron.io/post/56277Wed, 16 Nov 2022 17:53:20 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Object Storage or Block Storage for backups of growing 60+ GB? on Wed, 16 Nov 2022 14:41:14 GMT]]>@scooke let's see what support says.. unless they have a status page where one can see a portion of their services being offline (which provides this public access to a private bucket).

]]>https://forum.cloudron.io/post/56263https://forum.cloudron.io/post/56263Wed, 16 Nov 2022 14:41:14 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Object Storage or Block Storage for backups of growing 60+ GB? on Wed, 16 Nov 2022 13:10:36 GMT]]>@robi I checked most (all non-US ones, 4 US ones) and the Public radio button stayed greyed out.

]]>https://forum.cloudron.io/post/56255https://forum.cloudron.io/post/56255Wed, 16 Nov 2022 13:10:36 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Object Storage or Block Storage for backups of growing 60+ GB? on Wed, 16 Nov 2022 06:31:58 GMT]]>@d19dotca said in Object Storage or Block Storage for backups of growing 60+ GB?:

I’m curious though… is there a way to improve the tarball performance? Why is it so dang slow? I assume concurrency but what prevents concurrency from taking place when using tarball? @staff, any suggestions here? Anything I can do or any specific recommendations?

One idea might be to measure just uploading via other tools to see how much the performance difference is. While the tgz code uploader is slow, it's not substantially slower than native tools (from what I have tested). Try to do a tar cvf - upload of the same data directory as the app to the backup storage and measure.

]]>https://forum.cloudron.io/post/56238https://forum.cloudron.io/post/56238Wed, 16 Nov 2022 06:31:58 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Object Storage or Block Storage for backups of growing 60+ GB? on Tue, 15 Nov 2022 23:41:39 GMT]]>Noticing that tgz of about 35-40 GB GB (well that’s the size after compression, it’s really compressing closer to 60+ GB uncompressed data) and it’s nearly double what it consumes in storage because at least the first backup has that snapshot directory too which is a duplicate of the latest backup. My IDrive e2 bucket shows a total usage of 70 GB currently after one system backup.

I notice if I use rsync the backup times are anywheres between about 20-70 minutes, however when using tgz it’s closer to 120 minutes. That’s about the same performance when using Wasabi and even better than Backblaze in my tests so far.

The downside to rsync is it takes forever to delete so many (tens of thousands of) different files from s3 storage, which means Cloudron cleaning it up or even just me doing it manually to purge older data is a real time sink. Makes me want to use tarballs instead however the upload rate seems to be much less performant. I suppose it is maybe a moot point to some degree because it’d normally be done in the middle of the night when time isn’t really a factor, although it will mess things up for two hours during Cloudron version updates if I (which I would) do system backup prior to that task as the maintenance would be so much longer.

I’m curious though… is there a way to improve the tarball performance? Why is it so dang slow? I assume concurrency but what prevents concurrency from taking place when using tarball? @staff, any suggestions here? Anything I can do or any specific recommendations?

I should note I’ve seen next to zero improvements or changes at all whether I use a part size of 128 MB or 1 GB, doesn’t seem to change anything performance wise.

]]>https://forum.cloudron.io/post/56233https://forum.cloudron.io/post/56233Tue, 15 Nov 2022 23:41:39 GMT