These apps serve different purposes, so I don't think one can really answer the question without knowing the use-case.

My suggestion is if you only care about webmail, then Rainloop wins. It's quicker, nicer interface (IMO), intuitive, etc. If you however also want to manage a calendar and contacts, then SOGo is likely the better one as Rainloop does mail and contacts only, no calendar or anything like that. And even for contacts, it's differently managed - Rainloop simply stores them, but SOGo "hosts" them so they're also accessible via CardDAV protocols into apps like Contacts on macOS or iOS, Calendar on macOS, etc.

Basically, Rainloop is a webmail client whereas SOGo is what's called "groupware" as it will sync contacts, calendars, tasks, etc. in addition to the mail client role.

If you elaborate on your use-case, then people can probably give you a more accurate answer. Hopefully the above helps in the meantime.

@jdaviescoates Great idea! I'd definitely love to be a part of something like that.

What I do:
I do freelance web & tech services as a side business, and that includes hosting a bunch of things for customers which I do on Cloudron. Specifically WordPress websites for roughly 15 clients, and recently even some SFTP servers for one client too. Also a nodeBB forum for a client, Bitwarden password manager, email hosting of course, webmail apps, all that jazz. WordPress and email is the vast majority of what I host for my clients, but I get to dabble in other areas too which I like. Oh and web analytics too of course as that's bundled with my web hosting plan I sell to them, and to my surprise many of them actually really like seeing the emailed report from Matomo where they see all the results from each city, country, dates and times of busy traffic, etc. When I started offering it I honestly didn't think too many people would care, but most of them really like that part. I guess it sort of helps justify to them why they have a website in the first place so they can see how many people they're effectively reaching and such too in one area.

I don't necessarily market my services as a Saas-Cloudron or anything like that, just to be clear in case that's kind of what you were asking earlier, but I am very open in spreading the word of Cloudron (sounds like I'm in a cult, lol) to any of my clients that want to learn more about how I manage things, and even link to Cloudron from my website, so generally the customers that actually care to know that stuff all know I'm using Cloudron as the platform for everything.

Quick side story about the SFTP server I recently setup, just because I think it's really cool, haha:
Using Surfer, I setup an SFTP server to bridge a medical clinic (client of mine) administering COVID-19 tests and the lab they hired to actually process the tests. Before, they were emailing constantly between clinic and lab and it was a hassle for them to keep track of everything... and we later found out that the lab they contracted actually had a script which they use for their larger clients I guess - it polls the SFTP server every 5 minutes for a CSV file which the clinic fills it out and saves to the SFTP server for each patient, each patient being it's own row on the CSV. It's streamlined their entire process now - just that one thing alone - to the point where they get their results much faster now from the lab and can then forward that to the patients much quicker than before as it's way less overhead in communications between the lab and clinic. Once I heard about this and set it up for them and learned how much better it made things for them, honestly I was humbled in a way, I consider myself fortunate to have been a very very very tiny part of that process to ensure people can get their COVID-19 test results sooner. It really wasn't much work on my part at all, Cloudron made it easy to implement! It was still cool to be a part of an improvement to this essential service in my region none-the-less.

Sorry I'm rambling on now, lol, the answer to your original question is "Yes, I offer services to my clients that I host using Cloudron". haha.

As Radicale isn't the most RFC-compliant (they even state that's not their goal), it'd be nice to have a more compliant CardDAV and CalDAV server to use as an alternative to Radicale, SOGo, and Nextcloud.

A good one I have seen recommended often is "sabre/dav". It's also updated more often than Radicale too from what I can tell. I think this would be a great addition for those people who want a more pure CalDAV and CardDAV server.

https://sabre.io/dav/
https://github.com/sabre-io/dav

I just realized from comments on a different thread that you now have yearly/annual pricing which is a generous discount per month. I may have missed the announcement of those pricing changes, not sure when that came into effect but I appreciate it.

As a Canadian who ends up paying even more than the listed price due to currency conversion between USD and CAD, I am very thankful for the chance to have that discount by paying for a year in advance. Of course one has to have the means to be able to justify a year up-front, but I can definitely see myself using this for a year or more at least.

As a result, I have changed my plan from monthly to yearly, and I just wanted to say thank you. This brings down my total cost of ownership (TCO) by quite a bit. This takes me down from roughly $40 CDN to $20 CDN, saving me $20 a month, or $240 over the course of the year.

Anyways, ultimately I really just wanted to say thank you, and hopefully let others know about this too in case it helps them. This was a pleasant surprise to see.

Reference: https://cloudron.io/pricing.html

@girish It's also quicker to do from Cloudron at times depending on the VPS host as well. For example I'm hosted currently at OVH and it's not the nicest control panel, not super mobile friendly either and takes me about 6 clicks to get to the reboot option. Cloudron is only about 2 (login > System).

Happy New Year everybody!

Just learned how to deploy a custom app using Bitwarden as the test, but seeing as it should be delivered soon, figured I'd wait for the more official release. So on that note... is there any ETA yet for this app @girish or @nebulon by any chance? If it's going to be a month or two I may start with the custom app, but figured if it'd be just another week or two (or just less than a month), then I'll just wait it out.

Thanks again for all the work you guys do - including everyone else in this thread, as I was able to learn a lot from reviewing everything you all wrote!

@girish said in How about a Cloudron meet-up in Berlin in 2021?:

Yes! We did it when Kopano meet was getting packaged

Perfect! I'd join if it was online then. Would love to visit Germany someday, but being "at risk" (cystic fibrosis) I ain't travelling out of Canada during this pandemic, especially when insurance won't cover anything like that anymore haha

@p44 That's very strange. It should definitely save to your Sent folder. Did you perhaps have it set to save sent messages in a different folder? On iOS, you can go to Settings > Mail > Accounts > {accountName} > Account > Advanced and in there you can set the Mailbox Behaviours for Drafts, Send, Deleted, and Archive. Make sure it's set to the correct folder. Sometimes there's a difference between "Sent" and "Sent Messages". There are some semantic differences, though usually I find that only affects Junk/Spam folders as there's been previous discussions on those. The rest of them work fine for me but I may have set it up accordingly too back in the day.

The instructions above assume you're using the built-in Apple Mail app.

@girish Side note: can we make the GUI show 12 apps instead of 10? When it's generally 3 or 4 columns, 10 just seems like an odd number to use for displaying the apps on that page. Hopefully that makes sense. Just a side thing though, no worries.

Great topic! It's always fun to peek into people's offices. haha. Here's my home office setup for the moment. Been changing it slowly over the past year. Recently got a new chair I find much more comfortable than my previous one. haha.

@girish This still seems to be an issue. I tried it last night to see if I could reproduce it and sure enough I could. I think this is a bug, unless I'm doing something wrong?

Here's the steps I took (if you want to reproduce it):

1. Create new server
2. Connected via SSH and ran the following commands:
   sudo apt-get update
sudo fdisk /dev/sdb
sudo mkfs.ext4 /dev/sdb1
sudo mkdir /mnt/cloudron-boxdata
sudo mount /dev/sdb1 /mnt/cloudron-boxdata
sudo nano /etc/fstab
sudo wget https://cloudron.io/cloudron-setup
sudo chmod +x ./cloudron-setup
sudo ./cloudron-setup
   (reboot)
   sudo systemctl stop box
sudo systemctl stop docker
DATA_DIR="/mnt/cloudron-boxdata"
sudo mkdir -p "${DATA_DIR}"
sudo mv /home/yellowtent/boxdata "${DATA_DIR}"
sudo ln -s "${DATA_DIR}/boxdata" /home/yellowtent/boxdata
sudo systemctl start docker
sudo systemctl start box
   (reboot, though tried without rebooting here too)
3. Restore Cloudron from backup (in my case located on OVH Object Storage if that part matters at all). It will fail at this part, after a minute or two it will give the error from the screenshot in the comments above around "/home/yellowtent/boxdata is not a valid path"

Can someone please confirm if my steps are invalid or if there's truly a bug here?

@p44 Agreed. It was definitely a bug. It's all fixed now though for 6.2 when it comes out. https://git.cloudron.io/cloudron/box/-/blob/master/setup/start/mysql.cnf#L19

@girish Music to my ears. haha. Thanks Girish!

@imc67 This is easy to do manually in the meantime, but yes I agree it'd be awesome to have this process sort of automated. For me it's mostly just email I focus on that's likely to change between backup and restore, so I do a full system backup and once it gets to the "box" part of the backup I disable the mail container so that it won't receive mail after the backup. Helps a lot. Of course doing this if you have clients relying heavily on email like I do then it means you have to do this in the middle of the night though lol. The ability to automate this process would be awesome.

@p44 Yeah probably. I'm honestly very surprised how many people seemingly haven't run into this issue yet. I guess most using Cloudron are still on Ubuntu 18.04 rather than 20.04, or those on 20.04 have plenty of disk space where it's not a concern at all (unfortunately I don't have that luxury, haha) or they just don't use their Cloudrons nearly as much as some of us do which means they have far less writes to the database thus less binlog entries. Guess it's a "fringe" scenario for now haha but definitely still a valid one that we need to fix. I think the changes coming from Girish & Nebulon will have a great impact on that and prevent issues like I and you were running into where the disk usage goes insane from binlog files. Keeping the binlogs to just 1 or 2 days should be plenty for actively used Cloudron servers.

@danielreyes61 Is "mail.<domain>.<tld>" the actual full domain in the Cloudron Domain section? If not, then I think the issue there is that you're adding in "mail" as a subdomain which likely doesn't exist in the Cloudron Domains section.

@danielreyes61 said in Cloudron email wrong username or password all apps:

so is it username@mail.example.com

Yes, that's correct. Whatever the mailbox and domain is. So a mailbox of user and a domain of example.com would be a combined "username"/login of user@example.com.

@danielreyes61 You might already know this but just in case... when it comes to the webmail apps like SOGo, Roundcube, Rainloop, etc the "username" is actually the full email address of the mailbox, and the password is the user who owns that mailbox.

Some documentation for reference:

• SOGo: https://docs.cloudron.io/apps/sogo/#login
• Roundcube: https://docs.cloudron.io/apps/roundcube/#multi-domain-setup
• Rainloop: https://docs.cloudron.io/apps/rainloop/#multi-domain-setup
• Cloudron Email server: https://docs.cloudron.io/email/#email-client-configuration

@nebulon said in Able to clean up binlog.###### files in /var/lib/mysql directory?:

I guess setting it to something more reasonable for us like a couple of days should be plenty

Exactly, yes. I think it should basically be the minimal number possible / reasonable, especially when a well-used Cloudron like mine seems to generate 1-2 GB of them in just a 24 hour period. If we kept that as 10 days that'd be anywheres from 10 GB to 20 GB which is far too much disk space consumed for that, IMO. I thinking keeping them for just two days would be sufficient, heck even maybe just one day.

@girish Oh yeah that's a good expansion actually, I was in the mindset of Cloudron only backing up to one place, but I think a good feature improvement for the future would be what you just wrote about... multi-location backups. I like that idea.