The main issue with Nextcloud Talk that I see is that it's part of the Nextcloud-as-a-monolith model that they push, for understandable reasons. However, a lot of organizations have serious needs around chat with deeper integrations. For example, Rocket.Chat can enable one-click video conferencing, on top of all the other myriad of features, right there where users already are communicating with each other and with services, bots, and notifications by using either BBB or Jitsi, which is great, and means we don't need to have users switch tools just for video calling. Talk lacks this kind of integration in general, which just makes it tough, and it's (imo) not quite mature and suited as the alternatives described.

Similarly, between BBB and Jitsi, there are lots of options to do more advanced things than just integrate them with another chat client, like embedding those conferences into web pages via Jitsi's API for that or BBB's Wordpress plugin / API or into an LMS like Moodle (also on the wishlist) via plugins (for BBB or Jitsi). Jitsi also has the ability to live stream in addition to record meetings (BBB can also do recording). Basically, if I'm going to spend valuable server resources (and transitively money) to run a video conferencing solution, I want more mileage/"bang for my buck" than Nextcloud meet offers.

I think Talk is a great starting point for anyone with casual interest, limited needs, or just exploring video conferencing as a tool, but once we get to the proverbial big leagues with heavier-duty use cases, it's hugely beneficial to have one of these more fully featured tools. That's also striking at one of the huge advantages of the Cloudron platform - everyone can deploy the right-sized solution for their needs with ease and spend the energy on evaluating and transitioning tools as it's necessary, rather than getting mired in the administrative overhead of operating an existing one.

As a parting thought, I'll add that today I find myself leaning more toward Jitsi than BBB after (finally) a positive experience with an event leveraging the public meet.jit.si and thinking about the live streaming capabilities...frankly, as I've sworn up and down repeatedly in this thread, either would be great. If the hardware demands are too extreme on BBB, then let's go Jitsi. The control and privacy are really the banner features, imo, and both do an excellent job on those core requirements.

With all the activity on this thread, is it likely that Bitwarden will see release in the App Store any time soon? Even as an "unstable" package for easier trial by others?

@girish Looks like accounts is now able to be run self-hosted as well now: https://mozilla-services.readthedocs.io/en/latest/howtos/run-fxa.html

Thinking about it, if there were going to be a bigger, badder SSO solution "baked in" to the platform, keycloak (https://www.keycloak.org) may be the better tool to close some of that gap than Shibboleth for the job (OpenID Connect, OAuth 2.0, and SAML support built-in; similar flexibility on the backend). My main thought in the use case of SSO apps is that SSO as a platform component is, to date, a platform-internal feature, and I think there's a huge benefit to being able to essentially treat Cloudron as your authoritative directory / user store and leverage it for SSO with SaaS and other strictly off-host products.

I have completed an initial packaging for grav - source is up at https://git.cloudron.io/jimcavoli/grav-app
Submitted for review already; happy to Q&A any specifics. Everything works in that packaging, but for now the user management is left to the app (no LDAP/cloudron single-sign-on). Plugin installation through the browser works as expected, but as with most Cloudron apps, you can't use the system-level upgrade button in the browser (it just shows an error if you try) since it'll be updated via the Cloudron image.

@murgero It's a separate product, somewhat integrated, of course, which actually comes in four (seriously?) versions now, Jira Software, Jira Align, Jira Core, and Jira Service Desk. All priced somewhat differently, with slightly different features, views, and reporting for slightly different workflows.

Especially when operating in business environments, I tend to want to force users' primary email address to be their "official" email address and only have it be editable by administrators, as well as ensuring that they keep their actual name set as their name. Currently, there's no way to restrict users to only be able to change their password recovery email address and not the other fields - it would be very useful for these types of deployments if there were settings available to turn off the ability of users to self-edit certain field(s) of their profile.

Rocket.Chat can also integrate with BBB - frankly, I could care less which it is as long as it works better than the freebie jit.si we're trying to use now. I get terrible feedback on that, and hopefully bringing that "in-house" allows for a better experience. That said, I might actually have developed a slight preference toward BBB just because it has more integration points for various LMS as well, both WP plugins that would be useful now and freestanding apps which could be useful in the future.

You know, beggars and choosers, but as I said before, I lean somewhat harder toward BBB as time has gone on, in part for its slightly better-supported integration points, especially for LMS apps. This aside, my practical concerns is being able to self-host conferencing, with privacy (not world-usable to start/create conferences), and have the phone bridge to the system work. I realize it's a lot of work to get these things specifically working, so I'm necessarily fine with either, but I'm curious what the differences in resources required between the two options is. Anyone looking to self-host conferencing to any serious degree should expect to allocate a fair amount of power to such a task, but of course I understand there's tradeoffs.

I have completed an initial packaging for grav - source is up at https://git.cloudron.io/jimcavoli/grav-app
Submitted for review already; happy to Q&A any specifics. Everything works in that packaging, but for now the user management is left to the app (no LDAP/cloudron single-sign-on). Plugin installation through the browser works as expected, but as with most Cloudron apps, you can't use the system-level upgrade button in the browser (it just shows an error if you try) since it'll be updated via the Cloudron image.

@murgero It's a separate product, somewhat integrated, of course, which actually comes in four (seriously?) versions now, Jira Software, Jira Align, Jira Core, and Jira Service Desk. All priced somewhat differently, with slightly different features, views, and reporting for slightly different workflows.

@paulhibbitts Unfortunately the process of app packaging is quite technical, best aimed at developers and ops engineering types - this is covered in the documentation: https://cloudron.io/documentation/custom-apps/tutorial/ - but being on this list and getting upvotes is the best way to get visibility through upvotes to increase the chances of it being done!

https://chevereto.com for those looking for the link

@girish Looks like accounts is now able to be run self-hosted as well now: https://mozilla-services.readthedocs.io/en/latest/howtos/run-fxa.html

The main issue with Nextcloud Talk that I see is that it's part of the Nextcloud-as-a-monolith model that they push, for understandable reasons. However, a lot of organizations have serious needs around chat with deeper integrations. For example, Rocket.Chat can enable one-click video conferencing, on top of all the other myriad of features, right there where users already are communicating with each other and with services, bots, and notifications by using either BBB or Jitsi, which is great, and means we don't need to have users switch tools just for video calling. Talk lacks this kind of integration in general, which just makes it tough, and it's (imo) not quite mature and suited as the alternatives described.

Similarly, between BBB and Jitsi, there are lots of options to do more advanced things than just integrate them with another chat client, like embedding those conferences into web pages via Jitsi's API for that or BBB's Wordpress plugin / API or into an LMS like Moodle (also on the wishlist) via plugins (for BBB or Jitsi). Jitsi also has the ability to live stream in addition to record meetings (BBB can also do recording). Basically, if I'm going to spend valuable server resources (and transitively money) to run a video conferencing solution, I want more mileage/"bang for my buck" than Nextcloud meet offers.

I think Talk is a great starting point for anyone with casual interest, limited needs, or just exploring video conferencing as a tool, but once we get to the proverbial big leagues with heavier-duty use cases, it's hugely beneficial to have one of these more fully featured tools. That's also striking at one of the huge advantages of the Cloudron platform - everyone can deploy the right-sized solution for their needs with ease and spend the energy on evaluating and transitioning tools as it's necessary, rather than getting mired in the administrative overhead of operating an existing one.

As a parting thought, I'll add that today I find myself leaning more toward Jitsi than BBB after (finally) a positive experience with an event leveraging the public meet.jit.si and thinking about the live streaming capabilities...frankly, as I've sworn up and down repeatedly in this thread, either would be great. If the hardware demands are too extreme on BBB, then let's go Jitsi. The control and privacy are really the banner features, imo, and both do an excellent job on those core requirements.

You know, beggars and choosers, but as I said before, I lean somewhat harder toward BBB as time has gone on, in part for its slightly better-supported integration points, especially for LMS apps. This aside, my practical concerns is being able to self-host conferencing, with privacy (not world-usable to start/create conferences), and have the phone bridge to the system work. I realize it's a lot of work to get these things specifically working, so I'm necessarily fine with either, but I'm curious what the differences in resources required between the two options is. Anyone looking to self-host conferencing to any serious degree should expect to allocate a fair amount of power to such a task, but of course I understand there's tradeoffs.

Rocket.Chat can also integrate with BBB - frankly, I could care less which it is as long as it works better than the freebie jit.si we're trying to use now. I get terrible feedback on that, and hopefully bringing that "in-house" allows for a better experience. That said, I might actually have developed a slight preference toward BBB just because it has more integration points for various LMS as well, both WP plugins that would be useful now and freestanding apps which could be useful in the future.

What would be the best first steps to help start the ball rolling on getting even an unstable variant of Akaunting working?

With all the activity on this thread, is it likely that Bitwarden will see release in the App Store any time soon? Even as an "unstable" package for easier trial by others?