I guess lots of people use caprover. I thought I'd try it out because I like fiddling with things. So, I installed. It worked fine. At first. Then, one morning, it wouldn't load. Just a mysterious error message on the Dashboard, "Something bad happened". So, a lengthy dive into the incomprehensible world of troubleshooting Docker began. There's no real answer. So many others with slight variations of what might be my problem. No real authoritative source of Help. Just, try this, try that. Many searchers end up reinstalling everything. I considered the same. Then I wondered when my caprover install would suddenly crap out again, and I'd lose my work. Again. So forget it. No more caprover.

You know what hasn't crapped out? Cloudron. I don't know how the Team does it, but keeping everything working is so worth the Subscription.

Cloudron for the win. Cloudron to the moon. Cloudron rules.

Most of the apps I install on my Cloudron rarely change from their location, or, their initial domain name. The auto-backup feature is fantastic too (I'm using Scaleway).

From time to time I do turn off apps, partly for space reasons, or to make room in RAM while I try out a few other apps. Before doing so, I like to backup just that one app I'm going to turn off. I've then had situations where, after some time has passed, I'll forget if I did back up this or that app, but I have to admit, trying to look up the long convoluted name (which is thankfully possible in Cloudron) and then finding the same in my Scaleway backups, to verify, is tedious enough that I take a chance and don't back up, or I just back up again and thus use up space that wasn't needed.

What would really speed things up for me is if the backups for each app (both individually backed up and when part of a full backup) could include the location (the domain, or a truncated domain) and the name of the app installed. The backup name is already helpful by including the date 2021-03-08-220003-295/app_4145s2c0-hbs57-2g8n-kiw3-2h89si6d82y9_v0.4.0. But, maybe this is just me, keeping track of which domain+app has which long convoluted name is a bit of a hassle. A backup name like 2021-03-08-220003-295/example-com_vikunja_v0.4.0 would make things sooo much easier for me to quickly visually check, verify, and find backups.

I also tend to prune existing backups in my Scaleway buckets by hand, and a naming convention like this would be super helpful for me to be able to immediately see which app is where and has been backed up how many times and when most recently.

NOTE: I've just discovered that in the Backups pane of an apps Dashboard I can download the most recent backup configuration (Download Backup Configuration), and this configuration json file INCLUDES the location in brackets at the end of the filename, like so - app-backup-config-2021-03-09-08-14-31 (subdomain.example.com).json! -Including that location in the backup file name too would be super helpful.

@nebulon If I understand the dynamics introduced by an open source licence like AGPL, someone having the access to the source code, and in fact having the source code, does not make them a "user" of Cloudron. They simply have the software and can install it and do whatever. But when they have problems, as they surely will because of Docker, where will they turn to? Most likely the original creators of the software... and when you and @girish can't help because of other time constraints, I can imagine the complaints and badmouthing that would follow. This would potentially have the effect of Cloudron (the subscription service) getting a bad name, losing customers, and eventually going out of business. So it makes sense to me that you've tightened up the licence so that the amazing user experience can remain intact and manageable.

I am not an open source purist, starting from the fact that I have no control over the VPS I rent on which I run Cloudron. It is, as someone in your chats said, a compromise for a purist. For the rest of us who don't want to pay an opaque behemoth company anything, Cloudron is simply the best. And it has the open source spirit, if not the correct licence on every bit of code. And importantly, the software actually works, a theme that I've repeated a few times on different threads. I applaud the Cloudron team for making decisions to enable them to keep the software open AND working.

As I've been looking for WhatsApp replacements I came across Beeper. Now, it doesnt' actually replace WA; it is however a pretty nifty looking unified chat hq, built on Matrix, and it self-hostable. They even provide a great Ansible playbook over at github - https://github.com/spantaleev/matrix-docker-ansible-deploy.

Just to repeat myself - this doesn't replace any chat services, but it provides a way to use many different chat services in one interface. I've tried things like this back in the day and never really liked it, but for some reason this one looks promising, probably because it's based on Matrix, which is something I'd like to use more anyway, and see wider adoption.

Looks like it is pretty much ready to plug in to Cloudron too, but those with the skillset!

You already have the option to install apps from others in a general sense because of Docker.

I pay for Cloudron not just because it is Docker-based, but because of how easy the devs and admins and owners have made it to use. I think adding unsupported apps to the mix even more will distract from the appeal of Cloudron. The extra apps that are available are there because the app is in the pipeline to being added to the official Cloudron store; they have been/are being worked on by people who like the Cloudron approach and want to add to that, and not to a Docker-experience in general.

The price jump from no-support to support with nethserver is a huge jump from 48€ to 250€! I think Cloudron has a good pricing structure because they have limited what they have to support. To address one of your first points, I left Yunohost exactly because of how many low level quality apps that they have, and all the hassles and problems that approach introduced. I wouldn't want to see Cloudron go that route. I like the line being thick! I am already receiving all that I hope for from Cloudron.

All that being said, I think we already have a pretty good 'community repository' of helpful users and super helpful admins. For anything that I want to do that is beyond what Cloudron offers, I just tinker away on my other VPS.

Yes, and no. I followed Digital Ocean tutorials, and others from different sites, and conceptually there was a lot I didn't understand. This was challenging when something broke and I didn't even know what happened. But over time the tuts made more sense, the terminology was sticking, the concepts became clearer, but the amount of work and time needed to maintain and monitor the server didn't decrease much. The new Ghost works really really nice compared to how it started, and if that is all you will have running on the $5 server then you should be fine. Just always make backups of the Ghost app and assume at some point something will go wonky, or you will even get hacked, and learn from the experience. Restore from a backup and get back at it.

On top of the server though you have domain/DNS issues to understand and maintain. This can be tricky too, but over time it all gets clearer.

That said, using Cloudron is such a treat. Because I tinkered around on my own for awhile, I now better understand what Cloudron is doing, and how and why, and so it makes it that much nicer to use. But if you are starting from zero, then it is still a great way to get your Ghost site up and running. You could always familiarize yourself with webserver things locally while using MAMP or LAMP on Linux or...XAMPP (or whatever the windows version is called); and get used to servers locally with VirtualBox or VMWare and spin up an Ubuntu image and use it as a test server.

I will add that using Cloudron to run a Ghost app is advantageous in that you will also have the option for the built-in email server, and the option to install other apps that use Apache rather than nginx, or for that matter, php instead of nodejs; I still find it challenging to run php apps that would usually run well under Apache on an nginx server if the main app is a Ghost app, and vice versa, getting a Ghost app to run under Apache so that the other php apps can remain undisturbed. Cloudron makes this mixing of apps seamless.

Last week I was about to ask anyone their recommendations for an audio app. A quick search of the forums didn't turn up anything specific. So, I thought I'd install the 4 above and give them a try, and report back.

I did not try Jellyfin this time as I had previously tried it out on my cloudron and it slowed everything down (about 6 months ago?). Who knows if its better now; I just want something that works.

That is the gist of my requirements: Does it work? Can I install it, and then move my music into it, and play it, with minimal hassle. Features weren't necessarily the most important. Here is what I found.

• Ampache: I was actually looking forward to this being the winner. I've known about it for a long time, and was excited to see what it could do. Alas, despite several tries, and even checking out a few posts on the forums here, I could never just upload my 31 files (30 songs and a playlist file) and get them to play. I couldn't even get them to appear in the library! Sure, more troubleshooting may have solved the problem. But, my criteria was not, "Which app will take up the most time troubleshooting and consequently result in the greatest satisfaction that I persevered and made it work." So I turned off Ampache.

• Emby: This one seemed promising. The First Time Usage clearly showed me where to place my files. Like Ampache, I made sure the files were owned properly. I uploaded my 31 files... but they also never appeared in the Emby dashboard. Give me a break. Why should this be so hard? Sure, there is probably some "trick" to get this to work, but I'm not looking to become a magician just for my music.

• Koel: Cool logo. Cool history. Seems less cluttered than the previous two... maybe this would be the one. Like Emby, I could see where the files are supposed to go. I put them there. Unlike Ampache and Emby, I could actually see my individual songs. BUT, they weren't playable per album! Surely not?! But yes, even though there was a view for Album, I never figured out how to play one entire album. I could have made a playlist, but hello, I'm pretty sure Play by Album is a thing in the music app world. I did not have time for this. So, I turned off Koel. Bye bye slick interface. I just want to install an app, upload my music, and play it (by album). Is this so hard??

• Navidrome: The last contender. For some reason I kept thinking of Mel Gibson and Tina Turner in their seminal Mad Max movie, Beyond the Navidrome. I was expecting yet another battle, in a navidrome, to get my music uploaded, visible, and then playable (by album). I installed it, read the First Time Use, uploaded the music, fixed ownership, started a rescan in the app, and what do you know... there was my music. I could view the 30 songs in various ways. When I wanted to play the entire album I just clicked on the recognized playlist file, then pressed PLAY and all the songs played! Hallelujah! Navidrome was the winner. Everything just worked. I listened to my music for hours. I will be uninstalling the other three and sticking with Navidrome.

NOTE. I did this a few days ago. I have quit my browser, obviously, and just went back to my navidrome install to resume my music heaven... but it was asking me to (re)make an admin account? What? I already did that, it was already working. Fortunately there is a solution in the Cloudron forums, and I had to login with an incognito window, but, it was all there and it was all working.

I should also add, to be as clear as possible, that "Play by Album" actually doesn't seem to be a feature in Navidrome. At least, not the way I arranged my album. My album is a collection of songs downloaded from an auto-generated YouTube playlist using 4K Video Downloader. 4K includes an option to generate a m3u file when downloading a playlist. So it was this m3u file that Navidrome recognized and displayed, and let me play my "album". Since I get most of my music these days in a similar way, the m3u file recognition was the best part of Navidrome.

As I mentioned, this wasn't a feature comparison, so I don't intend to insult or disparage any die-hard users of the other apps here, nor denigrate the creaters. I just simply wanted to install the app, upload the music, and play it. In this respect, on my setup, using minimal troubleshooting, only Navidrome met my expectations. You may have better luck with your installations; your own Navidrome install might not work! But if you too are looking for a music app that just gets installed, and gets playing your music, I suggest Navidrome.

Finally, no more "Unread"s. Have a good sleep everyone!

@seeker Just be sure to take advantage of the auto-backup feature of Cloudron, and you'll be fine. One of my backup destinations is the free tier of Scaleway Object Storage, where you get 75GB free.

Plus, every now and then, pay for a cheap VPS for a few dollars a month for just the month, install cloudron on it, use a spare domain, and practice restoring from the backup. Then if something really goes wrong your panic level will be lower since you know how to restore from a backup.

I love Cloudron. I love the increasing number of apps offered. But will there eventually be too many for the Cloudron team to manage? I'd hate to see Support quality, or quality in general, decrease just for quantity. If there is to be a limit, how will it be determined? By install number? By usage? By active maintenance by the git repository/project owners (not Cloudron)?

@murgero It may not be for risk-aversion, but more that the person is providing a service without telling the customers that it is Cloudron (I'm not judging here, just postulating). So if customers could see that it was a Cloudron, and how simple it is, hey... they might skip the provider and use Cloudron themselves!

@girish I haven't done the steps you suggested yet, I just reverted back to my Scaleway backups. But I will try again shortly. Thanks for checking in.

I started with one domain at webfaction com, years ago. It was a good start for me. Now, I have 40 domains spread out over 4 registrars, on 6 different hosts. I was going crazy trying to keep track of where a given domain was being hosted, and with which registrar it was bought from, and most importantly, when do I need to renew it!? Yes, it's a crazy hobby!

I tried an Excel spreadsheet, but it was clunky, and the file would get misplaced when I would clean up. I tried a mindmap, using nodes as a Domain Registrar and connecting domains under that registrar in their own bubbles. But that wasn't easy to then add the hosts (including their IP), nor was there an easy way to include their due date that could notify me if it was due.

If only I could find something that I could look at a glance to see where the domain is, when it expires, and with which registar. And maybe even include some additional info and notes about what I've done with it.

Then, I found Vikunja on the Cloudron store. Hmmm, a project management app. With Tasks, Lists, Labels, due dates, color coding, and the visual that ties it all together - Kanban boards! Here is what I've done.

I made Labels and color-coded them. The Labels cover every possible detail: Registrar, Host, IP, software, status. So, there are color-coded Labels for each registrar, and each VPS host. IPs are color-coded to the VPS. For example, I have a Label, "NameCheap", which is orange (using the html code for the main color on their website), and another Label, "SSDNodes", which is a green-ish color, as examples.

Next, I made a Namespace and called it MAIN. So, in the sidebar of Vikunja this Namespace appears at the top for quick access. Then I made a List called Domains (it retrospect another, more general name would work better). So, when I open Vikunja, I can see MAIN, and under it the first List, "Domains". When I click on Domains it opens in Kanban view.

Under MAIN-> Domains-> are another set of lists. Now, I made these Lists using Kanban view so that I could visually, at-a-glance, see the info. Each List is the name of VPS and its IP.

Under each List (Main->Domains-VPS+IP) are the Tasks. And each Task is simply the domain name. Using the previously set up Labels, I can make a Task, example.com, add an orange Label so I can easily see it is with NameCheap, and also (because this is a PM app) add a Due Date. The Due Date is, of course, the expiry date of the domain, and acts as a reminder for me. In the Kanban view I can see thus the List of VPS and which domains I'm hosting on it, along with small text saying "Due in 3 months", or, "Due in 1 week", helping me keep track of their expiry/renewal dates.

So, under the Namespace, Main, I can see in Kanban view all the VPSs I have, and at glance see how many domains are on each one. Because it is in Kanban view I have to scroll horizontally to see all the Lists of the VPS with their Tasks (domains), but as I said, it is so nice to be able to do this at-a-glance.

Some other benefits are that each Task has a place for Description and Comments. These are super handy for noting down what the purpose or goal of a domain was, and what software I've installed on it, along with other details.

Now, I still needed a way to keep track of the VPS service renewals, so I made another Namespace, called it Servers, and made a List for each host. Because a List doesn't have a Due Date assigned to it, under each List I made a Task with basically the same name, but here I could include the Due Date of the service renewal. And again, in Kanban view, I can see, with just a few clicks, when that VPS will expire.

One final need was to be able to see, at-a-glance, how many, and which, domains I have with the Registrars. I have them each as a Label, and a Task under each host List under the Main namespace, but it wasn't convenient counting how many orange Labels I could see to have a quick idea of how many domains I have with NameCheap.

So, I made one more Namespace and called it "Domain Hosts", and under this Namespace made a List for each Registrar, and used the same HTML code to color-code it (from the initial Labels), and under each List was able to show the related domains. But HOW? I was worried I'd have to make another whole list of Tasks using the names of the domains, but that would get messy. Thankfully, Vikunja allows something called "Task Relations". So, to repeat myself, I made a Namespace, and under that made a List for each Registrar, and under each List made 1 Task called basically the same as the List (So the List is "NameCheap" and the first and only Task is called "NameCheap List"), and then under that 1 Task I could "Add Task Relation". This would show a text box which would automatically find the domain name in question as I typed it, and then I could choose SubTask. Now, when I look at the Domain Hosts->NameCheap->NameCheap List-Domains (as Subtask).

This was a lengthy read, but I hope it can help you if you need help with your own records management. Vikunja has a mobile app too, which has come in handy if I'm not in front of the laptop and need to make a note or check a detail.

@luckow At the least, I possibly confirmed that even with a plugin installed this option has been turned off, probably by the built-in LDAP feature.

@wexlerj That is a huge jump... 15 -> 18. I fear your request might be beyond what can be offered here. I've been through the same myself and in the end I always just get an external disk, back up all my data, and then just start fresh with 18.04. That will probably be quickest and easiest for you.

So the new install using "Only allow the following users and groups" (I chose myself) finished, and I can confirm that without doing anything else, going straight to the Manage authentication window and clicking on the eye does nothing. So I've downloaded the plugin and am uploading it.

Once uploaded you still need to click the blue "Install plugin from the ZIP file".

It gets validated.

One more time, gotta click the blue button again to start the install.

There's yet another lengthy check to make sure it will work.
Then click that blue Continue button.

Which then loads the next window with so many potential buttons I didn't know what to do!

The buttons that seemed to respond were "Cancel this installation" (I won't), "Reload", but that seems redundant, so I picked "Upgrade Moodle database now", assuming that meant the plugin was installed and now Moodle needed to cement the new addition.

The next message was a positive one, but I would not have said I was "upgrading" anything, especially since the terminology up to this point had to do with "installing". But I guess Moodle is upgrade since it has a new plugin. I clicked on Continue.

This brought me to a page to set up Email-based self-registration. I left everything as-is... but I bet I still need to go to the original dashboard and click that eye. Let's see.... Strangely enough it brought me to the Notifications window.

Annnndd... clicking the eye results in nothing still! Well, so much for all this screenshotting and pasting.

I suspect it is because Cloudron has installed it already to be managed by it's own User management.

Enjoy the pics. Sorry I couldn't help more.

@luckow Have you installed the plugin yet? It may seem like just clicking the eye might initiate some background installation process, but in fact you need to install the various plugins you want, first. Even Moodle's own documentation is worded in such a way that it sounds like it will "just work".

In Dashboard / Site administration / Plugins is a section to "Install plugins".

Clicking that will bring you to Dashboard / Site administration / Plugins / Install plugins.

You can click the greyed box to go to the Moodle plugins directory, and that will just bring you to a page where you need to download the plugin zip. You then need to go back to that plugin installer pane and choose "Install plugin from ZIP file" and then find the zip you just downloaded.

Then you should be able to click that eye icon and activate it.

If you knew all this, and did all this, please forgive me. These steps might help someone else. If you did, and it doesn't work, then consider this:

I just tried an installation and chose "Allow all users from this Cloudron", and the installation hung, with the log telling that some thing in the database already existed, and then it would restart trying to install.

Soooo. I tried choosing the other option, "Only allow the following users and groups", and what do you know, the installation went off without a problem. It is taking awhile actually, so I will post this in the meantime.

@nebulon Solved! Thanks for your time. Hopefully this doesn't repeat for others. If it does, I suppose a simple reinstall is in order.

@scooke Figures. Now it did work.

I still think something is wonky. I'm not the first one to not be able to login with the admin user... then can.

FWIW, I had deleted the intial install using taiga.example.com, and then reinstalled with the same domain. It of course logged in right away. And because I could login with the admin user, I checked out the Users list and could see that my Cloudron user was not in the list (but 4 other users were, Github, Bitbucket, etc.) I didn't try making a project, though I was logged in, until the admin added me.

@nebulon You know, that might it, though I tried Taiga literally years ago. Could that password have been retained all this time?? I used a similar domain.

Anyway, I confirm that using the "Leave user management to the app" option allowed the admin user to login, add a user, and then that user could login, make a project, etc.

I am going to try the former again, because it did not work at all.