The Cloudron User Repository - CUR

The what?
CUR is deviated from AUR - Arch User Repository

AUR is awesome and makes it very easy for Arch Linux Users to install software from other users.

In similar fashion I would love such a feature in Cloudron.
I packaged:

• Greenlight
• Valheim Dedicated Server
• FiveM GTA V Multiplayer Server

From my 3 packaged apps only Greenlight made it into the app-store. Yet!
Why did Valheim and FiveM did not make it?
Simply put, the lack of users testing the app and reporting back.

Does Cloudron need an CUR?

Arch Linux is loved for the AUR and I am sure that CUR would also have this effect for Cloudron.
I believe many users do not test apps since they are used to the app-store and even the thought of touching the shell to install a community app with the cloudron-cli is very spooky to the targeted end-user of cloudron.
Especially on productive systems doing such thing is a no-go, since you want stable prod which does not fail you.

Now imagine a CUR.
With a simple click in the setting you can enable the CUR and can install a community app to test and give feedback.

This would decrease the barrier for end-users and @appdev(s).

This could also decrease work for maintaining apps if they stay community apps and are not suited for the general Cloudron app-store.
CUR should be excluded from Cloudron Support for obvious reasons.

I would love to get some thoughts on this.

Cheers,
Elias

(ps: I am aware of many side effects of AUR/CUR and stale unmaintained packages, but AUR still rocks )

https://store.steampowered.com/app/892970/Valheim/

This game got recently released on steam and hit quite the trend.

https://steamdb.info/app/892970/graphs/

Having this server as an app would be nice.

And the work is already done!

https://git.cloudron.io/BrutalBirdie/valheim-gameserver-app

Needs some fine work with doc, screenshots and all.

But it's live and running at https://valheim.deadsec.net/

@uiguy okay lets start

@uiguy said in How to Take Cloudron Even Further:

I appreciate that there is the package maintenance aspect, but from what I have seen about the support structure, there seem to only be 2/3 guys supporting the maintenance... how can this be enough to support an entire app ecosystem

Everyone having the APP DEV to their name is a Cloudron App Developer, so in extend a supporter of the ecosystem.
For example I am the maintenance guy of the Greenlight app.
My job circles around Greenlight and BigBlueButton as well. So its in my own best interest to provide updates which just works without any hustle since I have a lot of Greenlights running for customers and doing something that does NOT work effects my own work

Another example would be Dolibarr from @erics who is a developer of Dolibarr.

@uiguy said in How to Take Cloudron Even Further:

I am battling to see why we would rely on cloudron and the associated app store is quite limited as opposed to something like running docker direct?

Reliability and Repeatable.
I have restored multible Cloudrons from full backups, single app backups and literally never had it fail me.
Having the option to roll back to the previous version with 1-Click. What a dream!
Not to mention the package / backup policy to minimize the backup footprint.
For example my self maintained Valheim Gameserver App where we discuss about what is backup worthy.

Having the option to sync Cloudron to an external LDAP also just adds another cherry on top.
Having multible Cloudrons synced to a central LDAP. Sweet.
User und Customer management from 1 place deployed to X Servers with Groups and Permissions.

@uiguy said in How to Take Cloudron Even Further:

I guess, what I am in need of, is some education as to why I would advise we invest in cloudron when we could simply deploy docker with something like portainer and watchtower for package maintenance?

I don't mean to sound negative at all, but I simply want to understand what the value proposition is, especially if I have to compare the available packages on docker vs cloudron?

That is the best part, you don't have to!
You can make your own app, you are NOT limited.
The so called gilded cage with Cloudron is the knowledge you wish to have about the system.
Gitlab of every app https://git.cloudron.io/cloudron

There is more which I could mention, but these are just some thoughts of mine.
Check out this topic where people tell what are your favourite things features about cloudron

https://github.com/ViViDboarder/vaultwarden_ldap

https://github.com/dani-garcia/vaultwarden/wiki/Syncing-users-from-LDAP

Since the Vaultwarden app right now has its own user management it would be nice to also have the LDAP functionality here as well.

@jdaviescoates Not directly
I am not hired by Cloudron but working with them very close.

@scooke

I will try to make it very short and understandable
Example from Greenlight => https://git.cloudron.io/cloudron/greenlight-app

git clone ssh://git@git.cloudron.io:6000/cloudron/greenlight-app.git
cd greenlight-app
docker build --file Dockerfile --target dr.cloudron.dev/org.bigbluebutton.greenlight.cloudronapp:1.0.20 .
docker push dr.cloudron.dev/org.bigbluebutton.greenlight.cloudronapp:1.0.20

Now if you view your Cloudron Docker Registry you should see your pushed docker image.

In this screenshot you can see docker images build by cloudron build by the cloudron build service with automated tags, that's why they seem a bit cryptic.

Now make sure you have setup your docker registry to be used in your Cloudron Server.
https://my.domain.tld/#/settings => Private Docker Registry

Now you should be able to install:

cloudron install --location test --image dr.cloudron.dev/org.bigbluebutton.greenlight.cloudronapp:1.0.20

App is being installed.

 => Queued
 => Registering subdomains
 => Registering location: test.cloudron.dev.......
 => Downloading image ..
 => Creating container
 => Waiting for DNS propagation ...
 => Wait for health check .......................

App is installed.

Cheers

Explaining some stuff you asked.

IF SO, then at what point do I push all this my Cloudron's Docker registry??? After the clone? Before the Build? After the Build? After the Install? And, regardless of the answer to that, once I've pushed the image to my own Docker repository... what's the point? It seems like all the work is done on the Ubuntu VM, in the cloned repository. And to then update... I need to pull from @nj's original Github repository, right?? To anyone brave enough to try to help me, thank you.

I hope my confusion is clear! I'm asking all this before doing anything else other than the initial clone from @nj's Github repository so that I understand it all well and can avoid missing some crucial step

You cant push / publish anything if you don't build it first.

what's the point

well.. your cloudron server can't just download the docker image from your local computer.

1. Community behind Cloudron (Devs / Forum / Community)
2. click restore / backups ! reliable backups !
3. LDAP Integration

Also who is the Cloudron "Team"?
Yes there is the "Staff" @staff @girish @nebulon and myself.
(btw. I do not have admin permissions here I just help out where I can since I work with Cloudron every day)

BUT! Big BUT imho the @appdev guys and every active cloudron user here in the forum is part of the "Team".
(edit: Sorry! @translator you guys are equally important! )

As expressed before:
https://forum.cloudron.io/topic/4594/how-to-take-cloudron-even-further/9

I believe the Community (you guys!) behind Cloudron is part of the Team.
Why else would everything be discussed and displayed so open here

I love posting my own mistakes and point out issues of Cloudron it self even tho I carry the 'staff' badge since I strongly believe this only shows you guys, that we care and are open to errors.
Since ignoring and hiding them does not improve them.

https://forum.cloudron.io/topic/6529/shooting-a-cloudron-server-right-in-the-brain-i-deleted-appsdata-and-boxdata-by-accident

@jlx89 I think this is what you are looking for.

https://docs.cloudron.io/backups/#import-app-backup

I can understand the wish for a chat, but I agree with @nebulon and everyone else endorsing the official forum.

Having the conversation in the official forum has many benefits.

Lets just switch into the mindset of a new Cloudron user / developer.

Just as an example:

• I need the lamp app but with php 5.X.
• Why is there no php 5 lamp app?
• How can I create a custom php 5 app?

What do most people do? They will type that question into a search engine.

Chat vs. Forum

If this discussion would take place in the chat, there would be no way for a new user to find public and easy access to that information about this issue/question.
How should they know they need to go threw a chat with X people talking about all different kind of topics.
Also you lock this information behind a software like matrix, rocketchat, slack, matermost yada yada.

New users want answers which are accessible without needing to sign up for anything.

Compared to an open discussion in the forum, which will be scraped by search engines and will be publicly available with no need to sign up or do anything to access this information.

IMHO chat is nice, but when using one there has to be a policy where findings and solutions must be also published in this forum.
And enforcing such a policy or even establish such will be hard.

That's just what I have in mind about a chat.

Cheers

@Jenova
I downloaded the default openvpn file from my cloudron vpn app (I did not change any settings in the app) and then added these 3 lines to the ovpn file to force my dns server...

dhcp-option DNS ~IP OF MY SERVER~
register-dns
block-outside-dns

@girish Hmm I did not even consider looking there, since I did not look into the app which ui is used

Since there are more option that could be used via variables maybe include an .env file which gets dynamically loaded on the start.
Similar to what I did with greenlight.

@girish there is no delete button.

@BrutalBirdie said in No delete option for repo or tag ??:

Maybe we could add that to the docs.

Created a PR for that information.
https://git.cloudron.io/cloudron/docs/-/merge_requests/39
@staff

@timconsidine

@timconsidine said in No delete option for repo or tag ??:

Is it correct understanding that it's automatically private because it's in my private registry ?
i.e. someone would need to log in to the registry to see images and download them

Exactly.
If you choose the cloudron user management, then a login is needed to access the whole registry.
No sure if there is an option for per-user repositorys (That would be a separate topic tho)

@timconsidine you can use the file manager and just delete the folder

Example, I wish to delete the com.odoo.cloudronapp repo from the registry.
I just delete /app/data/storage/docker/registry/v2/repositories/com.odoo.cloudronapp.
Rest will be handled by the garbage collector.
https://docs.cloudron.io/apps/docker-registry/

@timconsidine said in No delete option for repo or tag ??:

Nervous to ask because probably revealing my stupidity.

Nah all good. Never be afraid to ask questions.
How should one know how to handle this task if one never hosted a docker registry.
I would also expect a delete button with all the option you get with cloudron

Maybe we could add that to the docs.

@qwinter said in Nodebb reported to be buggy. Not having control over cloudron's release pace could be a problem!:

This brings me to the topic: do we get the latest version of everything (within reason)?

If a Software provider releases a public stable release, it is expected to be stable!
But if that is not the case you really can't blame the one deploying it (In this case Cloudron).
If a release is still buggy it should be a release candidate and not be published.
(Not counting in plugins!)

@qwinter said in Nodebb reported to be buggy. Not having control over cloudron's release pace could be a problem!:

Is anyone tracking whether that version is reportedly buggy?

Given the scope of all the apps cloudron has and the limited amount of resources we have, there are lifecycle tests for each app.
https://git.cloudron.io/cloudron/nodebb-app/-/blob/master/test/test.js
These tests can always be improved since the scope of testing can be quite huge.
For example, we can't test each existing plugin for NodeBB, Discourse, Nextcloud yada yada since the room for errors will increase exponentially with each extra plugin.

@qwinter said in Nodebb reported to be buggy. Not having control over cloudron's release pace could be a problem!:

We self-hosters probably cannot afford a devops person (let alone team). If a new version of an app gets published to cloudron, and borks a public production site, there's absolutely nothing we can do other than revert to a backup. This situation makes me uneasy. I want to have peace of mind more than I want to be independent and self-hosting!

If the lifecycle tests is successful we would consider it ready to go.

However, what you are describing could be solved.
Disable automatic updates for apps which you deem production necessary, which are not allowed to break. ever! aka. never change a running system.

You can always clone an app and test the update yourself on the cloned version before upgrading the production one.
But this is one of the points which I don't want to do with cloudron and I am happy not to have to do.

@qwinter said in Nodebb reported to be buggy. Not having control over cloudron's release pace could be a problem!:

Anyone thinking the same? What's your take? How much of your week goes to babysitting things that break with updates when you self host (even with cloudron)? I'm starting to feel this could be an uncomfortably high number.

Little to none when it comes to cloudron.
My latest 30 minutes of 'babysitting' was my private cloudron which I thought crashed. But no, the mainboard of the server simply died and the tech crew in the datacenter switched it out in less in 10 Minutes after my support call and mail.

Here is a screenshot of one my main cloudrons availability report for my company with all internal tools for this year so far.

1 = Up and Running and 0 = Down
And all the downtimes you can see there are from scheduled security reboots.
I could click together a graph for that with the linked trigger which reports a needed reboot, I am lazy now.

I also have graphs of each docker container in cloudron, like cpu/ram/disk i/o, exit codes, network i/o yada YADA.
I am monitoring everything from hardware level components to software level services.

For me, if a Cloudron Server sends out notifications to me that something is not right, then something is really not right.

Oh wow?
For some reason the /app/data/config/production-linux.json reset I guess and the documented part https://docs.cloudron.io/apps/onlyoffice/ for the secret got reset to changeme I put in my old secret which I had in nextcloud, restarted the onlyoffice app now its working again.

@Ropyro I am on com.onlyoffice.coudronapp@1.11.0 cloudron version v7.1.4 still same error.

@BrutalBirdie Oh I just tried to use it as well and get this error: