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  2. Rocket.Chat
  3. RocketChat requires version 6.7 for app support but in back end we have Rocket.Chat 6.3.2

RocketChat requires version 6.7 for app support but in back end we have Rocket.Chat 6.3.2

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  • foliovisionF Offline
    foliovisionF Offline
    foliovision
    wrote on last edited by girish
    #1

    Hi @nebulon ,

    I hope springtime is treating you and @girish well.

    RocketChat requires version 6.7 for app support but in back end we have Rocket.Chat 6.3.2 in our Cloudron. This is with Automatic Updates enabled and even after a check for manual updates.

    Is there something wrong with our Cloudron that it doesn't get the latest RocketChat versions?

    Making the web work for you, Alec

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    • nebulonN Offline
      nebulonN Offline
      nebulon
      Staff
      wrote on last edited by
      #2

      Not sure what you mean with "app support" in that context, however the latest Cloudron package for RocketChat contains 6.7.2. You need Cloudron 7.2.0 at least for this.

      Can you install a fresh RocketChat on the latest version?

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      • nebulonN nebulon marked this topic as a question on
      • girishG Offline
        girishG Offline
        girish
        Staff
        wrote on last edited by
        #3

        Maybe @foliovision means the rocket.chat apps ? https://docs.rocket.chat/extend-rocket.chat-capabilities/rocket.chat-marketplace

        If so, I think @foliovision is saying that their Rocket.Chat instance is not updating. What Cloudron version are you on @foliovision ? It will be in the Settings page.

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        • foliovisionF Offline
          foliovisionF Offline
          foliovision
          wrote on last edited by
          #4

          @girish yes, you've hit the nail on the head. Since our Digital Ocean droplet Cloudron instance was on Ubuntu 18 LTS, very little was still updating.

          We had quite a bit of trouble updating to Ubuntu 20 LTS (we didn't do the reinstall as recommended and Martin is still running around after MongoDB issues). What seems to be missing here would be:

          1. notifications to tell the Cloudron owner/admins that updates are blocked by the version of the server
          2. better integrated updates. We chose Cloudron as we don't want to administer these servers. Ideally Cloudron would update the core server and not require a full reinstall.

          That said, we'll probably limp along under Ubuntu 20 LTS (not sure what's broken on Ubuntu 20, or rather blocked from updates, if you could send me to a list that would be great) until you and @nebulon have Cloudron 8 and Ubuntu 24 LTS under control (there will be teething pains, none of the improvements seem critical to us, we'd like the global email to be rolled back a bit, as with our complete fiasco on InvoiceNinja which still causes pain, constantly checking to make sure you haven't borked our email settings again and we have our hands full with our own open source software FV Player and other WordPress plugins to improve).

          Anyway we'll move to Ubuntu 24/Cloudron 8 at some point and hopefully we'll enjoy four years of stability without blocked updates.

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          • foliovisionF Offline
            foliovisionF Offline
            foliovision
            wrote on last edited by
            #5

            What's another huge nuisance is that I am required to update Rocket.Chat about 25x to get from 6.3.2 to 6.7.x. I understand that you like to force updates one .1 version at a time to avoid update issues, but for more popular apps, it would make sense to test and allow bigger update jumps, between major versions for instance. I'm also not sure if it's absolutely necessary to go from say 6.4.0 to 6.4.9 in ten steps.

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            • girishG Offline
              girishG Offline
              girish
              Staff
              wrote on last edited by
              #6

              @foliovision yeah, with you about distro upgrades. But there is no way to automate distro updates without total control of the hardware and deployment infrastructure (iow, managed service). I wish VPS providers provided this as a service since they are best positioned to do this but they don't. In fact, Digital Ocean has completely broken Ubuntu 18 -> 20 distro upgrade already.

              foliovisionF 1 Reply Last reply
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              • girishG Offline
                girishG Offline
                girish
                Staff
                wrote on last edited by
                #7

                As for the "jump to latest" for apps, a workaround is to have an automatic update schedule of every hour or something and just let the updater do it's work in the background. It will catch up in a day or two.

                We only support rolling releases because we don't track the development of each upstream app (it's too much work and not much value really). I think to have app specific updating logic, one has to be involved in upstream app development entirely and understand all the consequences of jumping versions. Many apps don't adhere to semver, most have no tests for testing updates. In the past, we have had issues even when jumping patch releases and this is why we don't skip any patch release on Cloudron side for any app.

                Finally, if you are feeling brave :-), you can always do cloudron update --appstore-id appstoreid@package-version using the CLI tool to jump releases. We do this for testing primarily and as mentioned we have no idea what happens when you jump releases since it's not tested by anyone (app authors or by us the packagers).

                foliovisionF 1 Reply Last reply
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                • girishG girish

                  @foliovision yeah, with you about distro upgrades. But there is no way to automate distro updates without total control of the hardware and deployment infrastructure (iow, managed service). I wish VPS providers provided this as a service since they are best positioned to do this but they don't. In fact, Digital Ocean has completely broken Ubuntu 18 -> 20 distro upgrade already.

                  foliovisionF Offline
                  foliovisionF Offline
                  foliovision
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #8

                  @girish said in RocketChat requires version 6.7 for app support but in back end we have Rocket.Chat 6.3.2:

                  I wish VPS providers provided this as a service since they are best positioned to do this but they don't. In fact, Digital Ocean has completely broken Ubuntu 18 -> 20 distro upgrade already.

                  @girish What end users of Cloudron like Foliovision would like is to have a recommended hosting provider where Cloudron does everything to make sure everything works all the time (including underlying OS updates). Heck, if you can't do it with an external partner, I'm sure Cloudron could do well with its own servers if your pricing was in the range (could be slightly more expensive) than Digital Ocean/Linode. Most of us would trust Cloudron to do more to keep our data private than any of the US majors.

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                  • girishG girish

                    As for the "jump to latest" for apps, a workaround is to have an automatic update schedule of every hour or something and just let the updater do it's work in the background. It will catch up in a day or two.

                    We only support rolling releases because we don't track the development of each upstream app (it's too much work and not much value really). I think to have app specific updating logic, one has to be involved in upstream app development entirely and understand all the consequences of jumping versions. Many apps don't adhere to semver, most have no tests for testing updates. In the past, we have had issues even when jumping patch releases and this is why we don't skip any patch release on Cloudron side for any app.

                    Finally, if you are feeling brave :-), you can always do cloudron update --appstore-id appstoreid@package-version using the CLI tool to jump releases. We do this for testing primarily and as mentioned we have no idea what happens when you jump releases since it's not tested by anyone (app authors or by us the packagers).

                    foliovisionF Offline
                    foliovisionF Offline
                    foliovision
                    wrote on last edited by foliovision
                    #9

                    Thank you for the quick answer.

                    @girish said in RocketChat requires version 6.7 for app support but in back end we have Rocket.Chat 6.3.2:

                    Finally, if you are feeling brave :-), you can always do cloudron update --appstore-id appstoreid@package-version using the CLI tool to jump releases.

                    This is not a bad tip, I've only just gotten through all of the manual updates of Kimai, RocketChat, NextCloud and Uptime Kuma (Kimai is still happening).

                    If one of these multiple version upgrades go wrong, what's the option in terms of rolling back and moving more slowly on a single app basis?

                    Cloudron is still on deck for not providing useful notifications about when the underlying OS (Ubuntu) is blocking the updates.

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                    • nebulonN Offline
                      nebulonN Offline
                      nebulon
                      Staff
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #10

                      Newer Cloudron versions should show when a platform update is blocked by an old Ubuntu version. We just can't update already shipped versions.

                      foliovisionF 1 Reply Last reply
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                      • nebulonN nebulon

                        Newer Cloudron versions should show when a platform update is blocked by an old Ubuntu version. We just can't update already shipped versions.

                        foliovisionF Offline
                        foliovisionF Offline
                        foliovision
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #11

                        @nebulon said in RocketChat requires version 6.7 for app support but in back end we have Rocket.Chat 6.3.2:

                        Newer Cloudron versions should show when a platform update is blocked by an old Ubuntu version. We just can't update already shipped versions.

                        Glad to hear it. Not having that notification caused us endless trouble with Rocket.Chat over the last six months, including a couple of support requests to you. Your answers were effectively nonsense ("update rocket.chat"), as we could not update Rocket.Chat.

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