I'm not a coder, I work in cyber security. I want to help you guys with Cloudron in any way I can.
What can I contribute?
Experienced Security Architect with a demonstrated history of working in the computer software industry. Skilled in Readiness, C4ISR, Information Assurance, Electronic Warfare, and Counterterrorism. Strong consulting professional finishing a Bachelor of Science (B.S.) focused in Network Operations & Security from Western Governors University. Medically retired veteran of the U.S. Navy submarine force.
And umm, SecDevOps, Blockchain, AI.... I'm out of buzzwords.
I'm not a coder, I work in cyber security. I want to help you guys with Cloudron in any way I can.
What can I contribute?
@kimmy I'm not a developer, but I'll try to help.
But we were very surprised to see the limitations of only 5 users and only 2 apps ! Sorry if I missed something, is it well a self-hosted solution ?
It is a self hosted solution, but packaging and distributing the apps via the webstore costs resources, much like your two servers. Subscriptions help pay for the resources needed to keep everything running, and pay the developers so they can afford to keep working on this project.
We are a small collective of volunteer videos creator without any founds, renting 2 servers (one for cloudron and an other one for our hosted videos) is already an heavy cost, we didn't imagine that the subscription would be required to overpass this limitation even when we don't pass through the store to install an app. 15$ is good when it comes to host anything, are the backups hosted on your servers ?
I understand money can be tight! Maybe we can help you find cheaper servers. Many people here have experience getting the best prices for their servers. As for installing apps, the web store is the only way to do it. You can run your own Docker containers to run more apps outside of Cloudron,, but it is difficult and time consuming.
Also some apps required 2 apps (server and client) to works, but in any case if nothing is hosted on your server I don't understand this limitation for non-business usage.
It takes time and money to maintain all these apps, the work goes into integrating them with Cloudron to make it easy to manage. You can try to do it yourself for free, but is really hard. (I tried for a whole year)
Is there a way to overpass these limitations ?
Buy a subscription. Getting paid for hard work is a good thing, it keeps updates coming and makes the developers money so they want to work hard for us.
Also, I wonder how some apps can have a MIT licence, though the source app is a GNU GPL or AGPL licence, is really it legal ?
You don't understand open source licensing, so let me help out. Think of Amazon or Google or Microsoft Cloud services, you can run Linux or BSD on all of them, but their platforms are closed-source. Same thing here.
Maybe, an unlimited solution really self-hosted without the store but with manual installation in command lines could be a solution ?
You can do manual installation of everything Cloudron does and "make your own Cloudron" right now. From FreeIPA for LDAP, to Docker, to all the apps in the web store. You can run them all with docker if you have the skill. It is difficult, but it can be done.
Sorry if my questions may be too frank, but we feel like stuck with Cloudron and forced to pay lots more a service unreachable and that we already pay by self-hosting.
Questions are good! Maybe we can help you save money in other ways so you can afford the Cloudron subscription. If you are open we are here for you.
Try out notion, and then comment, you're being downvoted because you're speaking from a place of a lack of knowledge on the given topic. Your comments are not helpful on this specific topic because by your suggestions, it is obvious that you've never used notion.
I say this with love my friend, try out notion and see how different it is from other solutions in this space.
I think we should have a new forum category, apps in progress.
As more third-party devs take part in cloudron app development, it might serve as a good place to coordinate, ask questions, and generally control the flow of development.
01 App Wishlist A place to ask for apps, and share the logic of including them in the roadmap for Cloudron or not.
02 Work In Progress A place that developers can work on apps-in-progress together, and others can follow along.
03 Announcements Where the newly greenlit apps are announced or whatever the devs want.
Thoughts? As others contribute more and more, there should be a way to coordinate efforts among ourselves, and with the devs.
@kimmy Hey Kimmy, I'm not a developer& and I am not affiliated with the project. I am just a user like you. I couldn't sleep so I thought I try to help
As for the politics of open source, the Cloudron developers post their code here: https://git.cloudron.io
Now read my message, I did not say you did not understand open source as a subject, merely open source licensing. To be honest, there are days I feel like I don't understand it either, so confusion understandable.
I can't speak to if it is right or wrong, but I can say that it is legal.
You use words like "forcing people to pay"
Nobody is forcing you to pay anything. If you want to learn DevOps and SysAdmin skills I'm all for it! Cloudron won't teach you those skills. You must put in the hard work and learn yourself, and ask questions on how best to learn.
"but for a collective unpaid and volunteer cause, nope it's kind of abusive."
So you have claimed charging for a product is abusive? Your volunteer work has nothing to do with paying for something of value. Do you pay for food? Do you pay for your servers? You exchange money, for things of value. Clearly you see what Cloudron does as valuable. Why are you unwilling to pay for that?
The communication of Cloudron is unclear and can be a kind of trap.
You are making it difficult to be patient and want to help you because you have a very bad attitude. The pricing is very clear.
"hard for a woman or every oppressed minority to give their opinion in developers communities"
Is it? We have many women members who ask questions all the time. I don't recall any women having issues posting here. I hope you can overcome your incorrect attitude and feel comfortable here.
I'm also a developer, a woman
How is this relevant? Nobody cares that you're a woman, a man, or an alien.
You have come into a new community and in very short order managed to be very offensive. Perhaps its a communication barrier. I will assume you don't mean any harm.
If you want to learn, devops, sysadmin, programming, etc... Every single thing Cloudron does, you can make yourself. It will take you a lot of work, but you will learn so much, and it is all free.
If you want a tool to use for your small team that can save you time, energy, and effort, pay for the value that it brings. That is the most honest thing in the world. You get value, the developers get paid. You pay for everything else in your life, why not this? You would be a poor customer, you want other people to work for you for nothing.
I came to you trying to help and you accused the developers of making pricing traps, of abusing you, and misquoting my reply to you in order to argue. This is very very poor manners for a person asking for help.
@nebulon So butwarden RS is probably going to need more documentation than normal. So recommended parts:
Its not a whole lot, but any of those details not configured properly could screw somebody hard, leaving vulnerable, or locked out of their passwords.
AWESOME work guys, I've been waiting on this one for a long time and it works better than expected!
@synchrone I really feel decentralization, security, and user control are all coming together lately. I second this app!
@girish you guys are doing what I would be doing if I were a software engineer. I took about a year off from Cloudron (Old forum name was Spectrely) and I tried to "roll my own" Cloudron replacement with docker-compose and a lot of effort. I then thought I'd give Cloudron a try again, and boy have you guys been busy! Its fast, polished, and mature. I can't say enough good about it.
The only thing remaining, in my opinion are some better selected apps for certain tasks (like photo management) and a real support for federation. Imagine Cloudron being a painless way to deploy federated apps, a million Cloudrons out there all linking together fighting Big Tech. I love the story on that one.
@girish It worked! Need to change some of the jekyll code around to transition from github to this, but looks good!
@girish Updated. Will confirm and report back.
Thank you for diving through madness for the fix
@girish Shouldn't the GitHub pages app be using the latest versions of Jekyll that github pages uses to maintain compatability?
Reading His page is hilarious.
"Cypht is not your father's webmail. Unless you are one of my daughters, in which case it is your father's webmail."
I like it, most open source webmail apps work and look like mid-2000s crap. (Looking at you SoGo, Rainloop, etc...)
Using dictionary words, even seemingly random is really bad advice. One method my mom used was take lyrics to a favorite song, take the first letter of each word and use that for a password, mix up a little to your liking. Thats WAAAAAAAAAAAAAY more entropy than using a string of dictionary words.
@girish No clue, I stole this theme off of a "Easy Jekyll themes site"
Here is a great thread that goes over both sides.
And... apparently this is a thing:
Over the last few weeks bitwarden crashes and refuses to work, web interface and clients cannot connect. An app restart fixes things.
I got the following symptoms.
Copy & Pasted:
May 20 12:13:03 [Wed May 20 16:13:03.755985 2020] [proxy:error] [pid 18] (111)Connection refused: AH00957: HTTP: attempt to connect to 127.0.0.1:3000 (127.0.0.1) failed
May 20 12:13:03 [Wed May 20 16:13:03.756011 2020] [proxy_http:error] [pid 18] [client 172.18.0.1:43974] AH01114: HTTP: failed to make connection to backend: 127.0.0.1
May 20 12:13:03 172.18.0.1 - - [20/May/2020:16:13:03 +0000] "POST /identity/connect/token HTTP/1.1" 503 570 "-" "Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64) AppleWebKit/537.36 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/81.0.4044.113 Safari/537.36"
May 20 12:13:10 172.18.0.1 - - [20/May/2020:16:13:10 +0000] "GET /healthcheck HTTP/1.1" 200 173 "-" "Mozilla (CloudronHealth)"
May 20 12:13:13 [Wed May 20 16:13:13.588588 2020] [proxy:error] [pid 17] (111)Connection refused: AH00957: HTTP: attempt to connect to 127.0.0.1:3000 (127.0.0.1) failed
May 20 12:13:13 [Wed May 20 16:13:13.588615 2020] [proxy_http:error] [pid 17] [client 172.18.0.1:44212] AH01114: HTTP: failed to make connection to backend: 127.0.0.1
May 20 12:13:13 172.18.0.1 - - [20/May/2020:16:13:13 +0000] "GET / HTTP/1.1" 503 570 "-" "Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64) AppleWebKit/537.36 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/81.0.4044.138 Safari/537.36"
May 20 12:13:13 [Wed May 20 16:13:13.696418 2020] [proxy:error] [pid 19] (111)Connection refused: AH00957: HTTP: attempt to connect to 127.0.0.1:3000 (127.0.0.1) failed
May 20 12:13:13 [Wed May 20 16:13:13.696444 2020] [proxy_http:error] [pid 19] [client 172.18.0.1:44218] AH01114: HTTP: failed to make connection to backend: 127.0.0.1, referer: https://vault.famfam.us/
May 20 12:13:13 172.18.0.1 - - [20/May/2020:16:13:13 +0000] "GET /favicon.ico HTTP/1.1" 503 570 "https://vault.famfam.us/" "Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64) AppleWebKit/537.36 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/81.0.4044.138 Safari/537.36"
May 20 12:13:16 [Wed May 20 16:13:16.488998 2020] [proxy:error] [pid 16] (111)Connection refused: AH00957: HTTP: attempt to connect to 127.0.0.1:3000 (127.0.0.1) failed
May 20 12:13:16 [Wed May 20 16:13:16.489024 2020] [proxy_http:error] [pid 16] [client 172.18.0.1:44232] AH01114: HTTP: failed to make connection to backend: 127.0.0.1
May 20 12:13:16 172.18.0.1 - - [20/May/2020:16:13:16 +0000] "GET / HTTP/1.1" 503 570 "-" "Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64) AppleWebKit/537.36 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/81.0.4044.138 Safari/537.36"
May 20 12:13:16 [Wed May 20 16:13:16.597252 2020] [proxy:error] [pid 15] (111)Connection refused: AH00957: HTTP: attempt to connect to 127.0.0.1:3000 (127.0.0.1) failed
May 20 12:13:16 [Wed May 20 16:13:16.597278 2020] [proxy_http:error] [pid 15] [client 172.18.0.1:44240] AH01114: HTTP: failed to make connection to backend: 127.0.0.1, referer: https://vault.famfam.us/
May 20 12:13:16 172.18.0.1 - - [20/May/2020:16:13:16 +0000] "GET /favicon.ico HTTP/1.1" 503 570 "https://vault.famfam.us/" "Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64) AppleWebKit/537.36 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/81.0.4044.138 Safari/537.36"