Nextcloud OIDC integration

[firmansi]

@jdaviescoates Correct, the deletion back again after restart, but I am okay with this because this default setting actually acts like a guidance for me in case I forget default Cloudron setting that I can apply to other OIDC, I can simply just delete the default Brand Name button without affecting anything, including new Registered Provider I have set up

[joseph]

@jdaviescoates said in Nextcloud OIDC integration:

I wonder if @staff could rename the provider to something more generic like "Open ID Connect" or "OIDC"?

Those terms are just generic technology terms. One should always have "Login with <provider>" . Like Login with gmail, Login with Github etc. Login with OIDC doesn't actually mean anything (unless it's providing some dropdown of providers after clicking the button). I think we should open a bug report upstream, seems easy to fix

[AartJansen]

I've had some issues with 2FA and nextcloud. On my android phone the freshly installed nextcloud app opens a browser page, I click "cloudron login" and get an error about

Access forbidden State token does not match

After retrying "it just works" TM

Also I used a new account to get into nextcloud, on my PC / firefox, and went to use my normal account afterwards but it automatically goes to the new account, is there a cookie / cached token or something I can delete to fix this? Clearing the entire cache is annoying.

[jdaviescoates]

@AartJansen I think you'll need to logout of your my.domain to logout then login again using the account you want to use. I now make more use of Firefox containers

[whitespace]

This may be an exotic case:

I am running a Nextcloud instance where LDAP is enabled. Uses of the institution thereby have cloudron LDAP accounts that reflect into the Nextcloud instance.

Now the same institution is creating Nextcloud user accounts within Nextcloud. These users are signing up directly to the Nextcloud instance and not to the parent Cloudron instance. Their profiles do not appear in Cloudron's LDAP directory.

This results in two types of users. The institution must be able to create user accounts for external collaborators within the Nextcloud instance. They do not need to be Cloudron users.

Will the upgrade to OIDC affect the user accounts only created within the Nextcloud instance?

User Management is enabled for the Nextcloud app. Non-Cloudron Nextcloud-only accounts exist and are behaving normally right now.

The institution is in the process of creating 100+ Nextcloud accounts. Any recommendations before sh*t hits the fan?

[joseph]

@whitespace good question. IIUC, what you are asking is if there is an account in nextcloud and cloudron, then what happens after the migration ? Does the nextcloud local account get converted into an OIDC account . Did I get that right ? (I have to test, don't have an answer)

[whitespace]

Basically yes. Here is the scenario in chronological order.

1. Fresh Nextcloud is installed on Cloudron instance pre-OIDC, user management being set to Cloudron, not Nextcloud
2. Accounts are created via Cloudron user management
3. Users start using Nextcloud
4. Users create more accounts within Nextcloud
5. Accounts created within Nextcloud do not sync back to Cloudron user directory. This was not seen as a problem since these local users were able to login into Nextcloud which is all they needed.
6. Nextcloud gets updated to OIDC version.
7. Accounts that were LDAP Cloudron accounts can not login via Nextcloud login form anymore. They have to "Login with Cloudron".
8. Accounts that were created within Nextcloud and did not reflect into Cloudron user directory can not log in anymore.

This is where we are now. The two problems summarized being:

1. Nextcloud accounts that do not exist in the Cloudron directory can not login into Nextcloud anymore.
2. Cloudron accounts that used to login with their Cloudron credentials into Nextcloud's login form, can not login directly. They have to "Login with Cloudron", get redirected to Cloudron's app specific login screen and only after that they are logged in into Nextcloud.

Expected behaviour:

1. Nextcloud accounts that do not exist in Cloudron user directory should be able to log in via Nextcloud login form.
2. Cloudron accounts should be able to login with their Cloudron credentials without the need of "Login with Cloudron" just by typing their Cloudron credentials into Nextcloud's login form.

[joseph]

@whitespace said in Nextcloud OIDC integration:

Cloudron accounts should be able to login with their Cloudron credentials without the need of "Login with Cloudron" just by typing their Cloudron credentials into Nextcloud's login form.

This one is not possible. Cloudron accounts have to use the 'Login with Cloudron' button to login . At a platform level, we have standardized on OIDC and where possible the package has been switched to use this.

But apart from that, I suggest just installing a test instance of nextcloud or a clone of your current nextcloud and check out what happens on the upgrade path.

[avatar1024]

@joseph said in Nextcloud OIDC integration:

This one is not possible. Cloudron accounts have to use the 'Login with Cloudron' button to login . At a platform level, we have standardized on OIDC and where possible the package has been switched to use this.

It kinda make sense that this is not possible, and while it may be confusing for existing users to now have to login in a different way, it makes login in more convenient overall.

However, it would still be great to have some sort of mapping from OIDC credentials to user credential in Nextcloud, as beyond just logging in, OIDC currently makes it rather awkward to connect to other part of Nextcloud. For example, according to this guide, syncing calendars via CalDAV requires you set-up a separate app login, which pretty much defeats the point of a SSO/OIDC set-up. Frankly, for anyone doing anything else than login into Nextcloud from the web interface (syncing calendars, syncing joplin notes, or using any other app that connect to nextcloud via username and password), the new OIDC set-up is more awkward and complicated than LDAP.

Is such a mapping be possible at all, like it is with LDAP??

[whitespace]

@joseph We are already up-to-date on a live Nextcloud. Thankfully problem 1. only affaects 5 accounts so far. We will manually transfer those to Cloudron.

A nice option would be to customize the text of the "Login with Cloudron" button and the info text shown above. Or, even better, a redirect to Cloudron's login form without a need of the button to begin with.

[girish]

@avatar1024 the auth situation is not ideal, agreed. But are you comfortable having a setup where users are storing their raw password in all these devices, mobile apps (whichever app your users install) and laptops?

Can't/not my place to make security choices for you , but I think if you want the old setup, I think you have to setup nextcloud without Cloudron user management and create users inside nextcloud itself . For us (platform point of view), we want to guide users to what we consider better/more secure. A leaked raw password of the platform has very big implications (compromises all apps)

[girish]

@whitespace said in Nextcloud OIDC integration:

A nice option would be to customize the text of the "Login with Cloudron" button and the info text shown above. Or, even better, a redirect to Cloudron's login form without a need of the button to begin with.

Cloudron already supports this but wasn't supported in the nextcloud plugin. But good news, this was just implemented upstream - https://github.com/nextcloud/user_oidc/issues/859 . It's still not released yet.

edit: looks like this is released, will try to update package

[avatar1024]

@girish said in Nextcloud OIDC integration:

A leaked raw password of the platform has very big implications (compromises all apps)

Very much agreed with that and overall I take your point about wanted to prioritise more secured routes. This approach does increase security but I would say only marginally, and with that reasoning we could make cloudron and various apps even more secured but at the further expense of convenience, which I don't think anymore would be up for.

Security is about a range of practices which have somewhat a hierarchy. Things like encrypting your device hard drive being probably the overarching security measure when it comes to password protection, along with using apps that transmit login details securely between device and server (though storing securely is less of a problem if device is encrypted) and using an proper password token / manager. Otherwise if someone get physical access to your device, it is likely they will get access to the platform password by some other means, for example from the web browser where, unless told otherwise, casual users will keep their platform password stored for convenience.

Sure no one is saying we should make the task easy for anyone attempting an attack like keeping all your passwords in a plain text file on your desktop, but wanting to protect the platform password by making usability much worst, where in fact the main security culprit is elsewhere (in people devices encryption and password practices) I'm not sure makes much sense. That's just my opinion, I'm happy to be told wrong and it is also not my place to tell you about security choices :).

[avatar1024]

@whitespace said in Nextcloud OIDC integration:

Nextcloud accounts that do not exist in Cloudron user directory should be able to log in via Nextcloud login form.

This seems to be working as expected. Some users in one of my Nextcloud instance are not Cloudron users and after the update enabling OIDC they haven't been logged out and their credentials seem to be working as usual.

[avatar1024]

@girish said in Nextcloud OIDC integration:

OIDC Group Sync has to be configured by the package installer just like LDAP Group Sync.

Hi @girish

So is there a solution to add users in the Nextcloud admin group with OIDC group mapping activated?

Group mapping works well but when I add users to the admin group from the Nextcloud user interface it doesn't work (as noted by @jdaviescoates earlier in this thread).

[jdaviescoates]

@avatar1024 it's working for me. But you can only edit/ update users that have logged in post updating to OIDC - it's like all the previous users don't really exist anymore.

[avatar1024]

@jdaviescoates Thanks! Have you activated group mapping / syncing though? For me it's not working. I cannot add myself to the admin group (and I have definitely logged in - in fact that's how I know I'm not an admin ). I can login with the "admin" user via the Nextcloud form but cannot add anyone else to the admin group, including myself.

[jdaviescoates]

@avatar1024 said in Nextcloud OIDC integration:

Have you activated group mapping / syncing though?

No.

[avatar1024]

@jdaviescoates Yeah so it also works for me if I don't activate group mapping / syncing but I was asking if there is a solution to add admins users with that enabled.

On one instance we used LDAP groups syncing and so switching to OIDC we need to also sync groups...but then we also needs admins

Anyone got a clue?

PS: I've tried with my user who is a cloudron superadmin and with another user who is a Cloudron admin. None of them appear in the NC admin group or can be added to it.

[joseph]

@avatar1024 can nextcloud admin group have an arbitrary name or should it be admin(s) ? Since group sync is turned on, you have to create a such a group on Cloudron. The admins group is reserved in Cloudron, but this can be changed I think.