serious Cloudflare goof
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I am not a Cloudflare customer, so I don't know the expectations of Cloudflare customers. Your recommendation is clear. Any other cloudflare customers here? Do you always proxy your sites via Cloudflare? Maybe we should add a checkbox to allow "proxied" setup at domain setup time.
@girish I'm using cloudron + CF for osintukraine.com, these consideration are super important in adversarial environments, (the question here is not about CF ethics etc..I'm fully aware of them, but still had to use CF for a bunch of very valid reasons)
So yes, the proxy at setup of the app itself would definitely help CF users, I can confirm that every installed app in a CF handled domains, requite to login to CF and manually set proxy enabled.
Since cloudron has full access to CF via the API it would be perfect to allow to set the proxy from the get go, including for the my subdomain.
The problem I'm seeing is that my subdomain is also the MX dns entry
so even if all apps get proxied properly from the start, the MX entry in itself almost render the use of CF + Cloudron useless in a very critical environment.OSINTukraine will be moved back to registrar DNS because ultimately, my domain is already burned, the only thing that kinda save me is that I setup a system that redirect any direct targeting of the box IP back to CF, but again, my IP is burned.
1 year after, I can say that the environment does not seem to be that dangerous for the project I'm running, hence considering to move back.
BenB
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@girish I'm using cloudron + CF for osintukraine.com, these consideration are super important in adversarial environments, (the question here is not about CF ethics etc..I'm fully aware of them, but still had to use CF for a bunch of very valid reasons)
So yes, the proxy at setup of the app itself would definitely help CF users, I can confirm that every installed app in a CF handled domains, requite to login to CF and manually set proxy enabled.
Since cloudron has full access to CF via the API it would be perfect to allow to set the proxy from the get go, including for the my subdomain.
The problem I'm seeing is that my subdomain is also the MX dns entry
so even if all apps get proxied properly from the start, the MX entry in itself almost render the use of CF + Cloudron useless in a very critical environment.OSINTukraine will be moved back to registrar DNS because ultimately, my domain is already burned, the only thing that kinda save me is that I setup a system that redirect any direct targeting of the box IP back to CF, but again, my IP is burned.
1 year after, I can say that the environment does not seem to be that dangerous for the project I'm running, hence considering to move back.
@benborges you can also consider moving the mail server to a separate Cloudron instance. There's no reason for all of it to be on a single server.
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@benborges you can also consider moving the mail server to a separate Cloudron instance. There's no reason for all of it to be on a single server.
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@benborges you can also consider moving the mail server to a separate Cloudron instance. There's no reason for all of it to be on a single server.
@girish on another note, I'm noticing serious issues with the cloudron mail server when used in conjunction with CF, emails sent to me bounce back and the contacts have no way to alert me that their email bounced back, it's still unclear to me why they bounce back, but Cloudron + CF + Self-hosted email server is definitely not working as it should : thunderbird or outlook autodiscovery of email setting fails and even they don't (not sure why in some case they fail and some case they don't) it's impossible to use thunderbird with CF + Cloudron, there is just no way to add the mailbox user.
no issue sending emails, no issue with app emails sending emails to emails hosted by the cloudron, no issues sending emails outside.
problem seems to be getting them. Took me months to notice this problem for instance because i wasn't keeping an eye on the Mail log.
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Oh well, I added a checkbox to set the proxying flag for new DNS records. I was in two minds but "security" is plastered all over cloudflare's marketing and docs about this feature. So, people will always have whatever opinion that cannot be changed (including mine
).It's disabled by default. From Cloudron's point of view, this is the secure default.
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@girish just thinking out loud but if this is implemented, then other areas where an action create a subdomain on the fly should also have this proxying option available, such as
that is, if the domain is handled by CF dns.@benborges Setting the default proxying value in Domains view will essentially set up the domain in Cloudflare with/without proxying for new subdomains. The flag was added only because it's considered a "security" issue. I think adding options to add/remove CF settings per subdomain level should be done in CF itself. It will complicate things too much for us to add things in subdomain level (unless there is a good reason for this).
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@benborges Setting the default proxying value in Domains view will essentially set up the domain in Cloudflare with/without proxying for new subdomains. The flag was added only because it's considered a "security" issue. I think adding options to add/remove CF settings per subdomain level should be done in CF itself. It will complicate things too much for us to add things in subdomain level (unless there is a good reason for this).
@girish Yes that's I'm currently doing, I mean, heading to CF dns dashboard each time I add a new sub domain/app but this means that during a brief period of time, the IP leaks without being proxied.
I understand if Cloudron does not want to head that way but this means that for high-threat level environments, cloudron should not be used behind CF.
BenB
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@girish Yes that's I'm currently doing, I mean, heading to CF dns dashboard each time I add a new sub domain/app but this means that during a brief period of time, the IP leaks without being proxied.
I understand if Cloudron does not want to head that way but this means that for high-threat level environments, cloudron should not be used behind CF.
@benborges said in serious Cloudflare goof:
I understand if Cloudron does not want to head that way but this means that for high-threat level environments, cloudron should not be used behind CF.
I am confused. The default option which we added for next release should allow you to hide the IP of the server from the get go, no? Can you tell me which workflow it doesn't work for?
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Oh well, I added a checkbox to set the proxying flag for new DNS records. I was in two minds but "security" is plastered all over cloudflare's marketing and docs about this feature. So, people will always have whatever opinion that cannot be changed (including mine
).It's disabled by default. From Cloudron's point of view, this is the secure default.
@girish said in serious Cloudflare goof:
Oh well, I added a checkbox to set the proxying flag for new DNS records. I was in two minds but "security" is plastered all over cloudflare's marketing and docs about this feature. So, people will always have whatever opinion that cannot be changed (including mine
).It's disabled by default. From Cloudron's point of view, this is the secure default.
I think this one is great, it will already improve CF + Cloudron for tons of use cases
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@girish just thinking out loud but if this is implemented, then other areas where an action create a subdomain on the fly should also have this proxying option available, such as
that is, if the domain is handled by CF dns.@benborges said in serious Cloudflare goof:
@girish just thinking out loud but if this is implemented, then other areas where an action create a subdomain on the fly should also have this proxying option available, such as
that is, if the domain is handled by CF dns.Maybe I'm confused, but unless this logic isn't build at the app deployment too, then yes for the main deployment it will work, but not for individual app additions ?
Ideally, if the domain is handled by CF, having a check box to directly proxy the sub-domain installations through CF would be great, but I understand that would add to much CF specific things to the app deployment at cloudron level ?
BenB
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@benborges said in serious Cloudflare goof:
@girish just thinking out loud but if this is implemented, then other areas where an action create a subdomain on the fly should also have this proxying option available, such as
that is, if the domain is handled by CF dns.Maybe I'm confused, but unless this logic isn't build at the app deployment too, then yes for the main deployment it will work, but not for individual app additions ?
Ideally, if the domain is handled by CF, having a check box to directly proxy the sub-domain installations through CF would be great, but I understand that would add to much CF specific things to the app deployment at cloudron level ?
@benborges said in serious Cloudflare goof:
Maybe I'm confused, but unless this logic isn't build at the app deployment too, then yes for the main deployment it will work, but not for individual app additions ?
Ah yes, that's what that flag does. I see now that the screeshot is not "complete". That UI is the domains view. If you set the flag, then when Cloudron adds a new domain to Cloudflare, it will set the proxying based on that value. Essentially, it's the default value of the proxying cloudflare bit for new subdomains (so, not just installation time). If you want to turn this off later, you can do so by going to the Cloudflare dashboard. Cloudron won't interfere with the "proxying" flag after the domain has been added (for the lifecycle of the app).
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@benborges said in serious Cloudflare goof:
Maybe I'm confused, but unless this logic isn't build at the app deployment too, then yes for the main deployment it will work, but not for individual app additions ?
Ah yes, that's what that flag does. I see now that the screeshot is not "complete". That UI is the domains view. If you set the flag, then when Cloudron adds a new domain to Cloudflare, it will set the proxying based on that value. Essentially, it's the default value of the proxying cloudflare bit for new subdomains (so, not just installation time). If you want to turn this off later, you can do so by going to the Cloudflare dashboard. Cloudron won't interfere with the "proxying" flag after the domain has been added (for the lifecycle of the app).
