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  3. Which NVME is best for servers?

Which NVME is best for servers?

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  • humptydumptyH Offline
    humptydumptyH Offline
    humptydumpty
    wrote on last edited by
    #1

    Which NVME would you go with for a Cloudron server hosting random apps (including Nextcloud with a lot of writes)?

    The NAS drive has an insane lifetime of 2000 TBW compared to 600 TBW on the other two drives. The Pro NVME has faster read/write speeds and better durability (not sure how "fast" it'll be on a PCIE 3.0 board). The regular drive offers the most bang for the buck.

    NAS NVME: Western Digital SN700

    Pro NVME: Samsung 980 Pro

    Regular NVME: Samsung 970 Evo Plus

    MooCloud_MattM 1 Reply Last reply
    1
    • humptydumptyH humptydumpty

      Which NVME would you go with for a Cloudron server hosting random apps (including Nextcloud with a lot of writes)?

      The NAS drive has an insane lifetime of 2000 TBW compared to 600 TBW on the other two drives. The Pro NVME has faster read/write speeds and better durability (not sure how "fast" it'll be on a PCIE 3.0 board). The regular drive offers the most bang for the buck.

      NAS NVME: Western Digital SN700

      Pro NVME: Samsung 980 Pro

      Regular NVME: Samsung 970 Evo Plus

      MooCloud_MattM Offline
      MooCloud_MattM Offline
      MooCloud_Matt
      wrote on last edited by
      #2

      @humptydumpty
      The evo if I remember correctly use 3 layer or 4 layer nand, so not really ideal.
      The WD Red is not the best for performance but it's firmware is probably more optimize for storage in a NAS or server.

      Matteo. R.
      Founder and Tech-Support Manager.
      MooCloud MSP
      Swiss Managed Service Provider

      humptydumptyH 1 Reply Last reply
      2
      • humptydumptyH Offline
        humptydumptyH Offline
        humptydumpty
        wrote on last edited by
        #3

        I got a great deal on these and had to grab 'em. Elitedesk 800 G3 DW (35W), i5-6500T, 8GB RAM. 250GB SSD (2.5") + original HP power supplies for $500 total. Oh, and they come with a Windows 10 Pro license!

        They need some love though. I'm replacing the CMOS batteries, the thermal paste with Arctic's MX-4, adding heatsinks to all the chips (raspberry pi heatsinks work great) and tossing in some wireless cards while I'm at it. The Cloudron server will have 32GB RAM (that's the max the board allows) + a 1TB NVME drive. Also, I'm thinking of making a custom top cover to accommodate a 80mm fan for better airflow since it'll be on 24/7.

        Is this the sexiest thing you've ever seen or what!?

        IMG_1936.jpg

        MooCloud_MattM 1 Reply Last reply
        1
        • MooCloud_MattM MooCloud_Matt

          @humptydumpty
          The evo if I remember correctly use 3 layer or 4 layer nand, so not really ideal.
          The WD Red is not the best for performance but it's firmware is probably more optimize for storage in a NAS or server.

          humptydumptyH Offline
          humptydumptyH Offline
          humptydumpty
          wrote on last edited by
          #4

          @MooCloud_Matt I assume what you're saying about 3 or 4 layer nand is this " V-NAND 3-bit MLC". If so, should I look for other drives that have less or more layers?

          I know that in real-world use for gaming and most software applications, we never fully take advantage of the NVME speeds. Only those doing encoding use up all that speed or so I've read. Is this also true for web servers?

          MooCloud_MattM 1 Reply Last reply
          0
          • humptydumptyH humptydumpty

            @MooCloud_Matt I assume what you're saying about 3 or 4 layer nand is this " V-NAND 3-bit MLC". If so, should I look for other drives that have less or more layers?

            I know that in real-world use for gaming and most software applications, we never fully take advantage of the NVME speeds. Only those doing encoding use up all that speed or so I've read. Is this also true for web servers?

            MooCloud_MattM Offline
            MooCloud_MattM Offline
            MooCloud_Matt
            wrote on last edited by MooCloud_Matt
            #5

            @humptydumpty said in Which NVME is best for servers?:

            less

            Less is better for writing a lot of random data, without burning the Nand lifetime.
            All the time that you have to write, delete or modify a bite of data, on one column, all the layer need to be rewritten, which mean that that need to be moved.
            So more layer more work, and less performance on spikes of small random write.

            We have a lot of Dell Optiblex, they are great I hope that you will have a good experience with the elitedesk, but now I'm so sad because there is no support for M1 CPU on linux, so no real ARM server for small/medium providers.

            Matteo. R.
            Founder and Tech-Support Manager.
            MooCloud MSP
            Swiss Managed Service Provider

            1 Reply Last reply
            1
            • humptydumptyH humptydumpty

              I got a great deal on these and had to grab 'em. Elitedesk 800 G3 DW (35W), i5-6500T, 8GB RAM. 250GB SSD (2.5") + original HP power supplies for $500 total. Oh, and they come with a Windows 10 Pro license!

              They need some love though. I'm replacing the CMOS batteries, the thermal paste with Arctic's MX-4, adding heatsinks to all the chips (raspberry pi heatsinks work great) and tossing in some wireless cards while I'm at it. The Cloudron server will have 32GB RAM (that's the max the board allows) + a 1TB NVME drive. Also, I'm thinking of making a custom top cover to accommodate a 80mm fan for better airflow since it'll be on 24/7.

              Is this the sexiest thing you've ever seen or what!?

              IMG_1936.jpg

              MooCloud_MattM Offline
              MooCloud_MattM Offline
              MooCloud_Matt
              wrote on last edited by
              #6

              @humptydumpty said in Which NVME is best for servers?:

              custom top cover to accommodate a 80mm fan for better airflow since it'll be on 24/7

              See how it goes, the i5-6500T is not soo power-hungry, so you should be fine even for a 24/7 server.

              Matteo. R.
              Founder and Tech-Support Manager.
              MooCloud MSP
              Swiss Managed Service Provider

              1 Reply Last reply
              0
              • marcusquinnM Offline
                marcusquinnM Offline
                marcusquinn
                wrote on last edited by
                #7

                @humptydumpty How about using them for a Proxmox cluster? High-availability Cloudron, plus whatever other OSes you wanna play with.

                Web Design https://www.evergreen.je
                Development https://brandlight.org
                Life https://marcusquinn.com

                MooCloud_MattM 1 Reply Last reply
                0
                • marcusquinnM marcusquinn

                  @humptydumpty How about using them for a Proxmox cluster? High-availability Cloudron, plus whatever other OSes you wanna play with.

                  MooCloud_MattM Offline
                  MooCloud_MattM Offline
                  MooCloud_Matt
                  wrote on last edited by MooCloud_Matt
                  #8

                  @marcusquinn
                  They have win10pro so hyper-v it's easy to use and pre installed, could be faster and easier the use proxmox

                  Matteo. R.
                  Founder and Tech-Support Manager.
                  MooCloud MSP
                  Swiss Managed Service Provider

                  1 Reply Last reply
                  0
                  • robiR Offline
                    robiR Offline
                    robi
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #9

                    My experience in the storage arena would stick with the Samsung higher end Pro drives.

                    They're the only company that is fully vertically integrated (makes all their own chips) and doesn't cheat by swapping component parts after an initial announcement to save on costs.

                    Many of the new announcements for speed this or bandwidth that are mostly for show, which you can't replicate in later model numbers.

                    Hence don't focus so much on the underlying process or layers in this category.

                    Conscious tech

                    humptydumptyH 1 Reply Last reply
                    0
                    • robiR robi

                      My experience in the storage arena would stick with the Samsung higher end Pro drives.

                      They're the only company that is fully vertically integrated (makes all their own chips) and doesn't cheat by swapping component parts after an initial announcement to save on costs.

                      Many of the new announcements for speed this or bandwidth that are mostly for show, which you can't replicate in later model numbers.

                      Hence don't focus so much on the underlying process or layers in this category.

                      humptydumptyH Offline
                      humptydumptyH Offline
                      humptydumpty
                      wrote on last edited by humptydumpty
                      #10

                      @MooCloud_Matt Thanks for the explanation! The 980 Pro is 3 layers and the 970 Pro is 2 layers but there's a HUGE price difference. 970 Pro is $116 more for the 1TB version on Amazon US. Ouch! Edit: just noticed that's a 3rd party seller.

                      @robi It seems people are having issues with the SN700 and saying that WD isn't honoring the warranty so Samsung Pro seems like the way to go. Besides, all my OS drives are Samsung and I haven't had a single one fail on me and those aren't even the Pro series so that says a lot about their quality.

                      @marcusquinn I've never self-hosted before. My first and last attempt was on an old laptop which I tried to get Cloudron set up but ended up taking it down because of IPv6 issues but that shouldn't be a problem now that Cloudron fully supports it. I love the idea of having a high-availability server. I remember reading a discussion about it on this forum. Sadly, only one is available (so far) for me to use as a server.

                      1 Reply Last reply
                      1
                      • L Offline
                        L Offline
                        LoudLemur
                        wrote on last edited by LoudLemur
                        #11

                        Backblaze regularly publish interesting statistics on drive survival:

                        https://www.backblaze.com/blog/ssd-edition-2021-drive-stats-review/

                        https://www.backblaze.com/blog/backblaze-drive-stats-for-q2-2021/

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