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Cloudron Forum

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  1. Cloudron Forum
  2. Feature Requests
  3. Suggestion: Clarify Email Client Configuration UI (Port 465 labelling/ inclusion)

Suggestion: Clarify Email Client Configuration UI (Port 465 labelling/ inclusion)

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emailports587465starttls
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  • jdaviescoatesJ Offline
    jdaviescoatesJ Offline
    jdaviescoates
    wrote last edited by jdaviescoates
    #1

    Just a small suggestion to improve the "Configuring Email Clients" dialog that appears when selecting Configure Email Clients from the mail UI.

    At the moment, it lists:

    Outgoing Mail (SMTP)
    Server: my.domain.coop
    Port: 587 (STARTTLS) or 465 (TLS)
    

    This is potentially misleading. Port 465 uses implicit SSL, not STARTTLS — and many email clients (like Calibre, Thunderbird, etc.) distinguish between:

    • STARTTLS (587 – modern standard)
    • SSL/TLS (465 – legacy support)

    Labeling 465 as “TLS” can lead users to select “TLS” in their client with port 465, which silently fails or throws confusing authentication errors. This catches me out nearly every time I have to configure something!

    e.g. Calibre desktop app has this:

    4b2698f5-5b06-4cf0-8aea-c968ba525e1c-image.png

    I was using port 465 and TLS as that is literally what the Configure Email Clients from the mail UI told me to do! But that doesn't work.

    Suggested wording:

    Port: 587 (STARTTLS – recommended)
          465 (SSL – legacy support; may not work in all apps)
    

    Or even:

    Port: 587 (STARTTLS – modern standard)
          465 (Implicit SSL – older method)
    

    Or even just:

    Port: 587 (STARTTLS)
    

    This would better align with Cloudron’s own docs, which only recommend port 587 anyway.

    Thanks!

    I use Cloudron with Gandi & Hetzner

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    • jamesJ Offline
      jamesJ Offline
      james
      Staff
      wrote last edited by james
      #2

      Hey @jdaviescoates
      I think this is a good suggestion.
      These strings are handled by the @translator group/people via https://translate.cloudron.io/projects/cloudron/
      If you'd like, we could add you to that group and give you access so you can submit these changes.

      But since you stated in the past:

      @jdaviescoates said in 33 GB of usage, 177 GB system space occupied - how to find ghost files?:

      I'm a bit over stretched at the mo so if you could do it that'd be great, thanks

      I can make this change for you.

      1 Reply Last reply
      0
      • jamesJ Offline
        jamesJ Offline
        james
        Staff
        wrote last edited by
        #3

        Ah, this specific string is not in the translation but coming from the box code.
        Working on it.

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        • girishG Offline
          girishG Offline
          girish
          Staff
          wrote last edited by girish
          #4

          We can maybe remove port 465 altogether. That port is now deprecated. In fact, it's been reassigned to something else. See also https://www.mailgun.com/blog/email/which-smtp-port-understanding-ports-25-465-587/#chapter-3

          edit: but atleast per https://www.iana.org/assignments/service-names-port-numbers/service-names-port-numbers.txt it's not marked deprecated

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          • girishG Offline
            girishG Offline
            girish
            Staff
            wrote last edited by
            #5

            Of course, if one searches hard enough internet, one can always find comments to the contrary 🙂 https://community.cloudflare.com/t/outdated-information-on-smtp-ports-port-465-vs-587/777312/7 says "Most end-user client software seems to prefer 465" . Best to leave it as-is

            jdaviescoatesJ 1 Reply Last reply
            0
            • girishG girish

              Of course, if one searches hard enough internet, one can always find comments to the contrary 🙂 https://community.cloudflare.com/t/outdated-information-on-smtp-ports-port-465-vs-587/777312/7 says "Most end-user client software seems to prefer 465" . Best to leave it as-is

              jdaviescoatesJ Offline
              jdaviescoatesJ Offline
              jdaviescoates
              wrote last edited by
              #6

              @girish said in Suggestion: Clarify Email Client Configuration UI (Port 465 labelling/ inclusion):

              Best to leave it as-is

              But don't say 465 (TLS).

              This:

              Port: 587 (STARTTLS) or 465 (TLS)
              

              Which is says when you click here:

              Screenshot from 2025-07-21 14-19-07.png

              Is confusing/ wrong, as it seems in actually existing UIs they never actually go together and TLS tends to actually mean STARTTLS which goes with 587.

              I think perhaps something like:

              Port: 587 (STARTTLS – often just called TLS. Recommended) or 465 (SSL – older method)
              

              ?

              I use Cloudron with Gandi & Hetzner

              girishG 1 Reply Last reply
              0
              • nebulonN Offline
                nebulonN Offline
                nebulon
                Staff
                wrote last edited by
                #7

                Yeah it is very confusing from a client perspective. The gnome mail clients use:

                image.png

                Thunderbird also does so

                image.png

                Same K9 and the random email app I have on my Android phone.

                Can't say much about how the situation on mac or windows is though, as I don't have such environments.

                1 Reply Last reply
                1
                • jdaviescoatesJ jdaviescoates

                  @girish said in Suggestion: Clarify Email Client Configuration UI (Port 465 labelling/ inclusion):

                  Best to leave it as-is

                  But don't say 465 (TLS).

                  This:

                  Port: 587 (STARTTLS) or 465 (TLS)
                  

                  Which is says when you click here:

                  Screenshot from 2025-07-21 14-19-07.png

                  Is confusing/ wrong, as it seems in actually existing UIs they never actually go together and TLS tends to actually mean STARTTLS which goes with 587.

                  I think perhaps something like:

                  Port: 587 (STARTTLS – often just called TLS. Recommended) or 465 (SSL – older method)
                  

                  ?

                  girishG Offline
                  girishG Offline
                  girish
                  Staff
                  wrote last edited by
                  #8

                  @jdaviescoates from what I understand, the issue is not the help text in Cloudron . The issue is that some apps/clients label it as "TLS" or "SSL" .

                  • SSL itself is deprecated, so it's hard to know what exactly the calibre UI needs. It's also common to refer to TLS as SSL because of history.

                  • Let's say Cloudron says STARTTLS is recommended. What makes one choose TLS on Calibre? Only because "TLS" seems like some vague match? But technically speaking, these are two different things. As see in other cases like thunderbird and k9....

                  Overall, it sucks 🙂

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                  • jdaviescoatesJ Offline
                    jdaviescoatesJ Offline
                    jdaviescoates
                    wrote last edited by
                    #9

                    @girish yeah, now I've seen more of the UI examples for @nebulon I can see the issue. I just know that speaking personally at least a couple of times (in Calibre and definitely somewhere else too, but I can't remember where now) what has worked is choosing 587 + TLS (which I guess is just being mislabelled etc). But agreed, overall it sucks but not a huge amount you can do about it. Seems it basically an issue of trial and error which is rubbish.

                    I guess perhaps at least perhaps a small note could be added to the pop-up about how many apps/ platforms have confusing UIs and sometimes trial and error is required (possibly with a link to this thread? 🤷 )

                    I use Cloudron with Gandi & Hetzner

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                    • andreasduerenA Offline
                      andreasduerenA Offline
                      andreasdueren
                      wrote last edited by
                      #10

                      Yes it sucks. Basically I tell people to simply try out variations of the possibilities until it works. Have you considered adding the option to let people download mobilconfig files for automatic setup? It's a simple XML file I believe which could be auto generated. There is also this tool: https://mobileconfig.vercel.app/

                      jdaviescoatesJ 1 Reply Last reply
                      2
                      • andreasduerenA andreasdueren

                        Yes it sucks. Basically I tell people to simply try out variations of the possibilities until it works. Have you considered adding the option to let people download mobilconfig files for automatic setup? It's a simple XML file I believe which could be auto generated. There is also this tool: https://mobileconfig.vercel.app/

                        jdaviescoatesJ Offline
                        jdaviescoatesJ Offline
                        jdaviescoates
                        wrote last edited by
                        #11

                        @andreasdueren said in Suggestion: Clarify Email Client Configuration UI (Port 465 labelling/ inclusion):

                        Have you considered adding the option to let people download mobilconfig files for automatic setup? It's a simple XML file I believe which could be auto generated. There is also this tool: https://mobileconfig.vercel.app/

                        That sounds good for some use cases. Don't think it would've helped in my "configure Calibre" use case though 🤷

                        I use Cloudron with Gandi & Hetzner

                        andreasduerenA 1 Reply Last reply
                        1
                        • jdaviescoatesJ jdaviescoates

                          @andreasdueren said in Suggestion: Clarify Email Client Configuration UI (Port 465 labelling/ inclusion):

                          Have you considered adding the option to let people download mobilconfig files for automatic setup? It's a simple XML file I believe which could be auto generated. There is also this tool: https://mobileconfig.vercel.app/

                          That sounds good for some use cases. Don't think it would've helped in my "configure Calibre" use case though 🤷

                          andreasduerenA Offline
                          andreasduerenA Offline
                          andreasdueren
                          wrote last edited by
                          #12

                          @jdaviescoates Yes I know, this was more of a general feature request lol

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