There seems to be no access to Taiga Themes?
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@nebulon @micmc someone created this 5 years ago
https://github.com/KeizerDev/taiga-contrib-email-overrides
I wonder if it still works! I'd guess likely not, but if you look at these old tickets you'll see how it was made:
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@nebulon said in There seems to be no access to Taiga Themes?:
@micmc I would suggest to discuss this with the upstream project members and making the case with them. This is likely good feedback and maybe they will consider implementing theming in that area.
Yeah, been thinking the same while writing the above, it may be just something they don't realize yet.
A software, if one wants to promote it heavily must be USED by as much users as one can, and as freely as it possibly can. Putting too much restrictions on pretended "open software" is much counter productive. One must stay open minded in its thinking source
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@jdaviescoates Thanks mate, 'lemme check'
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@jdaviescoates said in There seems to be no access to Taiga Themes?:
@nebulon @micmc someone created this 5 years ago
https://github.com/KeizerDev/taiga-contrib-email-overrides
I wonder if it still works! I'd guess likely not, but if you look at these old tickets you'll see how it was made:
Theoretically, it should work or maybe with a few fixes because these are templates. However that would still requires that we have access to the email templates which it seems we don't, yet. If it was the case then we could use these templates and even creates custom new ones for oneself, or even make just few modifications at will.
Cheers! -
@micmc Hi! this is Pablo, from the Taiga team. I very much enjoyed this debate, truly constructive.
Now, I'd like to make sure we're covering the same Taiga version here, since we made significant changes to the "un-branding" of those emails. Taiga 6 is much less heavy on that when it comes to... well, everything, but notification emails in particular.
Here is a real example of a change notification email. Taiga logo is subtle, content and call to action are king. I see very little Taiga branding here. Actually, it's the logo, which, well, it's quite nice and fair to have it and then "Taiga support" which is also convenient to have (some people do use it from these emails).
Now, was it like this in the past? Like in Taiga 5? No, it was much more cluttered, more branding, etc. So, again, my question is, which Taiga release are we talking about? If we're talking about Taiga 6 I'm afraid we don't see an issue with branding on emails. There's always room for improvement, but it would lean on "optimisation" aspects (for us). If it's Taiga 5 then we all agree
but it's important to upgrade.A separate point would be how easy is to modify email templates. Well, it's easy enough. People running their private instances do it all the time. It's a bit techie, you need to edit some files, but that's all. If you're using a service like Cloudron then I guess there are some limitations to what you can customise but it's not a Taiga constraint per se. We estimate between 100.000 and 500.000 Taiga instances around the world and this is clearly not an issue at all.
Here at Taiga we are busy with what we call "Taiga Next" (the screenshot I shared is a bit of a spoiler, actually) which is codename for "the next big release" and we are listening very closely to feedback such as this. We want to create the best agile project management experience for teams and it's tough just by going auto-pilot, it's great to have feedback!
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@diacritica said in There seems to be no access to Taiga Themes?:
@micmc Hi! this is Pablo, from the Taiga team. I very much enjoyed this debate, truly constructive.
Hey Pablo, cool it's nice to see you land here. Something tells me that your head might have had a "ringing of a bell" for you to land here at this time lol
6.0.3 is the version we use. Indeed.
As I said above in the thread, I was very likely to call you on @nebulon 's suggestion because, well if you've read here above you should know why. And if you read well, I'm talking from the point of view of the end users of "my target market", from a very special project I'm working on, a target market I come from myself which I know for a fact end users will NOT use this app if the emails are branded in any way other than their own brand. They will rather go buy and use a crappy app from codecanyon, or get on one of those SaaS deal, crap as well, than use your app if there's even one link in the email sent to their users, which are not of their own brand or have no control on.
Now, remind what I said about how a software MUST BE USED to become successful!
Take 30 seconds and think, what if ALL developers of the different source codes involved only in email and servers transporting them wanted to brand the emails which are sent using their code? ? ?
It's not the way to go to promote your app. You want to play the google game and that will not work in MANY markets.
Now, I'd like to make sure we're covering the same Taiga version here, since we made significant changes to the "un-branding" of those emails. Taiga 6 is much less heavy on that
That's pretty cool and since we're talking about version 6 and it's what we use, then the emails are the ones I've already described in the OP. And yes, I find them 'idiots' (not you loll) in the strict communication ethic point and for the purpose you believe it fulfills.
Here is a real example of a change notification email. Taiga logo is subtle, content and call to action are king. I see very little Taiga branding here. Actually, it's the logo, which, well, it's quite nice and fair to have it and then "Taiga support" which is also convenient to have (some people do use it from these emails).
I've already expressed my thoughts about branding the emails, at least for my target market and the way I intend to deploy things.
But let me help you for your own sake, and I hope you keep in mind that we're talking about private instances here, people who are using the app are NOT interacting with Taiga.io at all, and, sorry to say so but that's how it is, they very likely don't care at all about taiga, at least no more than they care about mikeysoft while they are using "Word", taiga here is only the software in use for the project, they really are interacting with the INSTANCES OWNERS and I maintain all I said above about confusion and support tickets this would create.
You do as you please, it's your software and you can believe it's "fair" to have Taiga branding and link in OTHER PEOPLE'S private communication emails, but I will say imho it is not. Moreover, I will ad it is very likely much useless for the purpose of promoting your app as you may think it does. As much as the link the designer puts at the bottom of a website he's built.
I don't know where you were in 1991 but me I was sitting right where I'm sitting right now typing this. Then I jumped deeply in Internet technology as soon as 1998 to never leave. I'm a marketing expert converted to expert marketing technology tactician and I've been using FOSS since the very beginnings and become sysadmin the very first year of my online operation, you know there was not even a cpanel at that time and one who wanted to host had to learn CLI, let alone much sophisticated drag and drop web dev platform as we find at every corner of the web nowadays. I'm not saying all this to brag, just so you know I know what I'm talking about, and it's not what I think but it's what I KNOW. There are thousands of different markets it's unimaginable and I know very well mine since I've been involved in development of thousands of projects online from all around the word.
If we're talking about Taiga 6 I'm afraid we don't see an issue with branding on emails.
As I said, it's your shot. There are tens if not hundreds projects apps to chose from I'm sure you know that
We estimate between 100.000 and 500.000 Taiga instances around the world and this is clearly not an issue at all.
Want to buy my house? Price is between $100k and $500k loll
I'm kidding, it's a very wide range for one to making an idea. I'm kidding, but the truth is even 500k is peanuts in FOSS world with apps of this caliber. Meaning, you can certainly not count on this vague data to affirm that your 'formula' is 'good' for what you believe it is.we are listening very closely to feedback such as this. We want to create the best agile project management experience for teams and it's tough just by going auto-pilot, it's great to have feedback!
Actually I perceive for now you are more reading than you are really "listening", by the way you address the concerns lifted here with answers that are not taking them in consideration at all. I feel more like you came here more to tell (sell) why you do things the way you do for the reasons you believe is a good or a "fair" thing.
We should be able to brand 100% of the emails, but no one will ever force you do things you strongly believe are right for you.
Regards
Andy -
Actually I perceive for now you are more reading than you are really "listening", by the way you address the concerns lifted here with answers that are not taking them in consideration at all. I feel more like you came here more to tell (sell) why you do things the way you do for the reasons you believe is a good or a "fair" thing.
To be fair, one can listen and still disagree. They generally seem quite receptive to feedback and suggestions. Just didn't agree this time ¯_(ツ)_/¯
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Hi again @micmc !
Thanks for the detailed reply!
First things first, changing these two files will get you 80% of the way
- https://github.com/kaleidos-ventures/taiga-back/blob/main/taiga/base/templates/emails/includes/footer.jinja
- https://github.com/kaleidos-ventures/taiga-back/blob/main/settings/common.py (actually, overwrite some variables using config.prod.py, you don't need to change this file at all)
Your feedback is very welcome, particularly while we are designing the next major Taiga release. Welcoming feedback doesn't mean blindly accepting it. We have our own research and our metrics after 5 years or running this beautiful open source platform and we need to put together all those inputs. I came here (the "ringing of a bell" moment you mention) because a Taiga core team member said "Hey folks, I read this, we should take this input into account for the next release, it's interesting". So, please, please, please, don't project intentionality into my words expressed above, it's simpler than that.
I was privileged enough to enjoy early access to the Internet as back as 1995, went into open source in 1996, SuSE 5.1) and I made my career in open source since 2002. I've seen quite some stuff over the past 19 years and what you say is true, but may I say I don't like that truth? I mean, white-labeling Taiga is not something that excites me. We put much work into having a strongly opinionated project management platform and then we make sure it's flexible (besides being open source) for people to adapt it both at the end-user level as well as sysadmins, but it's not a priority to make it absolutely trivial for people to wash out Taiga branding. Also, our data doesn't support that need. Our hypothesis here is "some people high in hierarchy in big corps do value platform rebranding" and also that "they'd be willing to pay something, not much, but something, in order to have a fully controlled rebranding module". Well, we can develop such rebranding module as paid add-on. 99% of the Taiga community couldn't care less about that but they care about a sustainable product so that's some revenue that we can use for other more exciting stuff.
When you develop a commercial open source platform (meaning, you need revenue for payrolls) you have many choices to make. One in particular is how much you're willing to be washed out for the sake of being used. There are red lines, you may call it ego, but I also like to call it "open source should be respected, not abused". We have a delicate equilibrium here. On one hand, you want people to have zero barriers to use and adapt your tools (whether it's SaaS, self-managed, or intermediate services like Cloudron), on the other hand, you want to have a strong presence, avoiding being diluted as a project and as a brand.
Again, these two files are nearly everything you need to change to adapt it to your audience.
- https://github.com/kaleidos-ventures/taiga-back/blob/main/taiga/base/templates/emails/includes/footer.jinja
- https://github.com/kaleidos-ventures/taiga-back/blob/main/settings/common.py (actually, overwrite some variables using config.prod.py, you don't need to change this file at all)
Cloudron doesn't give you access to those files but that's simply Cloudron, it makes sense for them not to allow for that.
You made your point here when you said:
"it's your software and you can believe it's "fair" to have Taiga branding and link in OTHER PEOPLE'S private communication emails, but I will say imho it is not. Moreover, I will ad it is very likely much useless for the purpose of promoting your app as you may think it does. As much as the link the designer puts at the bottom of a website he's built."That's fine. We can disagree, but rest assured we are listening. This is not a GPT-3 generated response... or is it?
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Fair-code
https://faircode.io/ -
@micmc said in There seems to be no access to Taiga Themes?:
6.0.3 is the version we use.
Taiga on Cloudron was updated to 6.0.9 over 3 months ago.
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@atridad To be fair, I said "I perceive". I don't know them, it's the first time I speak with them, if you know them more good for you. But that is irrelevant here, right now.
Not agreeing, which is very fine, is also a result of not really listening.
Especially when you have NOT A SINGLE counter argument to present.
THAT is, NOT listening. Sorry but I persist and I sign this statement.
I've NOT been sold to use Taiga because of the emails branding. I could double their user base in one year if they'd listen. But I respect their choice very well and that does not mean they're not listening in other cases, which was not my point but yours
Take care.
Andy -
@hillside502 said in There seems to be no access to Taiga Themes?:
@micmc said in There seems to be no access to Taiga Themes?:
6.0.3 is the version we use.
Taiga on Cloudron was updated to 6.0.9 over 3 months ago.
The point in case was if we're using version 6.
6.0.3 IS version 6 -
@diacritica said in There seems to be no access to Taiga Themes?:
Hi again @micmc !
Thanks for the detailed reply!
First things first, changing these two files will get you 80% of the way
- https://github.com/kaleidos-ventures/taiga-back/blob/main/taiga/base/templates/emails/includes/footer.jinja
- https://github.com/kaleidos-ventures/taiga-back/blob/main/settings/common.py (actually, overwrite some variables using config.prod.py, you don't need to change this file at all)
You've missed to follow mate. What started this discussion is the way Taiga is mounted with Cloudron technology, we don't have access to these files.
Your feedback is very welcome, particularly while we are designing the next major Taiga release. Welcoming feedback doesn't mean blindly accepting it. We have our own research and our metrics after 5 years or running this beautiful open source platform and we need to put together all those inputs.
I was not expecting you accept things blindly. These metrics you are talking about are certainly not coming from the branded taiga links in its email templates. And this is what I'm talking about only, emails. Branding emails from the settings inside the app.
I was privileged enough to enjoy early access to the Internet as back as 1995, went into open source in 1996, SuSE 5.1) and I made my career in open source since 2002.
And obviously we both haven't been developing in the same market at all. You, operating systems and in the like. Me, Marketing Technology. For example, I've running one of the first aurotesponders service online, look for "Autoresponse Magic" in Internet Way Back Machine archives. And many more in the like. I'm not saying to brag, only to show we have been online both of us long enough but we have touched two completely different worlds and markets, and approach to the Online Market, which has now become the Market Online. (no kidding)
I've seen quite some stuff over the past 19 years and what you say is true, but may I say I don't like that truth? I mean, white-labeling Taiga is not something that excites me.
Hopefully not and let's hope noone would expect that from you. Me I did not talk about white-labelling Taiga at all, and was talking about having emails of the app to be FREE of Taiga branding.
Mate you need to follow, do not bring me where I haven't touched a word. Thanks
Andy
