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Cloudron Forum

Apps | Demo | Docs | Install

Best privacy chat apps

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  • ? Offline
    ? Offline
    A Former User
    replied to marcusquinn on last edited by
    #65

    @marcusquinn I mean yeah, for a number of people the security aspect is something of a non-issue. What moves them is the UX. But I'd argue that most, if not all, open-source chat apps that allow for self hosting simply cannot compete with Signal because people move to the shiny thing. You and I know that there are better options if privacy is the concern, but for the majority of people privacy truly is not a concern. If it was, we wouldn't even be having this discussion and everyone would use Matrix.

    But where I'm coming from here is solving the core issue of the best privacy chat app, which I still argue is Matrix. I would not say it is the best chat app. But again its a matter of what one prioritizes.

    R marcusquinnM 2 Replies Last reply
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  • R Offline
    R Offline
    Robin
    replied to A Former User on last edited by
    #66

    @atrilahiji Well, you also don't really need to compete with Signal if you can use it as a trojan horse using e.g. https://docs.mau.fi/bridges/python/signal/index.html. Of course, this comes with its own set of challenges: making a good experience with many moving parts is not easy - and bridges are inevitably another moving part, often of questionable quality since they aren't a primary focus.

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  • marcusquinnM Offline
    marcusquinnM Offline
    marcusquinn
    replied to A Former User on last edited by
    #67

    @atrilahiji Yeah, it's a compromise step I feel. Secure enough to be better than ad-tech's conflicts of interest, but still aware that the metadata for who's chatting with whom and when still has some potential value that one wouldn't want to share if given an assured choice.

    Matrix I love the ideals and successes of. Element seems the best of the bunch. So for this audience, certainly the best we have.

    For my entire social circle, well I can't see it happening but would be happy to see otherwise.

    I guess the original point of the post was non-Cloudron specific, and potential for mass-market.

    I guess we have to wait and see what Elon Musk shills next 😂 if Signal's MOB payments sour the new kid capturing mindshare.

    We're not here for a long time - but we are here for a good time :)
    Jersey/UK
    Work & Ecommerce Advice: https://brandlight.org
    Personal & Software Tips: https://marcusquinn.com

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  • A Offline
    A Offline
    atupuxi
    wrote on last edited by
    #68

    The Very Best Encrypted Messaging Apps:-

    1. Signal
    2. Wickr Me
    3. Dust
    4. WhatsApp
    5. Telegram
    6. Apple iMessage
    7. Facebook Messenger

    App to avoid: Google Hangouts. Despite being available for free on both iOS and Android, Google Hangouts is riddled with privacy and security concerns. Though it does encrypt hangout conversations, it doesn’t use end-to-end encryption — instead, messages are encrypted “in transit”.

    ? necrevistonnezrN 2 Replies Last reply
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  • ? Offline
    ? Offline
    A Former User
    replied to atupuxi on last edited by
    #69

    @atupuxi Good to see Signal on there but WhatsApp and FB Messenger are suspect. I'd probably put something like Matrix (Element) on there. Probably even above Signal since you can't quite self host Signal.

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  • necrevistonnezrN Offline
    necrevistonnezrN Offline
    necrevistonnezr
    replied to atupuxi on last edited by
    #70

    @atupuxi said in Best privacy chat apps:

    The Very Best Encrypted Messaging Apps:-

    1. Signal
    2. Wickr Me
    3. Dust
    4. WhatsApp
    5. Telegram
    6. Apple iMessage
    7. Facebook Messenger

    Wickr was just acquired by Amazon (!) of all companies: https://www.theverge.com/2021/6/25/22550361/amazon-wickr-aws-secure-messaging-encryption

    ? JOduMonTJ 2 Replies Last reply
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  • ? Offline
    ? Offline
    A Former User
    replied to necrevistonnezr on last edited by A Former User
    #71

    @necrevistonnezr IMO I'd remove anything that is owned by big tech OR is closed source from that list. How can we ever ensure a closed source application is secure?

    jdaviescoatesJ JOduMonTJ 2 Replies Last reply
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  • jdaviescoatesJ Offline
    jdaviescoatesJ Offline
    jdaviescoates
    replied to A Former User on last edited by
    #72

    @atridad said in Best privacy chat apps:

    @necrevistonnezr IMO I'd remove anything that is owned by big tech OR is closed source from that list. How can we ever ensure a closed source application is secure?

    Or in other words, just refer to the great infographic I posted earlier.

    I use Cloudron with Gandi & Hetzner

    ? 1 Reply Last reply
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  • ? Offline
    ? Offline
    A Former User
    replied to jdaviescoates on last edited by A Former User
    #73

    @jdaviescoates This is perfect.

    IMO with the Spaces beta Matrix (using Element as the client) is very good in terms of usability. I use it with family and friends now and its been effortless.

    Now we just need Dendrite packaged for a server... unfortunately I know next to nothing about packaging federated apps so I'm hoping someone else will try before I hack something awful together.

    robiR 1 Reply Last reply
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  • robiR Offline
    robiR Offline
    robi
    replied to A Former User on last edited by robi
    #74

    @atridad The example package is there with Matrix server no?

    Life of sky tech

    ? 1 Reply Last reply
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  • ? Offline
    ? Offline
    A Former User
    replied to robi on last edited by
    #75

    @robi Oh I mean we do have the Matrix Synapse server written in python. The team behind Matrix is working on another server called Dendrite written in go.

    robiR 1 Reply Last reply
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  • robiR Offline
    robiR Offline
    robi
    replied to A Former User on last edited by
    #76

    @atridad right, other than the language difference, the 'federation' packaging should be the same, yes?

    Life of sky tech

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  • JOduMonTJ Offline
    JOduMonTJ Offline
    JOduMonT
    replied to necrevistonnezr on last edited by
    #77
    This post is deleted!
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  • JOduMonTJ Offline
    JOduMonTJ Offline
    JOduMonT
    replied to A Former User on last edited by
    #78

    @atridad said in Best privacy chat apps:

    @necrevistonnezr IMO I'd remove anything that is owned by big tech OR is closed source from that list. How can we ever ensure a closed source application is secure?

    Personally, I don't like Signal, for it is just another WhatsApp were you could be tracked by GPS/Beacon and meta-data. I saw too much anti-government group using Signal and being intercepted simply by correlating the high level of exchange in Signal (metadata) and movement tracking (GPS).

    For the fact, saying Close Source is not secure by default, it is simply a point of view. Few companies with whom I work do business with the military and don't want to use anything Open Source because for them Open Source sound full of flaws and weaken their defence.

    humptydumptyH ianhyzyI L 3 Replies Last reply
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  • humptydumptyH Offline
    humptydumptyH Offline
    humptydumpty
    replied to JOduMonT on last edited by humptydumpty
    #79

    @jodumont I read somewhere that the biggest user group of linux is the US military. I'll try to find a source for you. Open source is seen as a positive, not a negative. The military from other nations also use Linux like China and Turkey...

    https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2013/10/the-navys-newest-warship-is-powered-by-linux/

    https://www.zdnet.com/article/the-air-forces-secure-linux-distribution/

    https://mil-oss.org/

    https://www.fudzilla.com/news/50016-us-military-loves-linux

    JOduMonTJ 2 Replies Last reply
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  • ianhyzyI Offline
    ianhyzyI Offline
    ianhyzy
    replied to JOduMonT on last edited by ianhyzy
    #80

    @jodumont SIgnal is by far the most secure digital messaging app usable by normal people at this point and this isn't a controversial point among security folks. No matter app what you use, law enforcement can subpoena your phone's cell tower connection records, among other things(at least in the US).

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  • ? Offline
    ? Offline
    A Former User
    wrote on last edited by A Former User
    #81

    Yeah... I'd never be inclined to believe that a chat application is secure unless they are willing to reveal all of the source code. I still use some, like discord for instance simply because I have friends I cannot get off of there. Element with their new Spaces feature has made it usable enough for me to recommend to anyone. Maybe I just don't see the issues because I am used to janky UIs? But I think it is very slick and easy to use at this point. But regardless, I don't want to confuse the conversation about what is easy to use with what someone is used to.

    1 Reply Last reply
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  • marcusquinnM Offline
    marcusquinnM Offline
    marcusquinn
    wrote on last edited by marcusquinn
    #82

    There's another element to choice of communications apps, and that's the democratic vote that it represents as to whether you endorse a company and its ethics or not.

    Facebook raises it's value from the number of users and interactions, reduce that and you reduce their value to advertisers and shareholding investors.

    Full privacy is almost impossible - but portability and freedom of choice should be encouraged, and even one movement away from a tech giant is a small win against their mindshare domination aspirations the seem to presume in trying to become an essential utility for most.

    We're not here for a long time - but we are here for a good time :)
    Jersey/UK
    Work & Ecommerce Advice: https://brandlight.org
    Personal & Software Tips: https://marcusquinn.com

    M 1 Reply Last reply
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  • M Offline
    M Offline
    martin
    replied to marcusquinn on last edited by
    #83

    @marcusquinn

    Thanks; this caused me to think of Mike Masnik's paper emphasizing endorsement of protocols instead of platforms, might perhaps be relevant / interesting.

    https://knightcolumbia.org/content/protocols-not-platforms-a-technological-approach-to-free-speech

    marcusquinnM 1 Reply Last reply
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  • marcusquinnM Offline
    marcusquinnM Offline
    marcusquinn
    replied to martin on last edited by
    #84

    @martin Yup, also reminds me of the quote to paraphrase; "Bad things happen when good people do nothing."

    We're not here for a long time - but we are here for a good time :)
    Jersey/UK
    Work & Ecommerce Advice: https://brandlight.org
    Personal & Software Tips: https://marcusquinn.com

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