How to Take Cloudron Even Further

[A Former User]

Clearly Cloudron wins in server management. I am wondering what the next step is?

[infogulch]

You may be interested in the What's coming in Cloudron 7.0 thread if you haven't seen it.

Notably (imo):

• (7.0) Multihost support. i.e you can have many servers and have a single dashboard to manage users, apps and domains - https://git.cloudron.io/cloudron/box/-/issues/142

[A Former User]

@infogulch Yes that does take it further for sure. Thanks.

[marcusquinn]

Apps Wishlist. The roadmap there looks like a decade right now.

Currently the options are:

• Hope
• Sponsor, with no real way to distribute costs so the budget for one person or company is disproportionate, so back to hope.
• Learn, there's enough to learn in testing & using and app.

There's dozens of experienced testers and implementers here, and a few app packagers. Maybe this whole area needs a more commercial and attractive motivation a-la bug bounty.

[uiguy]

Hi,

New user here.... I am in need of a little convincing regarding cloudron as I am battling to see that value proposition.

I am currently reviewing options for our company's cloud hosting strategy.

After having a good dig around, it would seem that cloudron simply provides a UI layer over docker and then throws in some network management capabilities and email...

I am battling to see why we would rely on cloudron and the associated app store is quite limited as opposed to something like running docker direct?

I appreciate that there is the package maintenance aspect, but from what I have seen about the support structure, there seem to only be 2/3 guys supporting the maintenance... how can this be enough to support an entire app ecosystem

I guess, what I am in need of, is some education as to why I would advise we invest in cloudron when we could simply deploy docker with something like portainer and watchtower for package maintenance?

I don't mean to sound negative at all, but I simply want to understand what the value proposition is, especially if I have to compare the available packages on docker vs cloudron?

Thanks for any insights you are able to provide.... from what I have seen, cloudron does look super slick easy to use, I am just worried about what the cons (if any) are....

Thanks

[A Former User]

Evidently cloudron didn’t go far enough for OP

[A Former User]

@uiguy Automation and ease of use. Eliminates a lot of the grunt work needed to set up a server. That’s pretty much it. Obviously if one has the technical knowledge, time, and willpower to do all of this manually then the value of cloudron doesn’t really matter. It’s all about how much work you want to do.

My use case, I do consulting and hosting out of Edmonton, Canada and with my day job and other responsibilities I don't think I honestly would be able to do what I do without Cloudron if I also value my sanity.

[ruihildt]

@uiguy Probably it doesn't fit your usecase.

Cloudron initial goal (and what I feel is its main value) is to easily setup a private cloud. Its features are still getting developed and are getting more useful for the hosting space.

I personally started using it as a private cloud, and then used it as hosting for some clients and it fits my usecase well.

I'd still encourage you to calculate how many hours you would spend doing maintenance with Portainer and such. Then compare what your time is worth with Cloudron pricing and maintenance.

Maybe it will be a net benefit, maybe not.

[BrutalBirdie]

@uiguy okay lets start

@uiguy said in How to Take Cloudron Even Further:

I appreciate that there is the package maintenance aspect, but from what I have seen about the support structure, there seem to only be 2/3 guys supporting the maintenance... how can this be enough to support an entire app ecosystem

Everyone having the APP DEV to their name is a Cloudron App Developer, so in extend a supporter of the ecosystem.
For example I am the maintenance guy of the Greenlight app.
My job circles around Greenlight and BigBlueButton as well. So its in my own best interest to provide updates which just works without any hustle since I have a lot of Greenlights running for customers and doing something that does NOT work effects my own work

Another example would be Dolibarr from @erics who is a developer of Dolibarr.

@uiguy said in How to Take Cloudron Even Further:

I am battling to see why we would rely on cloudron and the associated app store is quite limited as opposed to something like running docker direct?

Reliability and Repeatable.
I have restored multible Cloudrons from full backups, single app backups and literally never had it fail me.
Having the option to roll back to the previous version with 1-Click. What a dream!
Not to mention the package / backup policy to minimize the backup footprint.
For example my self maintained Valheim Gameserver App where we discuss about what is backup worthy.

Having the option to sync Cloudron to an external LDAP also just adds another cherry on top.
Having multible Cloudrons synced to a central LDAP. Sweet.
User und Customer management from 1 place deployed to X Servers with Groups and Permissions.

@uiguy said in How to Take Cloudron Even Further:

I guess, what I am in need of, is some education as to why I would advise we invest in cloudron when we could simply deploy docker with something like portainer and watchtower for package maintenance?

I don't mean to sound negative at all, but I simply want to understand what the value proposition is, especially if I have to compare the available packages on docker vs cloudron?

That is the best part, you don't have to!
You can make your own app, you are NOT limited.
The so called gilded cage with Cloudron is the knowledge you wish to have about the system.
Gitlab of every app https://git.cloudron.io/cloudron

There is more which I could mention, but these are just some thoughts of mine.
Check out this topic where people tell what are your favourite things features about cloudron

[Mastadamus]

@brutalbirdie said in How to Take Cloudron Even Further:

There is more which I could mention, but these are just some thoughts of mine.
Check out this topic where peo

I think Cloudron is perfect entry point for a soft landing into self hosting. I'm a fulltime student, father, husband etc. and It would be very hard for me to be able to learn, implement, secure, manage all the services I'm using through Cloudron right now in my spare time. If it was my dedicated job? Sure I'd get it done, but I needed something that I could get working quickly, securely, and stable. Cloudron is pretty good in that regard. It lets me get something working, quickly then if I want to go further I can. For example- Adguard Home. I installed that in Cloudron. I liked it but I wanted to see if I could put it on my router with docker. I did that. In the meantime I had a working Adguard Home app running through Cloudron to test and eval.

[luckow]

@uiguy said in How to Take Cloudron Even Further:

I am currently reviewing options for our company's cloud hosting strategy.

I didn't get the idea of "our company's cloud hosting strategy"? Do you mean something as a SaaS for your customers or something for your own needs? What does "cloud strategy" means? Do you host your tools in your office and want to transfer them into a datacenter? Or are you pursuing plans to scale to infinity?

In case of SaaS - You can use Cloudron in different ways. Offering apps to your customers on a kind of "shared hosting" (one Cloudron instance with x times installed apps (like WordPress, rocket.chat, matomo ..)). Or a set of apps on one Cloudron instance per customer. You are able to make upselling through bigger virtual machines or backup storage or trainings or configuration. Good news: there is the Cloudron CLI. If you are familiar with tools like Ansible, you have a perfect deployment for every use case.

In case of your own need. Start with one Cloudron instance and use it for the basics. Add your users to the LDAP, install a few apps. After that, each user from the LDAP has a user account in the app (if you want it and the app supports LDAP). Later, you install a second, third or fourth instance of Cloudron, because your company relies on uncomplicated system administration, reliable availability and always up-to-date versions of the apps used without any further action.

Is that a "cloud hosting strategy"? I don't know.
Is giving Cloudron a try cheaper instead of creating & maintaining your own environment? Yep. The price plan for companies starts at 60$ / month.

[marcusquinn]

@uiguy It's all opportunity-cost - just because we can, it doesn't mean we should if someone else has already done and there's a community with a vested interest in continuing to.

My team (not part of Cloudron, just fans and occasional contributors) are crack-commando developers, the last think I want them consumed with is dev-ops wheel reinventing when we have a world of wonder in evolving organisations based based on the apps themselves.

I can replace the clutch in my car, build furniture, clean my own house, do accounts and go to the shops to buy something - not really the best use of time nowadays though.

I've seen almost every alternative under the sun in this space, but where do you stop?

Many have said similar - no-one has yet shown any of us a faster way to achieve the same and repeatedly.

All open minds here - it's easy to throw technology names around, we all have search engines for that too - experience tells me claims & realities often differ.

If you want to live in dev-ops, then Terraform K8S with GitLab CI.

If you can do everything Cloudron will do faster, I'll personally pay for your licence for wasting your time.

Proof is in the pudding though, you either try something and learn or you don't.

No-one's here to convince anyone of anything, we just all have places to be, people to help, and value the time-saving, community for just getting on with minimum drama.

This ain't the corporate political brand name dropping world here - in fact I've found it to be a community of doers that don't wear or care for any brand names. We're here for a good time, not a promotion, pitch or long time. No-one's paid to help anyone, karma is the currency of a community greater than any one opinion, and I'm here to be enlightened, challenged and proven wrong to be right next time.

I once sat in a cafe, overhearing frustrated project managers for a bank talking about abandoning a £2m investment in an Azure & Dynamics setup because it was never ending and a constant turnover of "certified" junior developers.

They could have had it all done and moved on with something like Odoo - but hey, some people still say that no-one ever got fired for recommending Microsoft! Or did they?