VPN Options Review
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It would be great to be able to host a VPN (Virtual Private Network) of your own using Cloudron. It could save people money and encourage people to use Cloudron. Which software might best help somebody run their own VPN?
There is a review here, but perhaps there are stronger options not mentioned:
https://www.webservertalk.com/openvpn-alternatives
Algo is rated well by some people:
https://github.com/trailofbits/algo -
@LoudLemur just wondering : are you not happy with OpenVPN already here ?
I use it.
Works well enough. -
@timconsidine , Hi! I am glad to hear from you. Thanks for this good question.
I wasn't actually using Cloudron as a VPN. When I try it, it seems to work well enough, though I can't readily switch geo-locations or IP address, I believe.
I liked your question because it prompted me to try what I had never considered. I am somewhat familiar with Cloudron, more so than somebody who has only just heard about it or encountered the homepage for the first time.
If you find a deal, a VPN from a famous company is about $50 a year. I think one could rent a server for a year and run 2 Cloudron apps for that, couldn't you? Why don't more people think of this?
If you pay for Cloudron for 1 year, it is $180 ($15/month). That is a big difference from $50. Lets call it $60/year or $5/month for math's sake. Many people think it is definitely ok, and very sensible to pay $5 a month for a VPN.
How about Cloudron introduce an offering: "CloudronVPN"? When people visited e.g. Linode, and looked at their selection in the Application Marketplace, alongside the various other applications, they would of course see Cloudron, and next to it would be another application "CloudronVPN".
They would setup their CloudronVPN and would be running their server on e.g. Linode. They could install an OpenVPN client to connect to their CloudronVPN too. The price of this application would be very much less than the regular Cloudron application. There would be only a shared CPU maybe and a tiny bit of Memory. The range of additional applications you could run on it would be restricted too.
What the CloudronVPN dashboard could do is show the additional available options for installation that would be available, if they instead chose the regular Cloudron application, at the regular price. People would discover Cloudron this way, I think.
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@LoudLemur said in VPN Options Review:
though I can't readily switch geo-locations or IP address
That is because to switch these, you need multiple installations of vpn servers. Whereas one cloudron can only give you a single external ip.
@LoudLemur said in VPN Options Review:
If you pay for Cloudron for 1 year, it is $180 ($15/month). That is a big difference from $50. Lets call it $60/year or $5/month for math's sake. Many people think it is definitely ok, and very sensible to pay $5 a month for a VPN.
But if people can already install two apps for free, what would users gain from such a special subscription? The part that you are missing in your calculation is also the price of the server.
Competing just on the price with a big SaaS is nearly impossible ihmo.
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@fbartels
Lets say that like very many people, I am hunting for a VPN and screening potential solutions. I haven't heard of Cloudron. Without a CloudronVPN listing, I would be unlikely to discover Cloudron in my screen. With a CloudronVPN option listed, it might be shortlisted.To reduce friction, Cloudron could partner with a server company, like Linode, or Vultr or some other company, and have an instance created on purchase of the CloudronVPN. The user would be sent a link to OpenVPN clients and provided the login details of their (now running) VPN instance.
I am not sure how attractive a proposition this might be, or even economically viable, but the concept might be developed.
Here is another option, unrelated to VPNs: Gaming.
A lot of people have fantastic gaming PCs, with loads of memory and fast, multi-core CPUs. (Alas, most such systems run M$FT!) Anyway, how about the following, which isn't perfect but might be "good enough" for hobbyists and computer nerds:
Run Cloudron on you GNU+Linux Gaming PC, also have a cheap VPS on a paid service, e.g. Linode. The gaming machine would do all the heavy lifting, the VPS would be what the public see of the services provided by Cloudron. It would act as a proxy.
You would only need the VPS proxy because a) such a powerful system would be too expensive to rent b) keeping traffic away from one's home/office.
Is it easy to setup something like that now? Maybe it is...
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@LoudLemur said in VPN Options Review:
I haven't heard of Cloudron. Without a CloudronVPN listing, I would be unlikely to discover Cloudron in my screen
Again: what would be the benefit of the user in regards to such a special subscription over just using the free tier of Cloudron?
If its just about being able to discover Cloudron better, then this is something that in my opinion can be solved by working on the description of Cloudron on these sites. Highlighting that it can be used to run a VPN server.
I doubt just having "VPN" in the name would be an immediate purchase decision (but then again, some users may work like that).
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@fbartels Thanks for looking at my suggestions.
Though Cloudron does make complex things very easy, does require some setting up and configuration. It is a bit intimidating for some and beyond what people want.
Think of your average TV watching person, instead of a computer user. They just want to pay, download, launch and have the service going. They neither want or need to see what goes on behind the scenes. We could make CloudronVPN for that sort of person.
Alongside their CloudronVPN, they could see that a Cloudron email was available too...
I expect you are very busy, but if you or somebody else could look at the idea of running Cloudron on a Gaming PC and having a small VPS for presenting pages to the WWW, I would like to hear it.
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@fbartels said in VPN Options Review:
Again: what would be the benefit of the user in regards to such a special subscription over just using the free tier of Cloudron?
I think there are HUGE numbers of people out there who truly just think "security = VPN" and thus constantly buy, and then are often disappointed, with the VPN offerings out there. I mean, GDddy is still in business, as just one example of the amount of ppl out there who just hear about a thing, decide they want or need that thing, and then buy it from whichever name is at the top of a list.
The only downside to the idea is that then the Cloudron team would be pulled aside by the 100s of questions about why this or that might not be working - exactly like the point about not being able to change location. Plus, what % of those users trying to access nasty things using "CloudronVPN" is needed for "Cloudron***" to get a bad name?
BUT, any of us could bundle and brand and offer such a VPN service!
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@LoudLemur VPNs are certainly misunderstood.
The advantages of a VPN service over a Cloudron VPN app are (1) they have multiple end-points, so you can choose where your traffic appears to come from, and (2) your traffic is aggregated with many others, so your individual traffic is less identifiable.
The disadvantage of a Cloudron is mostly the latter. There's considerably less traffic coming from that IP address (VPS or local home machine) so it is easier to track. Traffic may not identified to your actual public IP address, but it's still associated an IP address under your control and with limited traffic (in relative terms) more easily identifiable to you.
I use a Cloudron VPN in order to access resources on my office network. I am not tracking myself ! But if I do want to mask my traffic a little, I use ProtonVPN.
Another advantage of Cloudron VPN is that it usually has less IP bans. For example, today I had to check in on BA website, and it just would not work on a ProtonVPN end point, but was fine with my Cloudron VPN. Same goes sometimes for banking services.
There is generally no 'right' or 'wrong'. It's mostly about what use case you have. Which - as above - can change.
I'm interested in a Wireguard VPN on Cloudron as it is allegedly more traffic efficient. But I have not had issues with OpenVPN. So it's not critical for me.
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@timconsidine Thanks
This point you made about it becoming difficult to use a VPN sometimes is a good one. Increasingly, little by little, "they are coming for our VPNs". There are already complaints about this being discussed on social media.
https://teddit.net/r/vpn/top?t=monthPowerful corporations don't want us to exist on the internet anonymously. They are blacklisting commercial VPNs. Ordinary people have started experiencing the problems and are searching for solutions.
Lokinet is one attempt at providing a better solution than TOR (lower latency, no centralized authority). Perhaps that might be an additional string to a CloudronVPN bow.
