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    BigBlueButton - web conferencing system for on-line learning

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    • C
      cyberfreakde @jdaviescoates last edited by

      @jdaviescoates But if it is a docker container? I think it doesn't matter.

      jdaviescoates 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
      • jdaviescoates
        jdaviescoates last edited by

        2.3-alpha-4 is out:

        https://github.com/bigbluebutton/bigbluebutton/releases/tag/v2.3-alpha-4

        I use Cloudron with Gandi & Hetzner

        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
        • jdaviescoates
          jdaviescoates @cyberfreakde last edited by

          @cyberfreakde said in BigBlueButton - web conferencing system for on-line learning:

          I think it doesn't matter.

          I think it probably does matter, otherwise @staff likely would've started trying to package BBB already (rather than waiting for a stable version that runs on 18.04)

          I use Cloudron with Gandi & Hetzner

          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
          • girish
            girish Staff last edited by girish

            Technically speaking, @cyberfreakde is correct. It doesn't matter because container can even contain centos. But to keep our maintenance burden low, we only use Ubuntu 18 in containers. Mentally, this is the equivalent of having to maintain app packages for different distributions.

            robi 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
            • robi
              robi @girish last edited by

              @girish bbb-install.sh supports installing BigBlueButton 2.3 and coturn on Ubuntu 18.04.

              Life of Gratitude.
              Life of Advanced Technology

              BrutalBirdie 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
              • BrutalBirdie
                BrutalBirdie Staff @robi last edited by BrutalBirdie

                @robi said in BigBlueButton - web conferencing system for on-line learning:

                @girish bbb-install.sh supports installing BigBlueButton 2.3 and coturn on Ubuntu 18.04.

                Yes but 2.3 is not stable.

                TL;DR
                It's not time yet. ~ Sound warning!

                I also talked to Fred Dixon some weeks before last Christmas about the state of 2.3.

                Here a quote from him, which I gather from my memory (all statements without guarantee):

                We will not give a release date because we only ship a functional product and don't work with due dates.
                This only sets false expectations and leads to bad code.

                I can share this 2.3-draft where you could get some information about current state of 2.3.


                Lets talk BBB and turnserver.

                There is a turn addon default by Cloudron.
                Problem is, its a docker container cloudron/turn:1.1.0 running on port:

                listening-port=3478
                tls-listening-port=5349
                

                This turnserver is kinda useless.
                In short terms, a app is needed for turn, so the turn can listen to port 80/443.
                Why?
                Company / School with a firewall.
                Only Ports 80,443,22,993,587 outbound is allowed. (Everything else blocked).
                The turn server should now act like as a MITM (big empasis - like a) so this client can use webRTC via turn.
                But since it's running on port 5349/3478 its useless.

                afaik girish and nebulon are aware of this but it's not a big priority right now. (Which I fully support)
                Also BBB takes a lot of resources. For running small sessions 2-5 People or even 10 it could work out.
                But since BBB is running alongside other Apps this could lead to quite a problem if to many people turn on their webcam.

                Like my work? Consider donating a beer 🍻 Cheers!

                girish 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                • girish
                  girish Staff @BrutalBirdie last edited by girish

                  @brutalbirdie said in BigBlueButton - web conferencing system for on-line learning:

                  afaik girish and nebulon are aware of this but it's not a big priority right now. (Which I fully support)

                  Actually, I am just fixing this for 6.1. I am trying out https://jitsi.github.io/handbook/docs/devops-guide/turn and hopefully that works. The main motivation for us is to move to using kopano meet internally and I suspect maybe this use of different port is what is causing many issues (which have been reported on this fourm). I hope the config there works because https://github.com/coturn/coturn/issues/43 was initially closed stating it was not possible (i.e turn requires a dedicated server to run on 443!)

                  doodlemania2 jdaviescoates 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 4
                  • doodlemania2
                    doodlemania2 App Dev @girish last edited by

                    @girish That might also help nextcloud talk high perf backend too.

                    BrutalBirdie 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                    • BrutalBirdie
                      BrutalBirdie Staff @doodlemania2 last edited by BrutalBirdie

                      @doodlemania2 ARG I think I read something about nextcloud talk not support turnservers with TLS?

                      "(D)TLS is currently not supported by Nextcloud Talk and does not have any real security benefit anyway. For more details see the changelog below." -- https://help.nextcloud.com/t/howto-setup-nextcloud-talk-with-turn-server/30794/93703

                      So be aware of this.

                      Like my work? Consider donating a beer 🍻 Cheers!

                      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                      • robi
                        robi last edited by

                        What we really need then is a TURN server integrated with Nginx.

                        Doing a quick search I haven't found an extension for Nginx, but then I thought why not front the TURN server we have with Nginx as a proxy load balancer which can include port 80/443 and UDP ports.

                        This post goes into the configuration of something like that:
                        https://stackoverflow.com/questions/51566225/nginx-load-balancing-a-turn-server

                        @staff could easily adapt this to handle non HTTP traffic via the TURN server and the rest going to the Apps.

                        Life of Gratitude.
                        Life of Advanced Technology

                        girish 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                        • girish
                          girish Staff @robi last edited by girish

                          @robi Yes, see the jitsi handbook link in my previous post.

                          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                          • jdaviescoates
                            jdaviescoates @girish last edited by

                            @girish said in BigBlueButton - web conferencing system for on-line learning:

                            Actually, I am just fixing this for 6.1. I am trying out https://jitsi.github.io/handbook/docs/devops-guide/turn and hopefully that works.

                            Did this get into 6.1?

                            I use Cloudron with Gandi & Hetzner

                            girish 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                            • girish
                              girish Staff @jdaviescoates last edited by

                              @jdaviescoates unfortunately, no

                              1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                              • luckow
                                luckow translator last edited by

                                Hi,

                                from time to time there is an app request for jitsi & BigBlueButton here in the forum. I would like to throw my 2 cents into this discussion.

                                First: We need a turn server on port 443 and 80 to help people join conferences. There are so many stupid networks / firewalls that a turn server is mandatory. Good news: We have a turn server as an app on Cloudron. Maybe later, it's possible to configure this app.

                                Second: What is the background to this request? A video conference with friends? Say up to 10 people on the server? A combination of moodle and BigBlueButton for your local school? All my experience with video conferencing for larger groups brings me to the conclusion: forget these apps on Cloudron. They are hungry. In terms of RAM, CPU and bandwidth. The underlying software stack is real-time critical. Better use bare metal instead of cheap VMs. For schools, you need a cluster of BBB nodes and an upstream load balancer. Because of latency, you need a hosting provider close to most of the people using the video conference. For really huge conferences you need a dedicated 10 Gbit network. You need a lot of customisation under the hood. In short, to have a reliable infrastructure for videoconferencing, you need a lot of time to dig deep into the subject.

                                (My) conclusion: We have Kopano Meet as an app. Let's make this app better for our use case (having a self hosted videoconference for our family and friends meetings). We have Greenlight as a frontend for dedicated BigBlueButton infrastructure. We can use Moodle, Nextcloud and WordPress as alternative frontends for BBB servers. We have Grafana and Prometheus for the metrics of BBB servers. We can use Statping.

                                Good news is:

                                The installation process for a dedicated BBB server is painless.
                                https://github.com/bigbluebutton/bbb-install

                                Wait for the configurable turn app on Cloudron or install a coturn yourself.

                                1. Click yourself a dedicated bare metal. Let's say https://www.hetzner.com/de/dedicated-rootserver/ax41-nvme
                                2. Install ubuntu 16 on it.
                                3. SSH into it
                                4. wget -qO- https://ubuntu.bigbluebutton.org/bbb-install.sh | bash -s -- -w -v xenial-22 -s bbb.example.com -e info@example.com -c <hostname>:<secret>
                                5. Install Greenlight on Cloudron
                                6. Take the output of bbb-conf --secret and put it into .env of Greenlight.
                                7. Restart the Greenlight app.
                                8. Happy videoconferencing with many users.

                                For a better understanding of "What's going on?" install https://github.com/greenstatic/bigbluebutton-exporter to your BBB instance and add Grafana and Prometheus to your Cloudron.

                                The basic installation of a dedicated Jitsi instance is also trouble-free.
                                https://jitsi.github.io/handbook/docs/devops-guide/devops-guide-quickstart

                                Since my larger conferences rely on BigBlueButton, I didn't feel the need to dig deep into jitsi's scaling. That's why I've installed jitsi meet on cheap VMs for up to 30 users.
                                But if you want to go deeper into this topic, here is a link to a talk by a maintainer of jitsi meet -> https://fosdem.org/2021/schedule/event/jitsi_scaling/

                                Pronouns: he/him | Primary language: German

                                ? girish 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 9
                                • ?
                                  A Former User @luckow last edited by A Former User

                                  @luckow These are good points. I don't think its a bad idea to have the option (like with Jitsi) still but BBB specifically should stay out. Especially when considering how resource hungry it is and that it requires older versions of Ubuntu. That being said Cloudron should probably never be used for truly large scale conferences simply because those tasks are better suited for distributed setups behind a loadbalancer as you said.

                                  I did also want to mention that there are cloudron instances that have more resources available. I'm running an i3-9100 and 128GB of RAM. My CPU and 300Mbps network bandwidth are the bottlenecks now and would still not be suited to this sort of high load scenario (large conferences)

                                  jimcavoli jdaviescoates 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 3
                                  • jimcavoli
                                    jimcavoli App Dev @Guest last edited by

                                    @atrilahiji I'm increasingly inclined to agree - and the Greenlight interface being available and usable by Cloudron LDAP seems like the best of all worlds for that split. That's a really elegant solution that meets needs in my opinion for anyone who needs heavier-duty conferencing.

                                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 3
                                    • girish
                                      girish Staff @luckow last edited by

                                      @luckow Thanks! I put your instructions here - https://docs.cloudron.io/apps/greenlight/#installing-bigbluebutton

                                      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                                      • jdaviescoates
                                        jdaviescoates @Guest last edited by

                                        @atrilahiji said in BigBlueButton - web conferencing system for on-line learning:

                                        BBB specifically should stay out. Especially when considering how resource hungry it is and that it requires older versions of Ubuntu.

                                        BBB 2.3 that'll work on Ubuntu 18.04 is getting there (currently alpha-8) and with Cloudron 7.0 we should be getting multi-host support, which would make it easier to give BBB it's own server.

                                        I'd still love it on here! πŸ˜„

                                        I use Cloudron with Gandi & Hetzner

                                        ? 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 3
                                        • ?
                                          A Former User @jdaviescoates last edited by A Former User

                                          @jdaviescoates yeah same. For me it’s mostly because I’m cheap. If I can avoid paying for a VPS I want to try. Everything I run now (except for my BBB backend) is on my home server

                                          jdaviescoates 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                          • jdaviescoates
                                            jdaviescoates @Guest last edited by

                                            @atrilahiji heh, fair enough. Like lots of people I don't have good enough internet at home to be able to do that πŸ™‚

                                            I use Cloudron with Gandi & Hetzner

                                            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                            • jeau
                                              jeau App Dev last edited by jeau

                                              Version 2.3 just released
                                              https://github.com/bigbluebutton/bigbluebutton/releases/tag/v2.3.0

                                              But the documentation is not yet up to date, especially about the installation which is now possible on Ubuntu 18.04 and about the improvements and new features.

                                              jeau 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                              • jeau
                                                jeau App Dev @jeau last edited by

                                                @jeau read also this post 5 most exciting newly added features of BigBlueButton Version 2.3

                                                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                                • luckow
                                                  luckow translator last edited by

                                                  Use the "official" ansible role for the deployment -> https://github.com/ebbba-org/ansible-role-bigbluebutton/tree/develop/2.3

                                                  Pronouns: he/him | Primary language: German

                                                  luckow 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                                                  • luckow
                                                    luckow translator @luckow last edited by

                                                    Presentation foto for the new release. Taken from the release party. b9b14336-65a9-4fa9-8f52-ebc1af923cbd-grafik.png

                                                    Pronouns: he/him | Primary language: German

                                                    girish 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 3
                                                    • girish
                                                      girish Staff @luckow last edited by

                                                      @luckow So, this one adds ubuntu 18/20 support?

                                                      luckow 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                                      • luckow
                                                        luckow translator @girish last edited by

                                                        @girish ubuntu 18 only.

                                                        Pronouns: he/him | Primary language: German

                                                        doodlemania2 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                                        • doodlemania2
                                                          doodlemania2 App Dev @luckow last edited by

                                                          @luckow my BBB as a service is almost ready - if anyone is interested, DM me

                                                          doodlemania2 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 3
                                                          • doodlemania2
                                                            doodlemania2 App Dev @doodlemania2 last edited by

                                                            BBB as a service is now available for testing... DM me if you'd like to hook your Greenlights up to it.

                                                            luckow 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                                            • luckow
                                                              luckow translator @doodlemania2 last edited by

                                                              @doodlemania2 where are the server instances located? I only have instances in germany. So no experience with other countries πŸ™‚
                                                              If you need a nice default presentation which explains the BBB-UI go to Presentation_Slides -> BBB-default-slides_en.pdf https://cloud.ebbba.org/s/Q2i9FqZaPdjQKmM

                                                              Pronouns: he/him | Primary language: German

                                                              doodlemania2 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                                                              • doodlemania2
                                                                doodlemania2 App Dev @luckow last edited by

                                                                @luckow I have one in Southern California and another in Dallas, TX. Everything except presentations work (screen sharing, polls, chat, voice/video, presence, CC, etc all good). Will figure out presentations in a day or so.

                                                                DM me if you wanna give it a spin.

                                                                BrutalBirdie 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                                                • BrutalBirdie
                                                                  BrutalBirdie Staff @doodlemania2 last edited by

                                                                  @doodlemania2

                                                                  Everything except presentations work

                                                                  Did you use ansible? I just fixed a permission issue with bbb-web and bbb-html5 which blocked presentation parsing.

                                                                  Like my work? Consider donating a beer 🍻 Cheers!

                                                                  doodlemania2 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                                                  • doodlemania2
                                                                    doodlemania2 App Dev @BrutalBirdie last edited by

                                                                    @brutalbirdie nah, good ol docker compose

                                                                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                                                    • P
                                                                      privsec last edited by

                                                                      Any updates on a cloudron deploy-able package? I'd pay a separate fee for this app on a separate server, no questions asked.

                                                                      jdaviescoates 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                                                      • jdaviescoates
                                                                        jdaviescoates @privsec last edited by

                                                                        @privsec I note it's one of the apps newly auto installable on Hetzner Cloud

                                                                        a8edfe02576b44a6a8950dff89f6c2abd9ca86015829eeb7a3fd4effa30750b6.png

                                                                        31c0fff8d2fee8fa371c32092e42855caa9210164164d3d9f7e3bd9b728bba1c.png

                                                                        I use Cloudron with Gandi & Hetzner

                                                                        BrutalBirdie P 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                                        • BrutalBirdie
                                                                          BrutalBirdie Staff @jdaviescoates last edited by BrutalBirdie

                                                                          @jdaviescoates but its bad, really bad! - And Outdated! 2.3.0 < 2.3.10
                                                                          I maintain the official Ansible role for BBB and stay in close contact to at least 25 Admins from universities in Germany.
                                                                          They basically uniformly agreed that the Hetzner BBB app is unusable for any real work with BBB.

                                                                          The Ansible Role:
                                                                          https://github.com/ebbba-org/ansible-role-bigbluebutton

                                                                          Like my work? Consider donating a beer 🍻 Cheers!

                                                                          P micmc jdaviescoates 3 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 4
                                                                          • P
                                                                            privsec @jdaviescoates last edited by

                                                                            This post is deleted!
                                                                            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                                            • P
                                                                              privsec @BrutalBirdie last edited by

                                                                              @brutalbirdie said in BigBlueButton - web conferencing system for on-line learning:

                                                                              @jdaviescoates but its bad, really bad!
                                                                              I maintain the official Ansible role for BBB and stay in close contact to at least 25 Admins from universities in Germany.
                                                                              They basically uniformly agreed that the Hetzner BBB app is unusable for for any real work with BBB.

                                                                              The Ansible Role:
                                                                              https://github.com/ebbba-org/ansible-role-bigbluebutton

                                                                              Darn it. Was really hoping for a major win.

                                                                              BrutalBirdie 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                                              • BrutalBirdie
                                                                                BrutalBirdie Staff @privsec last edited by

                                                                                @privsec use the ansible role and you have a major win.

                                                                                I currently maintain multiple BBB clusters, Load-Balancers and Turn servers all via ansible and my work time for that is pretty much zero thanks to ansible.

                                                                                Like my work? Consider donating a beer 🍻 Cheers!

                                                                                P 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 4
                                                                                • P
                                                                                  privsec @BrutalBirdie last edited by

                                                                                  @brutalbirdie Thanks for the fast reply, can I DM you with some questions?

                                                                                  BrutalBirdie 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                                                  • BrutalBirdie
                                                                                    BrutalBirdie Staff @privsec last edited by

                                                                                    @privsec sure!

                                                                                    Like my work? Consider donating a beer 🍻 Cheers!

                                                                                    doodlemania2 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                                                    • micmc
                                                                                      micmc @BrutalBirdie last edited by

                                                                                      @brutalbirdie said in BigBlueButton - web conferencing system for on-line learning:

                                                                                      @jdaviescoates but its bad, really bad! - And Outdated! 2.3.0 < 2.3.10
                                                                                      I maintain the official Ansible role for BBB and stay in close contact to at least 25 Admins from universities in Germany.
                                                                                      They basically uniformly agreed that the Hetzner BBB app is unusable for for any real work with BBB.

                                                                                      The Ansible Role:
                                                                                      https://github.com/ebbba-org/ansible-role-bigbluebutton

                                                                                      Wow that's awesome thanks for sharing this Ansible playbook.

                                                                                      I'm in the process of starting to learn Ansible myself as it is a great time saving tool for managing servers.

                                                                                      And now I've a great "major win" to start with. Pretty cool! πŸ™‚

                                                                                      You think you can share some more?

                                                                                      Cheers!
                                                                                      Andy


                                                                                      https://marketingtechnology.agency
                                                                                      For cutting edge web technologies

                                                                                      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                                                      • doodlemania2
                                                                                        doodlemania2 App Dev @BrutalBirdie last edited by

                                                                                        @brutalbirdie Could yall include me too? I'm offering it (BBB) to a few folks as a small teeny service and it seems to be working okay/decent. About to add SIP support. Would love to learn more about how ya'll are approaching it.

                                                                                        BrutalBirdie 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                                                                        • BrutalBirdie
                                                                                          BrutalBirdie Staff @doodlemania2 last edited by

                                                                                          @doodlemania2 @micmc

                                                                                          Top notch roles from https://galaxy.ansible.com/geerlingguy
                                                                                          https://www.youtube.com/user/geerlingguy
                                                                                          Consider donating to him πŸ˜‰

                                                                                          Like my work? Consider donating a beer 🍻 Cheers!

                                                                                          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 5
                                                                                          • jdaviescoates
                                                                                            jdaviescoates @BrutalBirdie last edited by

                                                                                            @brutalbirdie they may have updated, that's an old screenshot, but many thanks for the heads up anyway. Are you aware of meet.coop ? I'm a member and think it'd be great to have you involved too! πŸ™‚πŸ‘

                                                                                            I use Cloudron with Gandi & Hetzner

                                                                                            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
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