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    Pi Hole - network-wide ad blocking

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    • ?
      A Former User last edited by

      For "Pi Hole" read "Pi-hole"

      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
      • necrevistonnezr
        necrevistonnezr @girish last edited by

        @girish said in Pi Hole - network-wide ad blocking:

        Looks like this can be easily packaged as an app once we have UDP support in Cloudron. https://git.cloudron.io/cloudron/box/issues/504

        Since this issue has been closed - can we now have pi-hole on Cloudron?

        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
        • girish
          girish Staff last edited by

          This is easy to get on Cloudron indeed. Two outstanding issues are:

          • Cloudron currently does not allow apps to use port < 1024. DNS requires port 53. This is fixable, I guess.
          • Exposing Pi-Hole on port 53 would mean, anyone can access it, not just you. DNS has no auth mechanism afaik. So, I can start using your Pi-Hole server as well as the DNS. Not sure if that is good/bad. Maybe with some firewall rules we can make it so that it is IP locked.
          O 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
          • O
            odie @girish last edited by

            @girish Would be nice to either have the possibility of keeping it open, or (my preferred option) to be able to add IP rules for oneself (ie. add rules so I can choose IPs/IP-ranges that could access this Pi-Hol).

            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
            • imc67
              imc67 translator last edited by imc67

              @girish it would be great to have Pi-hole in Cloudron and I agree with you it should be save so it would be great to have it together with WireGuard.

              Is it possible to make a Cloudron-app with Pi-hole in VPN so you can make use of it anywhere AND safe!?

              Kind regards,
              Marcel.

              1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 3
              • hiyukoim
                hiyukoim translator last edited by

                Upvoted! I'd love to see Pi-hole on Cloudron.

                imc67 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                • M
                  Marta Hernández last edited by girish

                  I love getting to know more about Pi Hole: blocking ads throughout the network, it is very useful for me that I am starting in this. Thank you

                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                  • imc67
                    imc67 translator @hiyukoim last edited by

                    @hiyukoim this is only possible/safe behind a VPN server like OpenVPN or even better WireGuard. I would really like to see an app with Pi-Hole and WireGuard.

                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                    • luckow
                      luckow translator last edited by

                      Sorry to ask. I don't understand the use case. Why do you need Pi-hole on Cloudron?
                      For your local network and 53 portforward?
                      For (potential) ads/bugs inside apps from the appstore?
                      For your local network with a local Cloudron instance?
                      ???

                      Pronouns: he/him | Primary language: German

                      yusf 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                      • yusf
                        yusf @luckow last edited by yusf

                        @luckow said in Pi Hole - network-wide ad blocking:

                        For your local network with a local Cloudron instance?

                        I think this, as I’ve read about several home-hosters.

                        luckow 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                        • luckow
                          luckow translator @yusf last edited by

                          @yusf Ok. That makes sense. (but it's not my use case) 🙂

                          Pronouns: he/him | Primary language: German

                          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                          • girish
                            girish Staff last edited by

                            We can also use it on a VPS and point the DNS to the VPS. Sure, dns queries are a bit slower but maybe websites load faster because of the ad block 🙂

                            luckow 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                            • luckow
                              luckow translator @girish last edited by

                              @girish yep. Perfectly understandable. But a raspberry pi costs $50, and you can install your smarthome system (e.g. homeassistant or openHAB.) on the same pi. And then it runs on your local network. I'm just thinking. 🙂

                              Pronouns: he/him | Primary language: German

                              1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                              • imc67
                                imc67 translator last edited by imc67

                                Pi-Hole on Cloudron is useless IMHO for only internal "filtering".

                                Only in combination with a VPN like WireGuard it's a perfect combination to be online, outside of your 'safe home wifi', without sniffing of mobile providers proxies and "free open wifi", and with a kind of safetynet by Pi-Hole.

                                @luckow yes I do have a RaspberryPi with Wireguard AND Pi-Hole at home, but as an extra "external" backup its very welcome (and very easy) to have Pi-Hole+WireGuard in a Cloudron app. 😉

                                Mallewax murgero 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 2
                                • doodlemania2
                                  doodlemania2 App Dev last edited by

                                  Actually, one could do this (if you know what you're doing) by offering the pihole externally. In order to be safe, you would want to make sure to whitelist ONLY the IPs coming in to connect to it you intend to allow, otherwise you open your self up to DNS hijacking. I do this now by exposing a pihole on Azure that only my home router can connect to. Works great. FWIW, I took a look at packaging pihole the other day, cause of my use case. It looks...possible, but there are a LOT of moving parts and it really wants some pretty low level access, so, challenges will persist.

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                                  • S
                                    savity last edited by

                                    looking really forward for PI-Hole and Wireguard really 🙂

                                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                                    • Mallewax
                                      Mallewax @imc67 last edited by Mallewax

                                      @imc67 @doodlemania2 Right now I am using this setup on a separate, cloud hosted VM. Wireguard and Pihole, configured so that the system can only be accessed over VPN, not by external parties. Works beautifully and would be so cool, if this was working on Cloudron.

                                      https://www.sethenoka.com/build-your-own-wireguard-vpn-server-with-pi-hole-for-dns-level-ad-blocking/

                                      Excellent idea and request. Thanks for bringing this up.

                                      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 3
                                      • girish
                                        girish Staff last edited by girish

                                        Currently, what is holding back pi-hole is a couple of Cloudron limitations:

                                        • Cloudron reserves port 53 (dns) on the server. Have to fix unbound to listen only on internal interfaces (we listen on 0.0.0.0 and rely on firewall and access control policies to block requests).

                                        • Some IP based firewall as @savity has been requesting in another thread. This is required to block requests to pi-hole to just your machines/network.

                                        imc67 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                        • imc67
                                          imc67 translator @girish last edited by

                                          @girish you don't have these issues if you combine with Wireguard.

                                          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 3
                                          • girish
                                            girish Staff last edited by

                                            @imc67 indeed. If we bundle them together, it's not a problem. Is this the "preferred" way to package pi-hole?

                                            Mallewax imc67 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 5
                                            • S
                                              savity last edited by savity

                                              yeah i mean it would be for me 🙂 i would never create pihole acessable for others its for private reasons vpn+pihole. So pihole would be listening, lets say on 10.9.0.0

                                              Maybe in the future the idea could to configure other apps only availaie in the same VPN Network

                                              1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                                              • Mallewax
                                                Mallewax @girish last edited by

                                                @girish @imc67 Same here, I think the combination is awesome and makes a lot of sense. PLEASE, PLEASE...Yes...:-)

                                                S 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                                                • S
                                                  savity @Mallewax last edited by

                                                  @Mallewax i think this would lead also to new people using cloudron 🙂

                                                  Mallewax 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                                                  • Mallewax
                                                    Mallewax @savity last edited by

                                                    @savity couldn’t agree more. For me it would be a killer feature. And would make for a nice campaign on Twitter, Reddit et. all. Just look how many people google this and try to establish it manually....this is a mainstream feature, that would be appreciated by the entire user base, much more than specific applications that appeal only to certain users.... my opinion

                                                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                                                    • imc67
                                                      imc67 translator @girish last edited by

                                                      @girish definately! 🙂

                                                      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                                      • marcusquinn
                                                        marcusquinn last edited by

                                                        Haha, Pie Hole / Cake Hole is British for your mouth, as in; shut your pie hole 😮

                                                        https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Pie Hole

                                                        We're not here for a long time - but we are here for a good time :)
                                                        Jersey/UK
                                                        Work & Ecommerce Advice: https://brandlight.org
                                                        Personal & Software Tips: https://marcusquinn.com

                                                        ? 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                        • ?
                                                          A Former User @marcusquinn last edited by

                                                          @marcusquinn
                                                          Pi-hole, not Pie hole

                                                          marcusquinn 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                          • marcusquinn
                                                            marcusquinn @Guest last edited by

                                                            @Hillside502 3.14159265359... hole 🙂

                                                            We're not here for a long time - but we are here for a good time :)
                                                            Jersey/UK
                                                            Work & Ecommerce Advice: https://brandlight.org
                                                            Personal & Software Tips: https://marcusquinn.com

                                                            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                            • T
                                                              timbo last edited by

                                                              How is the progress here?

                                                              o7

                                                              S 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                                              • S
                                                                savity @timbo last edited by

                                                                @timbo Yeah any information this ?

                                                                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                                • girish
                                                                  girish Staff last edited by

                                                                  Last I checked it was quite tricky to deploy pi-hole with docker. Does anyone have experience with this style of deployment? It was really made like a "distribution"/"OS" instead of a separate app.

                                                                  iamthefij 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                                  • iamthefij
                                                                    iamthefij App Dev @girish last edited by

                                                                    @girish It's pretty straightforward as far as I can tell. I've got two instances hosted via Docker on Raspberry Pis at my home.

                                                                    I agree with folks above suggesting though that it'd be best to expose only to internal services and likely inside a VPN. There is probably a decent way to do this in a single app, but I wonder if there is value in creating a new way to expose particular Apps to other apps via a shared network.

                                                                    This would allow exposing a Pi-Hole app that has no "public" ports to any VPN app (OpenVPN, Wireguard, etc) with an internal hostname (app name?).

                                                                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                                    • girish
                                                                      girish Staff last edited by

                                                                      @iamthefij So, let's say the VPN app had a way to set a custom name server and one could just edit some file and set it to the pi-hole app, would this be good enough already? Given that the OpenVPN app is custom anyway, we can even add a simple UI that allows a user to set the DNS server IP (as you say, this might be the internal host name since IP might be dynamic actually).

                                                                      This seems quite doable.

                                                                      iamthefij 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                                      • doodlemania2
                                                                        doodlemania2 App Dev last edited by

                                                                        I've got one up and running on a public endpoint, no sweat. I just set the server to only allow queries from my IP range, deny all by default.

                                                                        iamthefij 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                                        • iamthefij
                                                                          iamthefij App Dev @girish last edited by

                                                                          @girish yea, that's pretty much all that should be required. As long as the two containers can communicate via their internal host names, it should be sufficient.

                                                                          The other advantage here is that it enables you to use the DNS from a mobile phone. Otherwise whenever you switch to a new network you receive the networks DNS via DHCP.

                                                                          girish 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                                          • iamthefij
                                                                            iamthefij App Dev @doodlemania2 last edited by

                                                                            @doodlemania2 I'm not sure exactly what you've configured, but many folks do not have static IP addresses to do this with. Not only does my home network frequently change IP addresses, but my mobile network does as well.

                                                                            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                                            • imc67
                                                                              imc67 translator last edited by

                                                                              @Mallewax said in AdGuard - Network-wide ads & trackers blocking DNS server:

                                                                              Pihole plus Wireguard

                                                                              Let's vote more here: https://forum.cloudron.io/topic/1355/pi-hole-network-wide-ad-blocking

                                                                              In short why:

                                                                              WireGuard is a very fast, safe and stateless VPN, great with mobile apps to be ALWAYS CONNECTED via your own VPN & covered by the Pi-hole adfilter & security platform. Faster (mobile) connections (no more ads and bulky stuff) to your own safe VPN (no more sniffing by mobile providers or obscure VPN providers).

                                                                              Need to say more 😉

                                                                              1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                                                              • girish
                                                                                girish Staff @iamthefij last edited by

                                                                                @iamthefij For OpenVPN, I started a new thread - https://forum.cloudron.io/topic/3139/openvpn-admin-ui

                                                                                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                                                                • iamthefij
                                                                                  iamthefij App Dev last edited by

                                                                                  Cool! Do apps already have access to each other through the bridge? Or would that need to be made possible as well?

                                                                                  yusf 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                                                  • girish
                                                                                    girish Staff last edited by

                                                                                    While there is network connectivity between the apps (docker's icc is true), the apps do not know the internal IPs and thus cannot easily discover each other. We have to come up with some sort of standard hostname naming mechanism to allow easy configurability.

                                                                                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                                                                                    • yusf
                                                                                      yusf @iamthefij last edited by yusf

                                                                                      Being able to host Cloudron behind Wireguard in a way where apps would only be accessed through WG would be a nice feature for security-demanding deployments.

                                                                                      Edit: Sorry, wrong thread.

                                                                                      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                                                                                      • S
                                                                                        savity last edited by

                                                                                        Are there any news Regarding Wireguard and Pihole in Cloudron?

                                                                                        girish 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                                                                        • murgero
                                                                                          murgero App Dev @imc67 last edited by

                                                                                          @imc67 said in Pi Hole - network-wide ad blocking:

                                                                                          Only in combination with a VPN like WireGuard it's a perfect combination to be online, outside of your 'safe home wifi', without sniffing of mobile providers proxies and "free open wifi", and with a kind of safetynet by Pi-Hole.

                                                                                          This is a common misconception - Just because you are using a VPN does not mean you are completely safe. Sure you maybe safe from traffic sniffers at your local mcdonalds or starbucks, but a VPN that is tied to your name and a device that has other software on it like facebook, twitter, etc still makes you vulnerable to data leakage, tracking and more.

                                                                                          --
                                                                                          https://urgero.org
                                                                                          ~ Professional Nerd. Freelance Programmer. ~

                                                                                          marcusquinn 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                                                          • marcusquinn
                                                                                            marcusquinn @murgero last edited by

                                                                                            @murgero Exactly that! There's a reason why not one single bank in the world has "Login with Google/Facebook/Twitter" etc.

                                                                                            We're not here for a long time - but we are here for a good time :)
                                                                                            Jersey/UK
                                                                                            Work & Ecommerce Advice: https://brandlight.org
                                                                                            Personal & Software Tips: https://marcusquinn.com

                                                                                            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                                                                            • girish
                                                                                              girish Staff @savity last edited by girish

                                                                                              @savity I did give pi-hole a try but it was really hard to package from source easily. I managed to instead package the new kid in the block - AdGuard. Some reviews here https://home-assistant-guide.com/2020/09/26/adguard-home-vs-pi-hole-2020-two-ad-and-internet-tracker-blockers-compared/ and https://mariushosting.com/synology-adguard-vs-pi-hole/ . It requires some support from the platform, depending on time we might add it to Cloudron 6 (or the release after). https://forum.cloudron.io/topic/3075/adguard-network-wide-ads-trackers-blocking-dns-server is the forum topic for that.

                                                                                              S murgero 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 2
                                                                                              • S
                                                                                                savity @girish last edited by

                                                                                                @girish Sad to hear thath Pi-hole didn't workout but lets see how AdGuard is 😉 Thanks for your Work

                                                                                                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                                                                                • murgero
                                                                                                  murgero App Dev @girish last edited by

                                                                                                  @girish I have adguard installed via homeassistant on a RPi4 and it works just as pi-hole does. Admin UI looks similar as well. I'd suspect you will find little to no complaints on packaging adg or pih.

                                                                                                  --
                                                                                                  https://urgero.org
                                                                                                  ~ Professional Nerd. Freelance Programmer. ~

                                                                                                  girish 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                                                                                  • girish
                                                                                                    girish Staff @murgero last edited by

                                                                                                    @murgero Yes, it also seems adh has some important features like DoH.

                                                                                                    varunsridharan 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                                                                    • girish
                                                                                                      girish Staff last edited by

                                                                                                      Adguard Home will be available in Cloudron 6 - https://forum.cloudron.io/topic/3075/adguard-network-wide-ads-trackers-blocking-dns-server . It is similar to pi hole (and more feature rich).

                                                                                                      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 3
                                                                                                      • varunsridharan
                                                                                                        varunsridharan @girish last edited by

                                                                                                        @girish i would love to see PI-Hole in Cloudron.

                                                                                                        And option to setup Pihole with Android Private DNS which requires DNS-over-TLS

                                                                                                        and i wrote a quick setup script for Pihole DNS-over-TLS

                                                                                                        https://github.com/varunsridharan/pi-hole-android-private-dns/blob/main/pi-hole5.sh

                                                                                                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                                                                                        • girish
                                                                                                          girish Staff last edited by

                                                                                                          I have added an option to make the DNS server of the OpenVPN app configuration - https://forum.cloudron.io/topic/3875/adding-custom-dns-server . So, you can install AdGuard Home and OpenVPN and then make OpenVPN use AdGuard as the DNS server.

                                                                                                          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 3
                                                                                                          • girish
                                                                                                            girish Staff last edited by

                                                                                                            Just leaving a note here for people looking into pi-hole. Starting 6.2, Cloudron also supports DoT (DNS over TLS) in AdGuard Home. This makes it work out of the box in Android phones.

                                                                                                            jdaviescoates 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                                                                                            • jdaviescoates
                                                                                                              jdaviescoates @girish last edited by

                                                                                                              @girish so if I've got this right, I could AdGuard to stop any ads ever being shown on the Android tablet my kids use? (most are blocked already either using uBlock Origin in the browsers or e.g. NewPipe instead of YouTube - although I can't uninstall YT on this machine and no doubt the kids will find and open it at some point)

                                                                                                              Could I somehow achieve that using a Cloudron installed on a VPS, or is AdGuard something I'd need running on a machine at home? Thanks!

                                                                                                              I use Cloudron with Gandi & Hetzner

                                                                                                              necrevistonnezr 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                                                                              • necrevistonnezr
                                                                                                                necrevistonnezr @jdaviescoates last edited by

                                                                                                                @jdaviescoates
                                                                                                                yes, you can do that (mind you that you can filter ads based on domains etc - there are sneaky ads that you can’t catch with a DNS filter (e.g. if they come from the same domain as the content, etc). But it helps a lot.

                                                                                                                IMHO it’s easier though to just get a dedicated Raspberry Pi, put www.dietpi.com on it, and you should be good to go with Pi-Hole, Unbound, and encrypted DNS in minutes. It has A LOT of other apps as well including AdGuard Home (and many you won’t even find on Cloudron such as Wireguard, Home Assistant, Pydio, Plex, etc.) - though not dockerized - but I like to have this dedicated little device kept simple and not facing the internet.Just servicing the local network with some services.

                                                                                                                jdaviescoates 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                                                                                                                • jdaviescoates
                                                                                                                  jdaviescoates @necrevistonnezr last edited by

                                                                                                                  @necrevistonnezr thanks, so just be clear it sounds like I would need a machine at home to take advantage of this stuff, right?

                                                                                                                  Or is it somehow possible to use a VPS too?

                                                                                                                  Thanks!

                                                                                                                  I use Cloudron with Gandi & Hetzner

                                                                                                                  necrevistonnezr 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                                                                                  • necrevistonnezr
                                                                                                                    necrevistonnezr @jdaviescoates last edited by

                                                                                                                    @jdaviescoates yes, a „machine“ 🙂 at home (well, it’s just a tiny box)

                                                                                                                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
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