Outline - a Notion-like open source app

[jdaviescoates]

Team wiki, documentation, meeting notes, playbooks, onboarding, work logs, brainstorming, & more…

https://www.getoutline.com/
https://github.com/outline/outline

I first heard about it in this post by @girish who also points out that the developer doesn't seem too keen in getting LDAP support added, but I whilst I'd love LDAP support to be included, lots of existing Cloudron apps don't have it (Discourse, etc - we need a filter in the app store to be able to easily see which other apps) and so I don't think that should be a show stopper (whilst still being a nice to have if at all possible).

[scooke]

@jdaviescoates 3 months ago I took a stab at getting this running locally. Here is a link to my steps that I shared on a reddit post. It was tricky, but I got it running. However, when I tried online, both on a VPS (from DO?) as well as Heroku I ran into an authentication problem with Slack... and it seems like several others who tried this had the same problem. I find it tricky to troubleshoot because googling "slack" and "outline" nets you all kinds of documentation for outlining slack!

[jdaviescoates]

@scooke I'm guessing lots of people might want the Slack auth to work, personally I'd not be too bothered about that as I want my users to ditch Slack in preference for Rocket.Chat or other self hosted open source solutions

[scooke]

@jdaviescoates Oh, the app is setup to require the Slack auth. Without it you can't login. So, sort of a dealbreaker if you can't get it running self-hosted. I can't find the links at the moment but there were a few people out there who banged their heads against the wall trying to get it to work with no result. I imagine the makers have made it so people will just give in and pay for the hosted version.

[jdaviescoates]

@scooke said in Outline - a Notion-like open source app:

@jdaviescoates Oh, the app is setup to require the Slack auth. Without it you can't login

That is a bit shitty

Seems it also has Google login too

But yeah, ideally wouldn't want to use either

[A Former User]

Supposedly "open source" but has no native login --- Outline is taking the Mickey!

[jdaviescoates]

@Hillside502 looks like there is movement on this front

https://github.com/outline/outline/issues/1177#issuecomment-603672773

[yusf]

Can’t we just have that LDAP PR included in a Cloudron app package and call it a day?

[girish]

I think they are integrating passport auth. If that's integrated, LDAP is easy to add.

[3246]

I notion but never liked the fact I rely on a third party service for some personal data.

+1 for Outline

[marcusquinn]

Posted some similar alternatives here for interest:

https://forum.cloudron.io/topic/2220/notion-like-foss-app/24?_=1594590712165

[ianhyzy]

bumping this, looks like they're very close to merging passport.js changes: https://github.com/outline/outline/pull/1183

[marcusquinn]

@ianhyzy Nice, watching this one with interest!

[marcusquinn]

Just checked, don't see any progress on this unless I'm missing something?

[yusf]

@marcusquinn The action is in develop branch.

[lucidfox]

Any updates on getting Outline on to Cloudron?

I've been playing around with a hosted version, and have to say Outline seems very intuitive and easy to use, compared with some of the alternatives (on Cloudron and otherwise).

[jdaviescoates]

@lucidfox said in Outline - a Notion-like open source app:

Any updates on getting Outline on to Cloudron?

I think at present it still only possible to login with Google and Slack.

Apparently this is the current block:
https://github.com/outline/outline/issues/1317

[lucidfox]

@jdaviescoates mmm... that's a pity. hopefully they'll add other authentication options soon.

[jdaviescoates]

@lucidfox it looks like a relevant pull request adding other authentication methods has now been merged!

https://github.com/outline/outline/pull/1934

Now we just need someone to package it for Cloudron!

[A Former User]

I'd personally love to use this so I don't mind taking a crack at it. Can't until after this weekend though so if anyone else wants to go for it... go nuts.

[lucidfox]

@atrilahiji that would be brilliant! I don't have any packaging skills, but happy to help with testing or anything else.

[jdaviescoates]

@atrilahiji the developer said new versions come monthlyish around the 15ish and so a version with the new authentication method likely not available until after the weekend anyway.

And I'm not actually sure if it's ready for self-hosting yet (it wasn't initially designed for that) but be great for people here with relevant skills to take a look

[jdaviescoates]

@jdaviescoates said in Outline - a Notion-like open source app:

ready for self-hosting yet

It looks like there are still a few things to be done before the new authentication options are available:

https://github.com/outline/outline/projects/5

[jdaviescoates]

@jouel I think searching before posting is a great idea

There is already an App Wishlist post for Outline here:
https://forum.cloudron.io/post/8756

Seems it's not quite ready for self-hosting yet, but it's getting there

But yeah I agree it looks great

[infogulch]

Well it looks like it's possible to host Outline in docker, there is a docker compose file on github:

https://github.com/outline/outline/blob/main/docker-compose.yml

Notably, it uses postgres, redis, and an s3 api.

[jdaviescoates]

@infogulch yeah, but there is no local authentication yet https://github.com/outline/outline/projects/5

So at present your can self host but you'd still have to login using Google or Slack

[infogulch]

It seems there's a PR to get it to work with Gitea auth: https://github.com/outline/outline/pull/2134

[ruihildt]

Outline model is open core, so don't get your hopes too high to get all functionalities in the Open Source version.

[jdaviescoates]

@ruihildt is it? I don't see any paid for add-ons on their website...

[jdaviescoates]

@ruihildt I emailed them asking if any features aren't included, they replied:

We offer an enterprise edition that has these additional features:

• Audit trail
• SAML login (Okta, OneLogin, etc)
• Support contract

Everything else is included in the OSS edition

[klawitterb]

Latest release includes generic oidc authentication. Hooked it up with keycloak and seems to be running fine.

[timconsidine]

@jdaviescoates useful info
I tried to install Outline on a separate VPS using CapRover
But it failed, maybe because I skipped the gmail and slack env variables, as I don't use those platforms.
So I canned it.
Maybe I will try again.

It certainly looks a useful app and would be nice to have here on Cloudron.

[timconsidine]

@klawitterb is keycloak easy to use ?
haven't tried it out yet

[klawitterb]

@timconsidine Keycloak ist a fully fledged identity provider. So you're presented with millions of config options. Wouldn't call myself an expert in this topic but setting up a new client is quite straight forward if you've used oidc before.

[timconsidine]

@klawitterb thanks
Not used oidc before, so maybe that's where my knowledge gap starts.
Will look into it.
Where do you host keycloak ? You managed to get it as custom package into cloudron or you use it on another VPS ?
If you don't mind me asking.

[scooke]

@timconsidine Yeah, this is one of those impossible to install apps that are super appealing to everyone. I've only ever managed to do it once, there's a write-up somewhere out there, but I've never chatted with anyone else who actually set it up. It seems ppl just got the hosted one. Too bad, really.

[klawitterb]

@timconsidine I've packed it up as a custom cloudron app. Wouldn't call it production ready though. Same for outline itself.
So I've got now 3 apps driving this, outline, keycloak and minio for storage. Not exactly simple.

[timconsidine]

@klawitterb brillliant !
if it gets to production and you don't mind sharing it, let us know.
I'm having a play keycloak on another VPS (I'm always nervous of breaking things on my Cloudron)

[fbartels]

@timconsidine on the topic of oidc. There is a fully featured oidc provider within the Kopano Meet app. For internal use I have even separated the oidc provider into a separate app.

I did write down how to configure external apps on cloudron against it in https://blog.9wd.eu/posts/cloudron-oidc-nextcloud/

[timconsidine]

@fbartels Thank you !

[timconsidine]

@fbartels nice article, thank you

[potemkin_ai]

Would love to see Outline on CloudRon, hope @klawitterb will share the code to be added to the CloudRon

[jdaviescoates]

@klawitterb said in Outline - a Notion-like open source app:

Latest release includes generic oidc authentication. Hooked it up with keycloak and seems to be running fine.

Even though I liked your post, I only just re-spotted that this PR has been merged https://github.com/outline/outline/pull/2388

Looks like most of this other Authentication stuff has been done too:
https://github.com/outline/outline/projects/5

It'd be really fantastic if @klawitterb could collaborate with @staff to get Outline into the Cloudron app store!

[chetbaker]

we are currently using docuwiki, but outline will be :chesskiss:

[klawitterb]

@jdaviescoates Happy to share the code, just fired it up a couple of months ago to see if it would work. So should be regarded as a prototype only.
https://git.apehost.de/cloudron-apps/outline
Keep in mind that it also requires a S3 compatible storage like minio. So full solution would actually require 3 apps to be running.

[infogulch]

@klawitterb Nice thanks for sharing!

it also requires a S3 compatible storage like minio

Maybe this is a good time to bring up the Addon request: blob storage (s3) thread, which proposes a new "s3" addon in the same vein as the database addons that would create and manage s3-compatible buckets for apps automatically upon request in the app definition's manifest.

[nj]

@klawitterb Hi, were you able to make LDAP authentication work? I tried to build and install from the repo you shared but it threw several errors. Could you share a bit more about how you made Outline work with Cloudron user directory?

[klawitterb]

@nj Never made LDAP work. Only oidc with users directly created in keycloak.

[nj]

I have also packaged Outline: https://github.com/njsubedi/cloudron-outline, thanks to the work @klawitterb started. Still no success with passport-ldapauth but since I've also packaged Keycloak, LDAP auth is no longer a blocker for Outline. I also added some more details on the manifest/POSTINSTALL.md file if anyone is interested. It would be awesome if minio was available as an addon.

I recommend someone with more knowledge of passport-ldapauth to try adding support for authenticating cloudron users.

[timconsidine]

@nj wow thank you, will try to check it out.

[girish]

@nj thanks! have added it to our list of next apps. What is your impression of the app itself?

[ei8fdb]

Does anyone have a demo of this app running? I'd love to get a test account to look at it to try it out. Right now I'm using Joplin (and the great server). Thanks!

[nj]

@girish the app itself is great. I moved our team from Bookstack to Outline because it was extremely easy to create groups and assign permissions, default permission, etc. It also supports real-time collaboration on the document so we also started using it for meeting notes. So far, no issues. Working wonderfully inside cloudron with minio and keycloak both hosted alongside.

It is also pretty simple to keep updating regularly because of the simple migration command, and storage based on minio. No need to fuss with manual migration and storage, etc.

Also, I’d like to request S3 as an addon, because it’s trivial to create a bucket for an app, and an user for it, then grant “all” permissions on that bucket to that user.

[luckow]

@nj First. Top. Thank you so much to step into app packaging. But now here is the real world

Sorry to ask noob questions. And yes: I have to read the docs for keycloak. But to test your app package, there is a missing part in the "First time setup" from your app package.

On your OIDC Provider, follow these steps: 1,2,3 done.
But then in 4: And, the client is added to the reaml called "cloudron"

Where do I add the client to the realm in keycloak?
From the Realm settings perspective, I didn't find any settings for the client.

And Client Registration isn't the right tab

Same for the client perspective.

Yep. I know. SSO/IDM/SAML/LDAP/AD (<- and so on and on) is a complex topic. But hey. We are here for the Cloudron experience

[luckow]

@luckow Ey luckow! You already added the client to the realm Cloudron. Look at the navigation on the right side. Because if you click on the triangle, you can see you are right there. The Cloudron realm.

But that is no explanation for your user experience.

@luckow you need to find out why your client was not found.
luckow @ luckow not today. tomorrow is another day.

[luckow]

@luckow Without the tomatoes on my eyes, the solution is obvious.

Keycloak - Clients - Credentials:

Client Id and Secret does not mean that you take ZIDdK... for both. Secret is secret. Where do you find the Client Id? This is also simple.

Keycload - Clients

Yes. It's the name.

Sorry for hijacking this thread for my noob questions.

[luckow]

@ei8fdb I have taken the email address from your website and added you as an administrator to my outline instance. Feel free to break anything, it's just a test instance.

[ei8fdb]

Thank you very much @luckow. I got the email and thought "what is this email?!". But then thought it might be you. I appreciate you giving me this account.

This is an interesting app. It's another riff on Notion/Anytype friendly mark-up note taking/knowledge management/database app.

My main personal complaint with all these apps is they require always online access. There is no realistic way to use it offline.

I'm going to stay with it and see how it all works. As a wiki-type collaboration app it's certainly a very nice alternative to having to learn yet another markdown flavour.

[jdaviescoates]

@luckow can I play too?

[nj]

Hi @luckow ,
Could you try following this blog post? https://blog.yarsalabs.com/self-hosting-outline-wiki-on-cloudron/
The description and first-time setup still need some work, so I'll look into it again.