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Cloudron Forum

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  1. Cloudron Forum
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  3. Any recommended Server Managers that aren't Cloudon?

Any recommended Server Managers that aren't Cloudon?

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    • marcusquinnM Offline
      marcusquinnM Offline
      marcusquinn
      wrote on last edited by
      #1

      So we've still not got any conclusive results with our EspoCRM hosting failures on Cloudron:

      • https://forum.cloudron.io/topic/3209/timeout-in-espocrm-need-to-restart-webservice
      • https://forum.cloudron.io/topic/5214/errors-logs-to-identify-issues
      • https://forum.cloudron.io/topic/5177/add-espocrm-api-to-cloudron-health-checks
      • https://forum.espocrm.com/forum/general/71485-unexplained-system-freezes-not-showing-in-error-logs-with-the-api-not-responding

      Throwing a £300/m top of the specifications dedicated VPS at it didn't help.

      So we have sadly been forced to move that app's hosting to it's own plain Ubuntu VPS.

      The sad thing is, we'll never be able to risk moving this app back to Cloudron hosting because we have not been given any evidence on why it has been happening and how to solve it - and it only happens with this one Cloudron live instance, with live users, and can't be reproduced on the development environment, so no-one can reproduce the issue once we lose all the live users that were somehow triggering it.

      If anyone else has had the same issues, please add your own post like these guys also did:

      • https://forum.cloudron.io/topic/3209/timeout-in-espocrm-need-to-restart-webservice

      We're still using Cloudron for what it does work for, which is still quite a lot - but now we are forced to seek an alternative solution that can have diagnostics and debugging for the application stack that we can act on in the even of issue.

      So, is there anything else anyone likes and is using just for server hardening, performance tuning etc?

      I haven't looked around for a while, but this is going to be a 1-app server, so it's needs really are just OS and Service Management.

      Don't particularly need Docker, due to being a single-app server, but it might be interesting to compare what debugging we can do with that in an alternative setup compared to the brick-wall of silent fails we've has with the Cloudron Espo app.

      (anyone that says "well everyone else is alright with it", might want to keep that to themselves, we just have bigger, faster, stronger needs)

      I'm sure I saw a few mentioned, but the names escape me?...

      Web Design https://www.evergreen.je
      Development https://brandlight.org
      Life https://marcusquinn.com

      timconsidineT 1 Reply Last reply
      0
      • marcusquinnM Offline
        marcusquinnM Offline
        marcusquinn
        wrote on last edited by
        #2

        Reminds me of this suggestion: https://forum.cloudron.io/topic/4429/suggestion-cloudron-base-version

        Web Design https://www.evergreen.je
        Development https://brandlight.org
        Life https://marcusquinn.com

        1 Reply Last reply
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        • marcusquinnM Offline
          marcusquinnM Offline
          marcusquinn
          wrote on last edited by marcusquinn
          #3

          Maybe this is an option?

          • https://forum.cloudron.io/topic/5146/cockpit
          • https://cockpit-project.org/
          • https://alternativeto.net/software/cockpit-linux/about/

          Anyone had a play? Real world experience?

          Web Design https://www.evergreen.je
          Development https://brandlight.org
          Life https://marcusquinn.com

          1 Reply Last reply
          0
          • marcusquinnM marcusquinn

            So we've still not got any conclusive results with our EspoCRM hosting failures on Cloudron:

            • https://forum.cloudron.io/topic/3209/timeout-in-espocrm-need-to-restart-webservice
            • https://forum.cloudron.io/topic/5214/errors-logs-to-identify-issues
            • https://forum.cloudron.io/topic/5177/add-espocrm-api-to-cloudron-health-checks
            • https://forum.espocrm.com/forum/general/71485-unexplained-system-freezes-not-showing-in-error-logs-with-the-api-not-responding

            Throwing a £300/m top of the specifications dedicated VPS at it didn't help.

            So we have sadly been forced to move that app's hosting to it's own plain Ubuntu VPS.

            The sad thing is, we'll never be able to risk moving this app back to Cloudron hosting because we have not been given any evidence on why it has been happening and how to solve it - and it only happens with this one Cloudron live instance, with live users, and can't be reproduced on the development environment, so no-one can reproduce the issue once we lose all the live users that were somehow triggering it.

            If anyone else has had the same issues, please add your own post like these guys also did:

            • https://forum.cloudron.io/topic/3209/timeout-in-espocrm-need-to-restart-webservice

            We're still using Cloudron for what it does work for, which is still quite a lot - but now we are forced to seek an alternative solution that can have diagnostics and debugging for the application stack that we can act on in the even of issue.

            So, is there anything else anyone likes and is using just for server hardening, performance tuning etc?

            I haven't looked around for a while, but this is going to be a 1-app server, so it's needs really are just OS and Service Management.

            Don't particularly need Docker, due to being a single-app server, but it might be interesting to compare what debugging we can do with that in an alternative setup compared to the brick-wall of silent fails we've has with the Cloudron Espo app.

            (anyone that says "well everyone else is alright with it", might want to keep that to themselves, we just have bigger, faster, stronger needs)

            I'm sure I saw a few mentioned, but the names escape me?...

            timconsidineT Offline
            timconsidineT Offline
            timconsidine
            App Dev
            wrote on last edited by
            #4

            @marcusquinn I'm not entirely sure what your needs are for your super-server, but I have installed CapRover https://caprover.com/ on its own VPS.

            It run nicely with a number of one-click app installs. Although EspoCRM is not one of them, it has a number of ways to do custom installs to install EspoCRM

            But CapRover has Portainer and Cockpit which might deal with your OS and service management. And Prometheus and Grafana if they come into the scope of service management.

            marcusquinnM 1 Reply Last reply
            1
            • timconsidineT timconsidine

              @marcusquinn I'm not entirely sure what your needs are for your super-server, but I have installed CapRover https://caprover.com/ on its own VPS.

              It run nicely with a number of one-click app installs. Although EspoCRM is not one of them, it has a number of ways to do custom installs to install EspoCRM

              But CapRover has Portainer and Cockpit which might deal with your OS and service management. And Prometheus and Grafana if they come into the scope of service management.

              marcusquinnM Offline
              marcusquinnM Offline
              marcusquinn
              wrote on last edited by marcusquinn
              #5

              @timconsidine I'm thinking Cockpit or my "Cloudron Base" suggestion are the closest to what's needed, without all the things that aren't. Not looking for an alternative for multi-apps, like Cloudron, but an alternative for single apps on a VPS without Docker or restrictions and adaptions that prevent an app doing what it needs to and being logged at root levels.

              Web Design https://www.evergreen.je
              Development https://brandlight.org
              Life https://marcusquinn.com

              MooCloud_MattM 1 Reply Last reply
              1
              • marcusquinnM marcusquinn

                @timconsidine I'm thinking Cockpit or my "Cloudron Base" suggestion are the closest to what's needed, without all the things that aren't. Not looking for an alternative for multi-apps, like Cloudron, but an alternative for single apps on a VPS without Docker or restrictions and adaptions that prevent an app doing what it needs to and being logged at root levels.

                MooCloud_MattM Offline
                MooCloud_MattM Offline
                MooCloud_Matt
                wrote on last edited by
                #6

                @marcusquinn

                Probably Portainer + Cockpit are the best combo/options that I know, that can fit your requirement.
                You just need a docker-compose to create your "Stack" inside Portainer for EspoCRM.
                Using their official image/docke-compose: https://github.com/espocrm/docker

                This is super flexible but you also need to take care of maintenance, and security but is docker it's easy to maintain.

                Matteo. R.
                Founder and Tech-Support Manager.
                MooCloud MSP
                Swiss Managed Service Provider

                marcusquinnM 1 Reply Last reply
                1
                • MooCloud_MattM MooCloud_Matt

                  @marcusquinn

                  Probably Portainer + Cockpit are the best combo/options that I know, that can fit your requirement.
                  You just need a docker-compose to create your "Stack" inside Portainer for EspoCRM.
                  Using their official image/docke-compose: https://github.com/espocrm/docker

                  This is super flexible but you also need to take care of maintenance, and security but is docker it's easy to maintain.

                  marcusquinnM Offline
                  marcusquinnM Offline
                  marcusquinn
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #7

                  @moocloud_matt Thanks. Don't want Docker or Portainer. Just the bare naked Ubuntu as it's for hosting a single app.

                  This is the setup script for EspoCRM in this way:

                  • https://github.com/espocrm/documentation/blob/master/docs/administration/installation-by-script.md

                  Web Design https://www.evergreen.je
                  Development https://brandlight.org
                  Life https://marcusquinn.com

                  scookeS 1 Reply Last reply
                  0
                  • marcusquinnM marcusquinn

                    @moocloud_matt Thanks. Don't want Docker or Portainer. Just the bare naked Ubuntu as it's for hosting a single app.

                    This is the setup script for EspoCRM in this way:

                    • https://github.com/espocrm/documentation/blob/master/docs/administration/installation-by-script.md
                    scookeS Offline
                    scookeS Offline
                    scooke
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #8

                    @marcusquinn Espocrm is doing exactly what you want it to when it has been set up this way?

                    A life lived in fear is a life half-lived

                    marcusquinnM 1 Reply Last reply
                    0
                    • scookeS scooke

                      @marcusquinn Espocrm is doing exactly what you want it to when it has been set up this way?

                      marcusquinnM Offline
                      marcusquinnM Offline
                      marcusquinn
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #9

                      @scooke EspoCRM is not stable on Cloudron when you start adding more users and features, and provides no debug error logs when it locks-up and needs manual intervention to recover.

                      Our DIY setup, with an identical application codebase, is stable and trouble-free.

                      Web Design https://www.evergreen.je
                      Development https://brandlight.org
                      Life https://marcusquinn.com

                      timconsidineT 1 Reply Last reply
                      1
                      • marcusquinnM marcusquinn

                        @scooke EspoCRM is not stable on Cloudron when you start adding more users and features, and provides no debug error logs when it locks-up and needs manual intervention to recover.

                        Our DIY setup, with an identical application codebase, is stable and trouble-free.

                        timconsidineT Offline
                        timconsidineT Offline
                        timconsidine
                        App Dev
                        wrote on last edited by timconsidine
                        #10

                        @marcusquinn did you consider netdata https://www.netdata.cloud ?

                        Seems to have a lot of metrics
                        Maybe you solved your system monitoring quest

                        marcusquinnM 1 Reply Last reply
                        0
                        • timconsidineT timconsidine

                          @marcusquinn did you consider netdata https://www.netdata.cloud ?

                          Seems to have a lot of metrics
                          Maybe you solved your system monitoring quest

                          marcusquinnM Offline
                          marcusquinnM Offline
                          marcusquinn
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #11

                          @timconsidine Nice, looks interesting. More like Grafana than Cockpit from my initial glance over the site? Seems to be on the growing Wishlist too:

                          • https://forum.cloudron.io/topic/1125/netdata-real-time-monitoring

                          Web Design https://www.evergreen.je
                          Development https://brandlight.org
                          Life https://marcusquinn.com

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