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    App Packaging & Development
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    • marcusquinn
      marcusquinn last edited by

      This looks brilliant - and we've been recently investigating other solutions towards this exact need for templated and managed VDIs:

      • https://wiki.x2go.org
      • https://www.opsi.org/

      We're not here for a long time - but we are here for a good time :)
      Jersey/UK
      Work & Ecommerce Advice: https://brandlight.org
      Personal & Software Tips: https://marcusquinn.com

      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
      • vladimir.d
        vladimir.d @murgero last edited by

        @murgero We'd like to give it a try, could you share the app?

        murgero 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
        • murgero
          murgero App Dev @vladimir.d last edited by

          @vladimir-d Give me a PM, and I can share the repo privately for now

          --
          https://urgero.org
          ~ Professional Nerd. Freelance Programmer. ~

          marcusquinn 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
          • M
            malvim last edited by

            Wow, that's pretty neat!

            I had seen someone running desktop apps as docker containers with web frontends. Found this with handbrake, for example, and it works pretty well: https://github.com/jlesage/docker-handbrake

            Not sure if it's the same approach or if it can help you in any way, just thought I'd mention. I love this idea!

            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
            • marcusquinn
              marcusquinn @murgero last edited by

              @murgero Can you have a think about this; making a lite' and a loaded version?

              • Lite: I'm thinking only needs a Browser. Perhaps Waterfox.net is leaner for this too.
              • Loaded: Would have all the extra/common Apps pre-installed: Waterfox, Thunderbird, Vivaldi, Libre Office, Rocket Chat, Bitwarden, PDF Arranger, maybe some others.

              We're not here for a long time - but we are here for a good time :)
              Jersey/UK
              Work & Ecommerce Advice: https://brandlight.org
              Personal & Software Tips: https://marcusquinn.com

              murgero 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
              • murgero
                murgero App Dev @marcusquinn last edited by

                @marcusquinn Neat idea. However, Flatpak will allow users to install those apps as they need them. I think the only version I'll be making, for now, is a lite version. Right now it has a file manager, terminal, RDP Client (for thin client like purpose), and a text editor.

                --
                https://urgero.org
                ~ Professional Nerd. Freelance Programmer. ~

                marcusquinn 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                • marcusquinn
                  marcusquinn @murgero last edited by marcusquinn

                  @murgero My world generally involves explaining the same thing to about 100 people, who then all have to do the same reliably.

                  Hence, I tend towards just do it for them to save the explanations, and thereon inevitable questions that there's not always time to answer or document.

                  @vladimir-d and I will help work on this though, and everything we do is for sharing back.

                  Thanks for the innovation with this, it could become very useful!

                  We're not here for a long time - but we are here for a good time :)
                  Jersey/UK
                  Work & Ecommerce Advice: https://brandlight.org
                  Personal & Software Tips: https://marcusquinn.com

                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                  • marcusquinn
                    marcusquinn last edited by

                    Thinking out loud on if we'd be able to get ZorinOS 16 Pro Lite (based on Xfce Desktop) running with this methodology?

                    • https://blog.zorin.com/2021/12/08/zorin-os-16-lite-is-here/

                    We're not here for a long time - but we are here for a good time :)
                    Jersey/UK
                    Work & Ecommerce Advice: https://brandlight.org
                    Personal & Software Tips: https://marcusquinn.com

                    murgero 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                    • murgero
                      murgero App Dev @marcusquinn last edited by

                      @marcusquinn It should be possible - but the idea here is to keep the UI as lite as possible, and Zorin, even the lite model, takes up a minimum of 2GB RAM. My current setup at the moment only needs 256 to 512

                      --
                      https://urgero.org
                      ~ Professional Nerd. Freelance Programmer. ~

                      marcusquinn 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                      • marcusquinn
                        marcusquinn @murgero last edited by

                        @murgero Nice - but OS RAM usage nowadays is pale in comparison to that of websites and apps, and we'll be throwing big dedicated servers at this if we can get it all doing what we need, probably budgeting 4-16GB RAM per concurrent user.

                        Plus, I really like ZorinOS, highly recommended! 🙂

                        We're not here for a long time - but we are here for a good time :)
                        Jersey/UK
                        Work & Ecommerce Advice: https://brandlight.org
                        Personal & Software Tips: https://marcusquinn.com

                        doodlemania2 murgero 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 2
                        • doodlemania2
                          doodlemania2 App Dev @marcusquinn last edited by

                          Also check out what Kasm is doing in this space - pretty slick!

                          marcusquinn 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                          • murgero
                            murgero App Dev @marcusquinn last edited by

                            @marcusquinn You're always welcome to customize to your needs - this was made for me to use as more of a lack-of-workspace situation so I can RDP into a windows machine or simply open my email in a better webclient than my mobile client.

                            --
                            https://urgero.org
                            ~ Professional Nerd. Freelance Programmer. ~

                            marcusquinn 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                            • marcusquinn
                              marcusquinn @murgero last edited by

                              @murgero Thanks. Just gave it a spin, and it is super fast, no problem watching YouTube videos at full framerate!

                              We're not here for a long time - but we are here for a good time :)
                              Jersey/UK
                              Work & Ecommerce Advice: https://brandlight.org
                              Personal & Software Tips: https://marcusquinn.com

                              murgero 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                              • marcusquinn
                                marcusquinn @doodlemania2 last edited by

                                @doodlemania2 Looks amazing - links for reference:

                                • https://www.kasmweb.com/
                                • https://hub.docker.com/u/kasmweb

                                We're not here for a long time - but we are here for a good time :)
                                Jersey/UK
                                Work & Ecommerce Advice: https://brandlight.org
                                Personal & Software Tips: https://marcusquinn.com

                                timconsidine 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 3
                                • murgero
                                  murgero App Dev @marcusquinn last edited by

                                  @marcusquinn If only I could get sound working properly lol

                                  Still working out a bunch of kinks like allowing users to change the resolution, sound, flatpak (for the advanced users) and so on

                                  --
                                  https://urgero.org
                                  ~ Professional Nerd. Freelance Programmer. ~

                                  marcusquinn 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                  • marcusquinn
                                    marcusquinn @murgero last edited by

                                    @murgero Cool - that's always been a PITA with Linux - we'll see if we can too.

                                    We're not here for a long time - but we are here for a good time :)
                                    Jersey/UK
                                    Work & Ecommerce Advice: https://brandlight.org
                                    Personal & Software Tips: https://marcusquinn.com

                                    murgero 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                    • murgero
                                      murgero App Dev @marcusquinn last edited by

                                      @marcusquinn Switching the desktop to xfce4 which is a little bit heavier than fluxbox BUT will be 1000x more user friendly.

                                      --
                                      https://urgero.org
                                      ~ Professional Nerd. Freelance Programmer. ~

                                      marcusquinn 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                                      • marcusquinn
                                        marcusquinn @murgero last edited by marcusquinn

                                        @murgero Nice, agreed. ZorinOS Lite is based on that (XFCE 4.16) too if you wanna try?

                                        That's what we use for all recommissioned laptops and desktops now: https://blog.zorin.com/2021/12/08/zorin-os-16-lite-is-here/

                                        We're not here for a long time - but we are here for a good time :)
                                        Jersey/UK
                                        Work & Ecommerce Advice: https://brandlight.org
                                        Personal & Software Tips: https://marcusquinn.com

                                        murgero robi 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                        • timconsidine
                                          timconsidine @marcusquinn last edited by

                                          @marcusquinn : Kasm looks amazing but very interested in how @murgero's package will be

                                          marcusquinn 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                          • murgero
                                            murgero App Dev @marcusquinn last edited by murgero

                                            @marcusquinn Gonna forego Flatpak since it is just broken with the read-only file system. Instead, users can use appimage (ubuntu native!) to get their apps beyond the default installed ones. No root or whatever needed for those. I am going to test this later and see if it works as expected and if so, then the package will be in a state where anyone can test and get back to me with suggestions or questions.

                                            Nevermind - appimage requires fuse, which we can't run in docker as-is with cloudron.

                                            --
                                            https://urgero.org
                                            ~ Professional Nerd. Freelance Programmer. ~

                                            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                            • marcusquinn
                                              marcusquinn @timconsidine last edited by

                                              @timconsidine I actually think that wth a bit more work and collective minds, everything that Kasm offers could be reproduced here for Cloudron. I'm very excited for this concept!

                                              We're not here for a long time - but we are here for a good time :)
                                              Jersey/UK
                                              Work & Ecommerce Advice: https://brandlight.org
                                              Personal & Software Tips: https://marcusquinn.com

                                              murgero timconsidine 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                              • murgero
                                                murgero App Dev @marcusquinn last edited by

                                                @marcusquinn Sadly Kasm wont work on cloudron as-is. Cloudron restricts access to the containers file-system to read-only mode. Kasm will require that to be removed + will also need docker running in privileged mode to get stuff like sound, app installs, etc working.

                                                --
                                                https://urgero.org
                                                ~ Professional Nerd. Freelance Programmer. ~

                                                marcusquinn robi 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 2
                                                • marcusquinn
                                                  marcusquinn @murgero last edited by

                                                  @murgero I'm thinking Cloudron Dockerised Desktop Apps as an alternative to Kasm.

                                                  Although, it does look very well thought out, so might actually be worth supporting and subscribing to for our needs, but really keen to see what we can do here with Cloudron Apps and Desktoping.

                                                  We're not here for a long time - but we are here for a good time :)
                                                  Jersey/UK
                                                  Work & Ecommerce Advice: https://brandlight.org
                                                  Personal & Software Tips: https://marcusquinn.com

                                                  murgero 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                                  • marcusquinn
                                                    marcusquinn last edited by marcusquinn

                                                    I'm also thinking we'd them make use of Guacamole.

                                                    I have seen companies spend $150/user/MONTH on Citrix & Windows Desktops, with nothing more than Microsoft Office and maybe an Accounting app.

                                                    Of all the Cloudon Apps, this could very well become the most valuable to enterprises that need to provide Desktops within a walled-garden for data access & storage with thin-clients like iGel.

                                                    We're not here for a long time - but we are here for a good time :)
                                                    Jersey/UK
                                                    Work & Ecommerce Advice: https://brandlight.org
                                                    Personal & Software Tips: https://marcusquinn.com

                                                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                    • murgero
                                                      murgero App Dev @marcusquinn last edited by

                                                      @marcusquinn Well the docker image has been updated, you can update / reinstall with the same CloudronManifest.json file as before, it will pull the latest image

                                                      --
                                                      https://urgero.org
                                                      ~ Professional Nerd. Freelance Programmer. ~

                                                      marcusquinn 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                                                      • marcusquinn
                                                        marcusquinn @murgero last edited by

                                                        @murgero Thanks, late here, will try in the am. 👍

                                                        We're not here for a long time - but we are here for a good time :)
                                                        Jersey/UK
                                                        Work & Ecommerce Advice: https://brandlight.org
                                                        Personal & Software Tips: https://marcusquinn.com

                                                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                                        • robi
                                                          robi @marcusquinn last edited by

                                                          @marcusquinn said in Desktop App:

                                                          ZorinOS Lite is based on that (XFCE 4.16) too if you wanna try?

                                                          Does it have a functional OS level dark mode?

                                                          Life of Gratitude.
                                                          Life of Advanced Technology

                                                          marcusquinn 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                          • robi
                                                            robi @murgero last edited by

                                                            @murgero said in Desktop App:

                                                            Sadly Kasm wont work on cloudron as-is. Cloudron restricts access to the containers file-system to read-only mode. Kasm will require that to be removed + will also need docker running in privileged mode to get stuff like sound, app installs, etc working.

                                                            It would if you used sysbox from nestybox. Much better container isolation where you can even run full system image containers, which would be good for virtual desktop applications.

                                                            Find the "sysbox" thread here on the forum.

                                                            Life of Gratitude.
                                                            Life of Advanced Technology

                                                            murgero 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                            • murgero
                                                              murgero App Dev @robi last edited by

                                                              @robi docker can run full-system images but cloudron locks down too much of the file system to allow it completely. That's why I am having a challenge getting a basic desktop working.

                                                              --
                                                              https://urgero.org
                                                              ~ Professional Nerd. Freelance Programmer. ~

                                                              robi 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                                              • robi
                                                                robi @murgero last edited by

                                                                @murgero said in Desktop App:

                                                                cloudron locks down too much of the file system to allow it completely.

                                                                That's the part that isn't clear.. if the new system image you're making is done right, it doesn't matter if it's read only as all the parts that need to write have the / system portion and /app/data paths.

                                                                Next question is where exactly are you getting stuck?

                                                                Life of Gratitude.
                                                                Life of Advanced Technology

                                                                murgero 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                                • murgero
                                                                  murgero App Dev @robi last edited by

                                                                  @robi Cloudron blocks write access except for /app/data, /tmp, and I think a couple other dirs. but tghe big stuff like in /var, /etc, /lib - you cant write in post build.

                                                                  I'd like to note that during the building of the app I can write to whatever directory I want. but once it's deployed though it's locked down.

                                                                  Plus some stuff you can't do in docker unless the image(s) are ran in privileged mode, which cloudron does not allow either. Without privileged mode, a lot of stuff has to get worked around like x11, window manager, and even simple stuff like fuse works differently in docker than in regular linux.

                                                                  --
                                                                  https://urgero.org
                                                                  ~ Professional Nerd. Freelance Programmer. ~

                                                                  robi 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                                                  • robi
                                                                    robi @murgero last edited by

                                                                    @murgero sysbox allows for more things without using privileged mode.

                                                                    It's likely a good time to map out the things that you need, vs the things cloudron allows and see what the delta is and how that maps to sysbox capabilities and any changes we might need to look into.

                                                                    It's these kinds of things that prevent others from seeing an idea can work because of their own limits in knowledge or beliefs, so the immediate response is No, when it could be a YES.

                                                                    Life of Gratitude.
                                                                    Life of Advanced Technology

                                                                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                                                                    • marcusquinn
                                                                      marcusquinn @robi last edited by

                                                                      @robi said in Desktop App:

                                                                      @marcusquinn said in Desktop App:

                                                                      ZorinOS Lite is based on that (XFCE 4.16) too if you wanna try?

                                                                      Does it have a functional OS level dark mode?

                                                                      Yes

                                                                      We're not here for a long time - but we are here for a good time :)
                                                                      Jersey/UK
                                                                      Work & Ecommerce Advice: https://brandlight.org
                                                                      Personal & Software Tips: https://marcusquinn.com

                                                                      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                                                      • timconsidine
                                                                        timconsidine @marcusquinn last edited by

                                                                        @marcusquinn : I tried out out Kasm.
                                                                        Generally a good system and an easy install (if you put on its own box not with other stuff).
                                                                        However, even after increasing the cores and RAM that can be allocated to an app/image, I found it a little slow. Maybe it's the VPS I put it on, despite the VPS having 32Gb RAM and 8 cores.
                                                                        My expectation level has been set at a middle level remote desktop Workspace from AWS. Although I am trying to get off AWS, I have to say that workspace performs well. Better than Kasm.
                                                                        So very interested to see what performance a Cloudron Desktop App will be. When it's ready.

                                                                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                                                                        • timconsidine
                                                                          timconsidine @murgero last edited by

                                                                          @murgero polite enquiry : how's the project going ?
                                                                          I appreciate there is probably a ton of work to do to get to a release.

                                                                          murgero 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                                          • P
                                                                            plusone-nick last edited by

                                                                            Love the use case...reminds me of KASM 🙁: https://forum.cloudron.io/topic/3269/kasm-virtual-desktop-browser-isolation/2?_=1643939053102

                                                                            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                                            • murgero
                                                                              murgero App Dev @timconsidine last edited by

                                                                              @timconsidine Howdy! It's probably ready for testing tbh. But i worry about security - since I am not an export (though I know a lot) on Linux security - It'd be a good idea to test it, and maybe even have a 3rd party audit of it.

                                                                              --
                                                                              https://urgero.org
                                                                              ~ Professional Nerd. Freelance Programmer. ~

                                                                              timconsidine 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                                                              • timconsidine
                                                                                timconsidine @murgero last edited by

                                                                                @murgero I'd be interested to test it if you need another set of eyes.
                                                                                But I'm no expert, and certainly not on security. It's so broad these days. Lots of stuff on reddit/selfhosted on security. trying to absorb this : https://arvind.io/posts/using-fail2ban-to-protect-exposed-services/

                                                                                necrevistonnezr 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                                                • necrevistonnezr
                                                                                  necrevistonnezr @timconsidine last edited by

                                                                                  @timconsidine maybe do this https://forum.cloudron.io/topic/6224/crowdsec-install-guide-for-cloudron-purposes instead of just fail2ban?

                                                                                  timconsidine murgero 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                                                                  • timconsidine
                                                                                    timconsidine @necrevistonnezr last edited by

                                                                                    @necrevistonnezr good point

                                                                                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                                                    • murgero
                                                                                      murgero App Dev @necrevistonnezr last edited by

                                                                                      @necrevistonnezr That seems more for the host than installed in apps? Or am I misreading some of it?

                                                                                      --
                                                                                      https://urgero.org
                                                                                      ~ Professional Nerd. Freelance Programmer. ~

                                                                                      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
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