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  3. Please, separate automatic apps and platform upgrades

Please, separate automatic apps and platform upgrades

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  • potemkin_aiP Offline
    potemkin_aiP Offline
    potemkin_ai
    wrote on last edited by
    #1

    Today my Cloudron instance crashed during the automatic upgrade process - it's the first time in like 3 years, but it's pretty much enough for me to disable automatic platform upgrades anywhere until you can make it atomic (for example using snap or other Ubuntu Core or any other ways), just like you did for the apps.

    But I can see that you have one switch for both - apps and the platform.

    Could you please, separate that configuration?

    Considering last upgrade issues in 7.5 and my specific issue, where the whole configuration is lost, I would like to ask you to make it as a priority, if possible.

    Screenshot 2023-09-01 at 10.23.43.png

    girishG 1 Reply Last reply
    5
    • necrevistonnezrN Offline
      necrevistonnezrN Offline
      necrevistonnezr
      wrote on last edited by
      #2

      Note that several app updates depend on the current version of Cloudron - if you autoupdate the app without Cloudron, you leave the app in a nun-functioning state. I don’t know if that is any better than figuring out the root cause for crashes of your updates?!

      potemkin_aiP 1 Reply Last reply
      2
      • potemkin_aiP potemkin_ai

        Today my Cloudron instance crashed during the automatic upgrade process - it's the first time in like 3 years, but it's pretty much enough for me to disable automatic platform upgrades anywhere until you can make it atomic (for example using snap or other Ubuntu Core or any other ways), just like you did for the apps.

        But I can see that you have one switch for both - apps and the platform.

        Could you please, separate that configuration?

        Considering last upgrade issues in 7.5 and my specific issue, where the whole configuration is lost, I would like to ask you to make it as a priority, if possible.

        Screenshot 2023-09-01 at 10.23.43.png

        girishG Offline
        girishG Offline
        girish
        Staff
        wrote on last edited by
        #3

        @potemkin_ai said in Please, separate automatic apps and platform upgrades:

        Today my Cloudron instance crashed during the automatic upgrade process

        do we know what the problem is?

        potemkin_aiP 1 Reply Last reply
        0
        • necrevistonnezrN necrevistonnezr

          Note that several app updates depend on the current version of Cloudron - if you autoupdate the app without Cloudron, you leave the app in a nun-functioning state. I don’t know if that is any better than figuring out the root cause for crashes of your updates?!

          potemkin_aiP Offline
          potemkin_aiP Offline
          potemkin_ai
          wrote on last edited by
          #4

          @necrevistonnezr not quite correct, not from what I know at least: I remember some apps just were not updated during the transition from 7.4 to 7.5 due to some database dependency.

          So, I believe, the dependency mechanism is there and could be used appropriately.

          And if that's correct, I would rather have an outdated app instead of the crashed one.

          necrevistonnezrN 1 Reply Last reply
          0
          • girishG girish

            @potemkin_ai said in Please, separate automatic apps and platform upgrades:

            Today my Cloudron instance crashed during the automatic upgrade process

            do we know what the problem is?

            potemkin_aiP Offline
            potemkin_aiP Offline
            potemkin_ai
            wrote on last edited by
            #5

            do we know what the problem is?

            @girish @nebulon was very quick in reaction and helped to recover the platform - he has immediate details and, from what I understood, shall be back with the investigation results.

            1 Reply Last reply
            0
            • girishG Offline
              girishG Offline
              girish
              Staff
              wrote on last edited by
              #6

              @potemkin_ai Ah yes, thanks. I just read the ticket. This is related to sftp keys migration which happenned many releases ago. It leaves the system in an inconsistent state. Strange bug somewhere.

              necrevistonnezrN 1 Reply Last reply
              2
              • girishG girish

                @potemkin_ai Ah yes, thanks. I just read the ticket. This is related to sftp keys migration which happenned many releases ago. It leaves the system in an inconsistent state. Strange bug somewhere.

                necrevistonnezrN Offline
                necrevistonnezrN Offline
                necrevistonnezr
                wrote on last edited by
                #7

                @girish said in Please, separate automatic apps and platform upgrades:

                @potemkin_ai Ah yes, thanks. I just read the ticket. This is related to sftp keys migration which happenned many releases ago. It leaves the system in an inconsistent state. Strange bug somewhere.

                So was this a "standard" update or - as "many releases ago" suggests - an update crossing several versions?

                girishG 1 Reply Last reply
                0
                • potemkin_aiP potemkin_ai

                  @necrevistonnezr not quite correct, not from what I know at least: I remember some apps just were not updated during the transition from 7.4 to 7.5 due to some database dependency.

                  So, I believe, the dependency mechanism is there and could be used appropriately.

                  And if that's correct, I would rather have an outdated app instead of the crashed one.

                  necrevistonnezrN Offline
                  necrevistonnezrN Offline
                  necrevistonnezr
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #8

                  @potemkin_ai said in Please, separate automatic apps and platform upgrades:

                  @necrevistonnezr not quite correct, not from what I know at least: I remember some apps just were not updated during the transition from 7.4 to 7.5 due to some database dependency.

                  No, happens quite frequently. Just a few examples:

                  • https://forum.cloudron.io/post/42603
                  • https://forum.cloudron.io/post/47840
                  • https://forum.cloudron.io/post/5325
                  • https://forum.cloudron.io/post/9472
                  • https://forum.cloudron.io/post/9950

                  So, I believe, the dependency mechanism is there and could be used appropriately.

                  And if that's correct, I would rather have an outdated app instead of the crashed one.

                  Agreed.

                  1 Reply Last reply
                  0
                  • necrevistonnezrN necrevistonnezr

                    @girish said in Please, separate automatic apps and platform upgrades:

                    @potemkin_ai Ah yes, thanks. I just read the ticket. This is related to sftp keys migration which happenned many releases ago. It leaves the system in an inconsistent state. Strange bug somewhere.

                    So was this a "standard" update or - as "many releases ago" suggests - an update crossing several versions?

                    girishG Offline
                    girishG Offline
                    girish
                    Staff
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #9

                    @necrevistonnezr said in Please, separate automatic apps and platform upgrades:

                    So was this a "standard" update or - as "many releases ago" suggests - an update crossing several versions?

                    We only have standard update i.e updating from previous version to next one. Cannot jump several versions (atleast, we have never tested this, but in any case there is no easy way to do this unless you hotfix the code from gitlab).

                    I was debugging a bit yesterday but we have a code path where we create keys. These keys have to be written into filesystem and the database. It's written in db for backup and written in filesystem for containers to be able to use them. Unfortunately, writing to fs and db is not an atomic operation. The current code gets confused if there is some crash between the two writes (for example, no disk space). I will just fix it to be more robust.

                    potemkin_aiP 1 Reply Last reply
                    2
                    • girishG girish

                      @necrevistonnezr said in Please, separate automatic apps and platform upgrades:

                      So was this a "standard" update or - as "many releases ago" suggests - an update crossing several versions?

                      We only have standard update i.e updating from previous version to next one. Cannot jump several versions (atleast, we have never tested this, but in any case there is no easy way to do this unless you hotfix the code from gitlab).

                      I was debugging a bit yesterday but we have a code path where we create keys. These keys have to be written into filesystem and the database. It's written in db for backup and written in filesystem for containers to be able to use them. Unfortunately, writing to fs and db is not an atomic operation. The current code gets confused if there is some crash between the two writes (for example, no disk space). I will just fix it to be more robust.

                      potemkin_aiP Offline
                      potemkin_aiP Offline
                      potemkin_ai
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #10

                      @girish thank you.

                      Does it mean that separate apps updates and manual platform updates are out of the scope for the foreseeable future?

                      girishG 1 Reply Last reply
                      0
                      • potemkin_aiP potemkin_ai

                        @girish thank you.

                        Does it mean that separate apps updates and manual platform updates are out of the scope for the foreseeable future?

                        girishG Offline
                        girishG Offline
                        girish
                        Staff
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #11

                        @potemkin_ai said in Please, separate automatic apps and platform upgrades:

                        Does it mean that separate apps updates and manual platform updates are out of the scope for the foreseeable future?

                        Ah no. I was simply stating the lay of the land 🙂

                        If it's seen as useful by many, we will implement it.

                        potemkin_aiP 1 Reply Last reply
                        0
                        • girishG girish

                          @potemkin_ai said in Please, separate automatic apps and platform upgrades:

                          Does it mean that separate apps updates and manual platform updates are out of the scope for the foreseeable future?

                          Ah no. I was simply stating the lay of the land 🙂

                          If it's seen as useful by many, we will implement it.

                          potemkin_aiP Offline
                          potemkin_aiP Offline
                          potemkin_ai
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #12

                          @girish I see, thank you for clarification. I guess it means we are speaking months here.

                          Is there any API call, that I can probably execute with curl to automatically update only apps from cron?

                          girishG 1 Reply Last reply
                          1
                          • potemkin_aiP potemkin_ai

                            @girish I see, thank you for clarification. I guess it means we are speaking months here.

                            Is there any API call, that I can probably execute with curl to automatically update only apps from cron?

                            girishG Offline
                            girishG Offline
                            girish
                            Staff
                            wrote on last edited by girish
                            #13

                            @potemkin_ai internally, there is only one update pattern, we have to implement splitting it up.

                            potemkin_aiP 1 Reply Last reply
                            0
                            • girishG girish

                              @potemkin_ai internally, there is only one update pattern, we have to implement splitting it up.

                              potemkin_aiP Offline
                              potemkin_aiP Offline
                              potemkin_ai
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #14

                              @girish Ok… what about something that gets all apps list, check and execute update on any of those, who has ‘update available’ flag?

                              robiR 1 Reply Last reply
                              0
                              • potemkin_aiP potemkin_ai

                                @girish Ok… what about something that gets all apps list, check and execute update on any of those, who has ‘update available’ flag?

                                robiR Offline
                                robiR Offline
                                robi
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #15

                                @potemkin_ai perhaps make an N8N workflow with the API

                                Conscious tech

                                potemkin_aiP 1 Reply Last reply
                                1
                                • robiR robi

                                  @potemkin_ai perhaps make an N8N workflow with the API

                                  potemkin_aiP Offline
                                  potemkin_aiP Offline
                                  potemkin_ai
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #16

                                  @robi I prefer minimum of the moving parts and I don’t really like the programming with n8n; writing a script feels much easier and less error prone.

                                  robiR 1 Reply Last reply
                                  0
                                  • potemkin_aiP potemkin_ai

                                    @robi I prefer minimum of the moving parts and I don’t really like the programming with n8n; writing a script feels much easier and less error prone.

                                    robiR Offline
                                    robiR Offline
                                    robi
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #17

                                    @potemkin_ai it can do that too

                                    Conscious tech

                                    potemkin_aiP 1 Reply Last reply
                                    0
                                    • robiR robi

                                      @potemkin_ai it can do that too

                                      potemkin_aiP Offline
                                      potemkin_aiP Offline
                                      potemkin_ai
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #18

                                      @robi pardon?

                                      robiR 1 Reply Last reply
                                      0
                                      • potemkin_aiP potemkin_ai

                                        @robi pardon?

                                        robiR Offline
                                        robiR Offline
                                        robi
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #19

                                        @potemkin_ai scripting within n8n.. or even just a bunch of curl commands I think

                                        Conscious tech

                                        potemkin_aiP 1 Reply Last reply
                                        1
                                        • robiR robi

                                          @potemkin_ai scripting within n8n.. or even just a bunch of curl commands I think

                                          potemkin_aiP Offline
                                          potemkin_aiP Offline
                                          potemkin_ai
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #20

                                          @robi I wouldn't mind if you share whatever you have / ready to do, that's for sure.

                                          The problem is that, according to @girish , there is no API, unless I'm missing something.

                                          1 Reply Last reply
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