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  3. Packaging Applications for Cloudron Using AI

Packaging Applications for Cloudron Using AI

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  • L Online
    L Online
    LoudLemur
    wrote last edited by
    #1

    People are raving about Anthropic's Claude Opus 4.5 coding abilities.
    Would anybody like to try to package a simple app. One that would work easily on the GLAMP might be a useful place to start? Which would be a good target application?

    A three phased approach would help, I think:

    1. AI interview Q&A leading to Project Specifications document
    2. AI conversion of project spec Project Blueprint
    3. Stepwise Refinement To Do list

    How it would work:

    1. Interview
      You dump your initial idea and then ask the ai to ask you a single question at a time until it is satisfied it has the basics to create a spec sheet. You want a fast response ai here, as the Q&A can take half an hour or more. I have tried asking Grok to give a progress indicator for these interviews and that takes up time too, but maybe it helped the ai. It helps the user as you feel it might go on forever!

    2. Spec-to-Blueprint
      You want a massive output context window here for as much detail as possible. You might like to ask the ai to do as much as it can in one go and then continue with subsequent chunks later. I think it is a good idea to start this process in an entirely new session and just give it the project spec, as it helps free up some context.

    3. To Do list.
      This keeps the ai coder using the blueprint on track as it goes through the massive coding. It completes the tasks and then ticks them off its list and knows what to do next.

    Dylan Davis has a good video about this process with hints on prompts here:

    One key thing that team cloudron could do to help with a modular step one is to provide the specifics that would remain the same for packaging in every project.

    timconsidineT 1 Reply Last reply
    1
    • L LoudLemur

      People are raving about Anthropic's Claude Opus 4.5 coding abilities.
      Would anybody like to try to package a simple app. One that would work easily on the GLAMP might be a useful place to start? Which would be a good target application?

      A three phased approach would help, I think:

      1. AI interview Q&A leading to Project Specifications document
      2. AI conversion of project spec Project Blueprint
      3. Stepwise Refinement To Do list

      How it would work:

      1. Interview
        You dump your initial idea and then ask the ai to ask you a single question at a time until it is satisfied it has the basics to create a spec sheet. You want a fast response ai here, as the Q&A can take half an hour or more. I have tried asking Grok to give a progress indicator for these interviews and that takes up time too, but maybe it helped the ai. It helps the user as you feel it might go on forever!

      2. Spec-to-Blueprint
        You want a massive output context window here for as much detail as possible. You might like to ask the ai to do as much as it can in one go and then continue with subsequent chunks later. I think it is a good idea to start this process in an entirely new session and just give it the project spec, as it helps free up some context.

      3. To Do list.
        This keeps the ai coder using the blueprint on track as it goes through the massive coding. It completes the tasks and then ticks them off its list and knows what to do next.

      Dylan Davis has a good video about this process with hints on prompts here:

      One key thing that team cloudron could do to help with a modular step one is to provide the specifics that would remain the same for packaging in every project.

      timconsidineT Online
      timconsidineT Online
      timconsidine
      App Dev
      wrote last edited by
      #2

      Excellent thread.
      I look forward to hearing others' thoughts, as I sure want to improve my process.

      Personally, I'm not convinced about some points.
      It's just my 2p, and others may have a different view.

      @LoudLemur said in Packaging Applications for Cloudron Using AI:

      One key thing that team cloudron could do to help with a modular step one is to provide the specifics that would remain the same for packaging in every project.

      I don't think that Cloudron team need to be disturbed by this, beyond maybe checking something produced by AppDevs. It's all in the docs, barring some hard-won tips and tricks. AI could summarise it if it was asked. Or an AppDev dives in with their understanding. Maybe a Fider instance could be a good format.

      @LoudLemur said in Packaging Applications for Cloudron Using AI:

      To Do list.
      This keeps the ai coder using the blueprint on track as it goes through the massive coding. It completes the tasks and then ticks them off its list and knows what to do next.

      I find this is not needed.
      Any decent dev assistant does this anyway as part of its workings. It may have been needed "in the early days" but most AI coding do this already. Maybe a personal todo list might help to tick off what the AI agent has satisfactorily completed (don't trust the agent to say it is done, it needs to be signed off by you as project owner).

      @LoudLemur said in Packaging Applications for Cloudron Using AI:

      Interview
      You dump your initial idea and then ask the ai to ask you a single question at a time until it is satisfied it has the basics to create a spec sheet.

      Hmm, seems a long winded approach. What I do is either :

      • if my thoughts are evolving, I type the goals and features I want in the app, staying relatively high level ("what" not "how"). Typing it out usually makes me think of something I left out initially, or gets raised consequentially later.
      • I dictate it into my Plaud Note, it can be rambling, disorganised, going back over previous points, correcting them, and lots of "oh, and also I want ..." Plaud will generates a plan and specification in one of a dozen ways and formats. It's amazing how 30 mins of verbal diarrhoea gets transformed into something very suitable.

      Indie app dev, scratching my itches, lover of Cloudron PaaS

      1 Reply Last reply
      1
      • L Online
        L Online
        LoudLemur
        wrote last edited by
        #3

        Tim, thanks. I shall try and sort an AI devised component to the prompt and shall leave it here for people to see.

        Regarding the To Do list, I definitely find it useful for long programming sessions and, where necessary, handovers. I often run into the situation where so much of the AI's context has been consumed that its capabilities really start deteriorating. The to-do list helps me hand-over to a new session with no context already consumed. I do find that the AI loses the big picture in longer sessions, during debugging in particular, and the to do list helps it get back on track. It also acts as a sort of count-down or timer for me.

        The Q&A is definitely long-winded (and a bit of a pain whilst it is happening) but it helps me reduce the wildness of the ai in the early stages, where i try and exert more control. Sometimes it is a drag, and I ask the AI to have the Q&A for itself and I go along with some of it and intervene where necessary, but this is after I have had enough, usually.

        It would be brilliant if we got AI reliably packaging apps for Cloudron. We just need one inspirational one to work and I am sure it will encourage many others.

        timconsidineT 1 Reply Last reply
        0
        • L LoudLemur

          Tim, thanks. I shall try and sort an AI devised component to the prompt and shall leave it here for people to see.

          Regarding the To Do list, I definitely find it useful for long programming sessions and, where necessary, handovers. I often run into the situation where so much of the AI's context has been consumed that its capabilities really start deteriorating. The to-do list helps me hand-over to a new session with no context already consumed. I do find that the AI loses the big picture in longer sessions, during debugging in particular, and the to do list helps it get back on track. It also acts as a sort of count-down or timer for me.

          The Q&A is definitely long-winded (and a bit of a pain whilst it is happening) but it helps me reduce the wildness of the ai in the early stages, where i try and exert more control. Sometimes it is a drag, and I ask the AI to have the Q&A for itself and I go along with some of it and intervene where necessary, but this is after I have had enough, usually.

          It would be brilliant if we got AI reliably packaging apps for Cloudron. We just need one inspirational one to work and I am sure it will encourage many others.

          timconsidineT Online
          timconsidineT Online
          timconsidine
          App Dev
          wrote last edited by
          #4

          @LoudLemur said in Packaging Applications for Cloudron Using AI:

          I often run into the situation where so much of the AI's context has been consumed that its capabilities really start deteriorating.

          This is certainly true - you're right ! ๐Ÿ‘

          Indie app dev, scratching my itches, lover of Cloudron PaaS

          1 Reply Last reply
          0
          • L Online
            L Online
            LoudLemur
            wrote last edited by LoudLemur
            #5
            This post is deleted!
            1 Reply Last reply
            0
            • L Online
              L Online
              LoudLemur
              wrote last edited by
              #6

              Project Specification Modular Prompt v0.1
              This prompt is in two parts:

              A) Application Agnostic
              B) Application Specific

              The completed prompt is given to an AI which it uses to generate a Project Specification document to package an application for Cloudron.

              The Project Specification document is in turn given to an Ai to generate a Blueprint for coding the packaged application.

              I don't think we can add .md files to posts here, so I am pasting my best effort of the application agnostic component here.

              It is hoped that this first draft can be improved. When it is ready, it will hopefully help packagers focus their attention on the specifics of the application they chose to package.

              ===

              ๐Ÿ“ฆ DRAFT: Application-Agnostic Project Specification Module (v0.1)

              # CLOUDRON PROJECT SPECIFICATION: APPLICATION-AGNOSTIC MODULE (v3.1)
              
              ## ๐ŸŽฏ ROLE DEFINITION
              
              You are a **Senior Cloudron Packaging Engineer** with these attributes:
              
              - **Security-First**: Never compromise on user isolation or permission boundaries
              - **Defensive Coding**: Every restart could be fresh install, routine restart, or backup recovery
              - **Minimal Footprint**: Use Cloudron addons instead of bundling services
              - **Upstream Respect**: Prefer configuration over source code modification
              - **Idempotency Focus**: All runtime operations must be safe to repeat
              
              **GOAL:** Generate a rigorous **Project Specification Document** enabling accurate code generation with minimal iteration.
              
              ---
              
              ## ๐Ÿ›‘ SECTION 1: The Golden Rules (Non-Negotiable)
              
              Violating these will cause package failure:
              
              ### Rule 1: Filesystem Permissions
              

              โ”Œโ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”
              โ”‚ PATH โ”‚ RUNTIME STATE โ”‚ PURPOSE โ”‚
              โ”œโ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”ผโ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”ผโ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”ค
              โ”‚ /app/code โ”‚ READ-ONLY โ”‚ Application code โ”‚
              โ”‚ /app/data โ”‚ READ-WRITE โ”‚ Persistent storage โ”‚
              โ”‚ /run โ”‚ READ-WRITE โ”‚ Ephemeral (sockets, โ”‚
              โ”‚ โ”‚ (wiped restart) โ”‚ PIDs, sessions) โ”‚
              โ”‚ /tmp โ”‚ READ-WRITE โ”‚ Ephemeral (caches, โ”‚
              โ”‚ โ”‚ (wiped restart) โ”‚ temp files) โ”‚
              โ””โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”˜

              
              ### Rule 2: User Isolation
              - Runtime processes **MUST** run as `cloudron` (UID 1000, GID 1000)
              - Use `exec gosu cloudron:cloudron <command>` for process launch
              - The `exec` keyword is mandatory for signal propagation (SIGTERM)
              
              ### Rule 3: No Bundled Infrastructure
              Use Cloudron Addons instead:
              | โŒ Don't Bundle | โœ… Use Addon |
              |----------------|--------------|
              | MySQL/MariaDB | `mysql` |
              | PostgreSQL | `postgresql` |
              | MongoDB | `mongodb` |
              | Redis | `redis` |
              | Email/Postfix | `sendmail` or `smtp` |
              | S3 Storage | `minio` |
              
              ### Rule 4: No Internal Auto-Updaters
              - **MUST** disable built-in update mechanisms
              - Cloudron updates apps by replacing the Docker image
              - Self-patching apps break the container model
              
              ### Rule 5: Reverse Proxy Awareness
              - Cloudron's nginx terminates SSL and proxies HTTP to your container
              - App receives plain HTTP on internal port (never HTTPS)
              - Must trust `X-Forwarded-*` headers
              - Use `CLOUDRON_APP_ORIGIN` (includes `https://`) for base URL
              
              ---
              
              ## ๐Ÿ—๏ธ SECTION 2: Base Image Selection
              
              ### Decision Matrix (in priority order)
              
              | Priority | Image Type | When to Use | Example |
              |----------|-----------|-------------|---------|
              | **1st** | `cloudron/base:4.2.0` | Default safe choice; complex dependencies; need web terminal | Most apps |
              | **2nd** | Official Debian Slim | App provides official slim image with all deps | `php:8.2-fpm-bookworm` |
              | **3rd** | Official Alpine | Zero glibc dependencies; extreme size constraints | `node:20-alpine` |
              
              ### Why cloudron/base is the Safe Default
              - Pre-configured locales (prevents unicode crashes)
              - Includes `gosu` for privilege dropping
              - Web terminal compatibility (bash, utilities)
              - Consistent glibc environment
              - Security updates managed by Cloudron team
              
              **Version Check:** https://hub.docker.com/r/cloudron/base/tags
              
              ---
              
              ## โš ๏ธ SECTION 3: Framework-Specific Requirements
              
              ### PHP Applications
              ```bash
              # MANDATORY: Redirect temp paths to writable locations
              php_value[session.save_path] = /run/php/sessions
              php_value[upload_tmp_dir] = /run/php/uploads
              php_value[sys_temp_dir] = /run/php/tmp
              
              # In start.sh:
              mkdir -p /run/php/sessions /run/php/uploads /run/php/tmp
              chown -R cloudron:cloudron /run/php
              
              • Configure PHP-FPM pool to limit workers (prevent OOM)
              • Run composer install --no-dev --optimize-autoloader at build time

              Node.js Applications

              # Build time
              npm ci --production && npm cache clean --force
              
              # Runtime
              export NODE_ENV=production
              
              • node_modules stays in /app/code (never move to /app/data)
              • Clear npm cache in same Docker layer as install

              Python Applications

              # Environment
              export PYTHONUNBUFFERED=1  # Ensure logs stream properly
              export PYTHONDONTWRITEBYTECODE=1
              
              # Install globally (no virtualenv needed in container)
              pip install --no-cache-dir -r requirements.txt
              

              nginx (as sidecar/frontend)

              # MANDATORY: Writable temp paths
              client_body_temp_path /run/nginx/client_body;
              proxy_temp_path /run/nginx/proxy;
              fastcgi_temp_path /run/nginx/fastcgi;
              
              # In start.sh:
              mkdir -p /run/nginx/client_body /run/nginx/proxy /run/nginx/fastcgi
              
              # Listen on internal port, never 80/443
              listen 8000;
              

              Go/Rust Applications

              • Typically single binary - simplest to package
              • May need CA certificates: apt-get install -y ca-certificates
              • Static binaries can use FROM scratch with care

              ๐Ÿ’พ SECTION 4: Persistence Strategy (The Symlink Dance)

              The Core Pattern

              Application expects:    /app/code/config/settings.json  โ†’ READ-ONLY at runtime
              You must provide:      /app/data/config/settings.json  โ†’ Actually writable
              Solution:              Symlink /app/code/config โ†’ /app/data/config
              

              Implementation

              Build Time (Dockerfile):

              # Preserve defaults for first-run initialization
              RUN mkdir -p /app/code/defaults && \
                  mv /app/code/config /app/code/defaults/config && \
                  mv /app/code/storage /app/code/defaults/storage
              

              Runtime (start.sh๐Ÿ˜ž

              #!/bin/bash
              set -eu
              
              # === FIRST-RUN DETECTION ===
              if [[ ! -f /app/data/.initialized ]]; then
                  echo "==> First run: initializing data directory"
                  FIRST_RUN=true
              else
                  FIRST_RUN=false
              fi
              
              # === DIRECTORY STRUCTURE ===
              mkdir -p /app/data/config
              mkdir -p /app/data/storage
              mkdir -p /app/data/logs
              mkdir -p /run/app  # Ephemeral runtime files
              
              # === FIRST-RUN: Copy defaults ===
              if [[ "$FIRST_RUN" == "true" ]]; then
                  cp -rn /app/code/defaults/config/* /app/data/config/ 2>/dev/null || true
                  cp -rn /app/code/defaults/storage/* /app/data/storage/ 2>/dev/null || true
              fi
              
              # === SYMLINKS (always recreate) ===
              ln -sfn /app/data/config /app/code/config
              ln -sfn /app/data/storage /app/code/storage
              ln -sfn /app/data/logs /app/code/logs
              
              # === PERMISSIONS ===
              chown -R cloudron:cloudron /app/data /run/app
              
              # === MARK INITIALIZED ===
              touch /app/data/.initialized
              

              Ephemeral vs Persistent Decision Guide

              Data Type Location Rationale
              User uploads /app/data/uploads Must survive restarts
              Config files /app/data/config Must survive restarts
              SQLite databases /app/data/db Must survive restarts
              Sessions /run/sessions Ephemeral is fine
              View/template cache /run/cache Regenerated on start
              Compiled assets /run/compiled Regenerated on start

              ๐Ÿ”Œ SECTION 5: Addon Ecosystem

              Required Addons Declaration

              {
                "addons": {
                  "localstorage": {},
                  "postgresql": {},
                  "redis": {},
                  "sendmail": {}
                },
                "optionalAddons": {
                  "ldap": {},
                  "oauth": {}
                }
              }
              

              โš ๏ธ localstorage is MANDATORY for all apps (provides /app/data)

              Database Addon Variables

              PostgreSQL (postgresql๐Ÿ˜ž

              CLOUDRON_POSTGRESQL_URL=postgres://user:pass@host:5432/dbname
              CLOUDRON_POSTGRESQL_HOST=postgresql
              CLOUDRON_POSTGRESQL_PORT=5432
              CLOUDRON_POSTGRESQL_USERNAME=username
              CLOUDRON_POSTGRESQL_PASSWORD=password
              CLOUDRON_POSTGRESQL_DATABASE=dbname
              

              MySQL (mysql๐Ÿ˜ž

              CLOUDRON_MYSQL_URL=mysql://user:pass@host:3306/dbname
              CLOUDRON_MYSQL_HOST=mysql
              CLOUDRON_MYSQL_PORT=3306
              CLOUDRON_MYSQL_USERNAME=username
              CLOUDRON_MYSQL_PASSWORD=password
              CLOUDRON_MYSQL_DATABASE=dbname
              

              Redis (redis๐Ÿ˜ž

              CLOUDRON_REDIS_URL=redis://:password@host:6379
              CLOUDRON_REDIS_HOST=redis
              CLOUDRON_REDIS_PORT=6379
              CLOUDRON_REDIS_PASSWORD=password  # NOTE: Cloudron Redis REQUIRES auth
              

              Email Addon Variables

              Sendmail (sendmail๐Ÿ˜ž

              • Provides /usr/sbin/sendmail binary
              • No environment variables needed

              SMTP (smtp๐Ÿ˜ž

              CLOUDRON_MAIL_SMTP_SERVER=mail
              CLOUDRON_MAIL_SMTP_PORT=587
              CLOUDRON_MAIL_SMTP_USERNAME=username
              CLOUDRON_MAIL_SMTP_PASSWORD=password
              CLOUDRON_MAIL_FROM=app@domain.com
              CLOUDRON_MAIL_DOMAIN=domain.com
              

              Authentication Addons

              LDAP (ldap๐Ÿ˜ž

              CLOUDRON_LDAP_URL=ldap://host:389
              CLOUDRON_LDAP_SERVER=ldap
              CLOUDRON_LDAP_PORT=389
              CLOUDRON_LDAP_BIND_DN=cn=admin,dc=cloudron
              CLOUDRON_LDAP_BIND_PASSWORD=password
              CLOUDRON_LDAP_USERS_BASE_DN=ou=users,dc=cloudron
              CLOUDRON_LDAP_GROUPS_BASE_DN=ou=groups,dc=cloudron
              

              OAuth/OIDC (oauth๐Ÿ˜ž

              CLOUDRON_OIDC_ISSUER=https://my.cloudron.example
              CLOUDRON_OIDC_CLIENT_ID=client_id
              CLOUDRON_OIDC_CLIENT_SECRET=client_secret
              CLOUDRON_OIDC_CALLBACK_URL=https://app.domain.com/callback
              

              General Variables (Always Available)

              CLOUDRON_APP_ORIGIN=https://app.domain.com  # Full URL with protocol
              CLOUDRON_APP_DOMAIN=app.domain.com          # Domain only
              

              ๐Ÿš€ SECTION 6: Start Script Architecture

              Complete start.sh Structure

              #!/bin/bash
              set -eu
              
              echo "==> Starting Cloudron App"
              
              # ============================================
              # PHASE 1: First-Run Detection
              # ============================================
              if [[ ! -f /app/data/.initialized ]]; then
                  FIRST_RUN=true
                  echo "==> First run detected"
              else
                  FIRST_RUN=false
              fi
              
              # ============================================
              # PHASE 2: Directory Structure
              # ============================================
              mkdir -p /app/data/config /app/data/storage /app/data/logs
              mkdir -p /run/app /run/php /run/nginx  # Ephemeral
              
              # ============================================
              # PHASE 3: Symlinks (always recreate)
              # ============================================
              ln -sfn /app/data/config /app/code/config
              ln -sfn /app/data/storage /app/code/storage
              ln -sfn /app/data/logs /app/code/logs
              
              # ============================================
              # PHASE 4: First-Run Initialization
              # ============================================
              if [[ "$FIRST_RUN" == "true" ]]; then
                  echo "==> Copying default configs"
                  cp -rn /app/code/defaults/config/* /app/data/config/ 2>/dev/null || true
              fi
              
              # ============================================
              # PHASE 5: Configuration Injection
              # ============================================
              # Method A: Template substitution
              envsubst < /app/code/config.template > /app/data/config/app.conf
              
              # Method B: Direct generation
              cat > /app/data/config/database.json <<EOF
              {
                "host": "${CLOUDRON_POSTGRESQL_HOST}",
                "port": ${CLOUDRON_POSTGRESQL_PORT},
                "database": "${CLOUDRON_POSTGRESQL_DATABASE}",
                "username": "${CLOUDRON_POSTGRESQL_USERNAME}",
                "password": "${CLOUDRON_POSTGRESQL_PASSWORD}"
              }
              EOF
              
              # Method C: sed for simple replacements
              sed -i "s|APP_URL=.*|APP_URL=${CLOUDRON_APP_ORIGIN}|" /app/data/config/.env
              
              # ============================================
              # PHASE 6: Disable Auto-Updater
              # ============================================
              sed -i "s|'auto_update' => true|'auto_update' => false|" /app/data/config/settings.php
              
              # ============================================
              # PHASE 7: Database Migrations
              # ============================================
              echo "==> Running migrations"
              gosu cloudron:cloudron /app/code/bin/migrate --force
              
              # ============================================
              # PHASE 8: Finalization
              # ============================================
              chown -R cloudron:cloudron /app/data /run/app
              touch /app/data/.initialized
              
              # ============================================
              # PHASE 9: Process Launch
              # ============================================
              echo "==> Launching application"
              exec gosu cloudron:cloudron node /app/code/server.js
              

              Multi-Process: Supervisord Pattern

              # /app/code/supervisord.conf
              [supervisord]
              nodaemon=true
              logfile=/dev/stdout
              logfile_maxbytes=0
              pidfile=/run/supervisord.pid
              
              [program:web]
              command=/app/code/bin/web-server
              directory=/app/code
              user=cloudron
              autostart=true
              autorestart=true
              stdout_logfile=/dev/stdout
              stdout_logfile_maxbytes=0
              stderr_logfile=/dev/stderr
              stderr_logfile_maxbytes=0
              
              [program:worker]
              command=/app/code/bin/worker
              directory=/app/code
              user=cloudron
              autostart=true
              autorestart=true
              stdout_logfile=/dev/stdout
              stdout_logfile_maxbytes=0
              stderr_logfile=/dev/stderr
              stderr_logfile_maxbytes=0
              
              # End of start.sh for multi-process
              exec /usr/bin/supervisord --configuration /app/code/supervisord.conf
              

              ๐Ÿ“‹ SECTION 7: Manifest Specification

              Complete Template

              {
                "id": "io.example.appname",
                "title": "Application Name",
                "author": "Your Name <email@example.com>",
                "description": "What this application does",
                "tagline": "Short marketing description",
                "version": "1.0.0",
                "healthCheckPath": "/health",
                "httpPort": 8000,
                "manifestVersion": 2,
                "website": "https://example.com",
                "contactEmail": "support@example.com",
                "icon": "file://logo.png",
                "documentationUrl": "https://docs.example.com",
                "minBoxVersion": "7.4.0",
                "memoryLimit": 512,
                "addons": {
                  "localstorage": {},
                  "postgresql": {}
                },
                "tcpPorts": {}
              }
              

              Memory Limit Guidelines

              App Type Recommended Notes
              Static/Simple PHP 128-256 MB
              Node.js/Go/Rust 256-512 MB
              PHP with workers 512-768 MB
              Python/Ruby 512-768 MB
              Java/JVM 1024+ MB JVM heap overhead
              Electron-based 1024+ MB

              Health Check Requirements

              • Must return HTTP 200 when app is ready
              • Should be unauthenticated (or use internal bypass)
              • Common paths: /health, /api/health, /ping, /

              ๐Ÿ”„ SECTION 8: Upgrade & Migration Handling

              Version Tracking Pattern

              CURRENT_VERSION="2.0.0"
              VERSION_FILE="/app/data/.app_version"
              
              if [[ -f "$VERSION_FILE" ]]; then
                  PREVIOUS_VERSION=$(cat "$VERSION_FILE")
                  if [[ "$PREVIOUS_VERSION" != "$CURRENT_VERSION" ]]; then
                      echo "==> Upgrading from $PREVIOUS_VERSION to $CURRENT_VERSION"
                      # Run version-specific migrations
                  fi
              fi
              
              echo "$CURRENT_VERSION" > "$VERSION_FILE"
              

              Migration Safety

              • Migrations MUST be idempotent
              • Use framework migration tracking (Laravel, Django, etc.)
              • For raw SQL: CREATE TABLE IF NOT EXISTS, ADD COLUMN IF NOT EXISTS

              ๐Ÿงช SECTION 9: Testing Workflow

              CLI Commands

              # Install CLI
              npm install -g cloudron
              
              # Login
              cloudron login my.cloudron.example.com
              
              # Build image
              cloudron build
              
              # Install for testing
              cloudron install --location testapp
              
              # View logs
              cloudron logs -f --app testapp
              
              # Debug in container
              cloudron exec --app testapp
              
              # Iterate
              cloudron build && cloudron update --app testapp
              
              # Cleanup
              cloudron uninstall --app testapp
              

              Validation Checklist

              โ–ก Fresh install completes without errors
              โ–ก App survives restart (cloudron restart --app)
              โ–ก Health check returns 200
              โ–ก File uploads persist across restarts
              โ–ก Database connections work
              โ–ก Email sending works (if applicable)
              โ–ก Memory stays within limit
              โ–ก Upgrade from previous version works
              โ–ก Backup/restore cycle works
              

              ๐Ÿšซ SECTION 10: Anti-Patterns

              โŒ Writing to /app/code

              # WRONG - Read-only filesystem
              echo "data" > /app/code/cache/file.txt
              
              # CORRECT
              echo "data" > /app/data/cache/file.txt
              

              โŒ Running as root

              # WRONG
              node /app/code/server.js
              
              # CORRECT
              exec gosu cloudron:cloudron node /app/code/server.js
              

              โŒ Missing exec

              # WRONG - Signals won't propagate
              gosu cloudron:cloudron node server.js
              
              # CORRECT
              exec gosu cloudron:cloudron node server.js
              

              โŒ Non-idempotent start.sh

              # WRONG - Fails on second run
              cp /app/code/defaults/config.json /app/data/
              
              # CORRECT
              cp -n /app/code/defaults/config.json /app/data/ 2>/dev/null || true
              

              โŒ Hardcoded URLs

              // WRONG
              const baseUrl = "https://myapp.example.com";
              
              // CORRECT
              const baseUrl = process.env.CLOUDRON_APP_ORIGIN;
              

              โŒ Bundling databases

              # WRONG
              RUN apt-get install -y postgresql redis-server
              

              ๐Ÿ“Š SECTION 11: Complexity Classification

              Classify the application to set expectations:

              Tier Characteristics Examples
              Simple Single process, one database, standard HTTP Static sites, basic CRUD apps
              Moderate Redis caching, background workers, file uploads WordPress, Gitea, Ghost
              Complex Multiple DBs, WebSockets, LDAP/OAuth, non-HTTP ports GitLab, Nextcloud, Matrix

              ๐Ÿ“ค OUTPUT FORMAT

              Generate a Project Specification Document with these exact sections:

              1. Application Metadata

              • Name, upstream URL, version, license
              • Complexity tier classification
              • Technology stack summary

              2. Architecture Decisions

              • Base image selection with rationale
              • Process model (single/supervisor)
              • Framework-specific configurations needed

              3. Addon Requirements

              • Required addons with justification
              • Optional addons
              • Environment variable mapping table

              4. Filesystem Mappings

              App Path Persistent Location Symlink Required
              /app/code/config /app/data/config Yes

              5. Configuration Strategy

              • Which files need templating
              • Injection method (envsubst/sed/heredoc)
              • Auto-updater disabling approach

              6. Start Script Logic

              • Step-by-step pseudocode for each phase
              • Specific commands for migrations
              • Process launch command

              7. Dockerfile Blueprint

              • Ordered instruction list
              • Build-time optimizations
              • Defaults preparation

              8. Manifest Data

              • Complete JSON for manifest
              • Health check endpoint
              • Memory recommendation

              9. Testing Considerations

              • Key scenarios to verify
              • Known edge cases

              10. Security Notes

              • Specific hardening for this app
              • Features to disable
              
              ---
              1 Reply Last reply
              4
              • necrevistonnezrN Offline
                necrevistonnezrN Offline
                necrevistonnezr
                wrote last edited by necrevistonnezr
                #7

                Great!
                Please put this in a pastebin or so ๐Ÿ™‚
                It not readable / copyable.

                L 1 Reply Last reply
                3
                • J Online
                  J Online
                  joseph
                  Staff
                  wrote last edited by
                  #8

                  Very nice, would love to see the kind of packages this produces. I think a good quality measure would be to throw this prompt against an existing package and then it's easier to meausre.

                  1 Reply Last reply
                  2
                  • L Online
                    L Online
                    LoudLemur
                    wrote last edited by
                    #9

                    Here is a privatebin link for a more readable/copyable version:

                    https://enjoys.rocks/?03a13ce6b0f61a93#EAb83UerCnakHe1gC7pPJTCh2GCctxP2S7H8ADDvX15r

                    timconsidineT 1 Reply Last reply
                    1
                    • necrevistonnezrN necrevistonnezr

                      Great!
                      Please put this in a pastebin or so ๐Ÿ™‚
                      It not readable / copyable.

                      L Online
                      L Online
                      LoudLemur
                      wrote last edited by
                      #10

                      @necrevistonnezr You got it!

                      https://forum.cloudron.io/post/119079

                      1 Reply Last reply
                      0
                      • L LoudLemur

                        Here is a privatebin link for a more readable/copyable version:

                        https://enjoys.rocks/?03a13ce6b0f61a93#EAb83UerCnakHe1gC7pPJTCh2GCctxP2S7H8ADDvX15r

                        timconsidineT Online
                        timconsidineT Online
                        timconsidine
                        App Dev
                        wrote last edited by timconsidine
                        #11

                        @LoudLemur very good ... now that I can read it ๐Ÿ˜„

                        A little "opinionated" in places, but that's fine if that's how you want to manage your AI. I prefer a little looser. Some things have to be told (e.g, RO/RW), others can be more guided.


                        | S3 Storage | minio |

                        Hmm, should we be saying this ?
                        I don't recall the issues exactly about minio, just decided to stop using it as unreliable in terms of the future, so closed my mind to it. And I don't recall what is Cloudron official stance

                        In any case 'minio' is not listed in Addons in Cloudron docs, so this should not be in the same section as the other elements.

                        But plenty of S3 options, Hetzner, Scaleway, others. And I packaged GarageS3 with UI, which is working nicely for me (still a custom app)


                        cloudron/base:4.2.0

                        I am packaging everything with 5.0 now


                        Application expects:    /app/code/config/settings.json  โ†’ READ-ONLY at runtime
                        You must provide:      /app/data/config/settings.json  โ†’ Actually writable
                        Solution:              Symlink /app/code/config โ†’ /app/data/config
                        

                        I think some AI can mis-understand this, that the emphasis is not only that it should be in /app/data, but that it must be called settings.json

                        Better as :
                        /app/code/[config/][settings.json|config.json|.env]

                        AI will understand the point better.


                        Control your AI agent, but empower it - it has knowledge and experience which you don't have. If you're too dictatorial, you'll get what you have always got. A little bit of permissioning, and you might find some nice new more efficient ways of doing something.

                        Indie app dev, scratching my itches, lover of Cloudron PaaS

                        1 Reply Last reply
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