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Cloudron Forum

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  1. Cloudron Forum
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  3. What's coming in 6.0 (take 2)

What's coming in 6.0 (take 2)

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  • imc67I imc67

    @girish can you also mount an β€˜on server’ folder like that?

    girishG Offline
    girishG Offline
    girish
    Staff
    wrote on last edited by girish
    #50

    @imc67 Yes. Currently, the main restriction is that you can only add host paths under /mnt and /media as a volume. So, you can create some NFS mount or SSHFS mount there and then add it as a volume and then mount it into an app.

    imc67I 1 Reply Last reply
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    • ruihildtR ruihildt

      @girish This is great news. They are doing what I would have liked to do. πŸ™‚

      As an aside, they are advertising Cloudron as free software, which is not correct at the moment.

      scookeS Offline
      scookeS Offline
      scooke
      wrote on last edited by
      #51

      @ruihildt There is a free tier, and if the "5 Mailboxes" means there is some functional email, then that is not bad.

      A life lived in fear is a life half-lived

      ruihildtR 1 Reply Last reply
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      • scookeS scooke

        @ruihildt There is a free tier, and if the "5 Mailboxes" means there is some functional email, then that is not bad.

        ruihildtR Offline
        ruihildtR Offline
        ruihildt
        wrote on last edited by
        #52

        @scooke I'm not sure what you're replying to?

        scookeS 1 Reply Last reply
        1
        • girishG girish

          With volumes, you can always use different players with the same media πŸ™‚ It seems each players has different strengths, but I have to use them a lot more to form an opinion.

          jdaviescoatesJ Online
          jdaviescoatesJ Online
          jdaviescoates
          wrote on last edited by
          #53

          @girish can't wait to have volumes to play with! πŸ˜› what's your guestimate ETA?

          I use Cloudron with Gandi & Hetzner

          girishG 1 Reply Last reply
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          • jdaviescoatesJ jdaviescoates

            @girish can't wait to have volumes to play with! πŸ˜› what's your guestimate ETA?

            girishG Offline
            girishG Offline
            girish
            Staff
            wrote on last edited by
            #54

            @jdaviescoates Cloudron 6 is ~2-3 weeks away. The translation project is quite a massive change, so maybe I am being overlay optimistic here.

            jdaviescoatesJ mehdiM 2 Replies Last reply
            5
            • girishG girish

              @jdaviescoates Cloudron 6 is ~2-3 weeks away. The translation project is quite a massive change, so maybe I am being overlay optimistic here.

              jdaviescoatesJ Online
              jdaviescoatesJ Online
              jdaviescoates
              wrote on last edited by
              #55

              @girish all power to your elbow! (i.e. good luck!) πŸ™‚

              I use Cloudron with Gandi & Hetzner

              1 Reply Last reply
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              • ruihildtR ruihildt

                @scooke I'm not sure what you're replying to?

                scookeS Offline
                scookeS Offline
                scooke
                wrote on last edited by
                #56

                @ruihildt Your comment from 26 days ago, "As an aside, they are advertising Cloudron as free software, which is not correct at the moment." I came across it as I read through the entire thread.

                A life lived in fear is a life half-lived

                jdaviescoatesJ 1 Reply Last reply
                0
                • scookeS scooke

                  @ruihildt Your comment from 26 days ago, "As an aside, they are advertising Cloudron as free software, which is not correct at the moment." I came across it as I read through the entire thread.

                  jdaviescoatesJ Online
                  jdaviescoatesJ Online
                  jdaviescoates
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #57

                  @scooke said in What's coming in 6.0 (take 2):

                  @ruihildt Your comment from 26 days ago, "As an aside, they are advertising Cloudron as free software, which is not correct at the moment." I came across it as I read through the entire thread.

                  I think you've missed the point πŸ˜„

                  @ruihildt was talking about free as in freedom (which is how that project advertises Cloudron), not free as in price.

                  I use Cloudron with Gandi & Hetzner

                  scookeS 1 Reply Last reply
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                  • jdaviescoatesJ jdaviescoates

                    @scooke said in What's coming in 6.0 (take 2):

                    @ruihildt Your comment from 26 days ago, "As an aside, they are advertising Cloudron as free software, which is not correct at the moment." I came across it as I read through the entire thread.

                    I think you've missed the point πŸ˜„

                    @ruihildt was talking about free as in freedom (which is how that project advertises Cloudron), not free as in price.

                    scookeS Offline
                    scookeS Offline
                    scooke
                    wrote on last edited by scooke
                    #58

                    @jdaviescoates I figured so. But I wonder why @ruihildt bothered to point out what he did. The few lines I found on the website aren't actually advertising Cloudron as %100 open source, but rather that the code they use is open source. I'd be more bothered by their approach, like Framasoft, where if the user has no idea about the existence of Cloudron, in this case, the company's description of what they do (https://osinum.fr/) makes it sound like it is and has been all their own doing. Much of what they promise to do is based on whether Cloudron, or all the other myriad open source projects in use, has or will implement it, but they don't clearly specify that. If I found them, and started using them, and THEN discovered they actually use Cloudron, I'd be a little miffed, and would just switch over to Cloudron.
                    Anyway, I have no clue what "being sponsored by Medias-Cite" means, but if the Cloudron team are fine with it, and this "sponsoring" helps move Cloudron forward, great.

                    (A bit more reading shows that they, osinum.fr, are charging a minimum 150 EURO/month!!! I guess they are paying Cloudron for the Premium Plus plan. They offer, for almost triple the price of Cloudron's pricing,
                    1 domain name (.fr, .com, .org, .net)
                    Accommodation in France
                    Shared server
                    100 GB
                    5 applications
                    50 users
                    Management of user groups
                    Daily backups
                    Surveillance / Monitoring / Security
                    Email support

                    Maybe I should get into offering cloudron!!

                    A life lived in fear is a life half-lived

                    BenoitB 1 Reply Last reply
                    0
                    • girishG Offline
                      girishG Offline
                      girish
                      Staff
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #59

                      hey guys, let's stick to Cloudron 6 related discussion here πŸ™‚ Feel free to open new thread for other topics.

                      jdaviescoatesJ 1 Reply Last reply
                      3
                      • girishG girish

                        hey guys, let's stick to Cloudron 6 related discussion here πŸ™‚ Feel free to open new thread for other topics.

                        jdaviescoatesJ Online
                        jdaviescoatesJ Online
                        jdaviescoates
                        wrote on last edited by jdaviescoates
                        #60

                        @girish fair enough πŸ™‚

                        Just to quickly say (sorry) to @scooke re:

                        the user has no idea about the existence of Cloudron

                        I'm not sure where you are looking but on https://osinum.fr/ there is this:

                        cloudron_open_source.png

                        Which translates as:

                        "The core of OSINUM is the Cloudron software and its team of developers."

                        So 1) they seem quite clear about being based on Cloudron, and 2) they've actually changed what it used to say which @ruihildt was commenting on.

                        Previously it said: "The core of OSINUM is the open source software Cloudron and its team of developers."

                        Edit: see my screenshot here https://twitter.com/jdaviescoates/status/1314243996441620480

                        /end.

                        I use Cloudron with Gandi & Hetzner

                        scookeS 1 Reply Last reply
                        1
                        • jdaviescoatesJ jdaviescoates

                          @girish fair enough πŸ™‚

                          Just to quickly say (sorry) to @scooke re:

                          the user has no idea about the existence of Cloudron

                          I'm not sure where you are looking but on https://osinum.fr/ there is this:

                          cloudron_open_source.png

                          Which translates as:

                          "The core of OSINUM is the Cloudron software and its team of developers."

                          So 1) they seem quite clear about being based on Cloudron, and 2) they've actually changed what it used to say which @ruihildt was commenting on.

                          Previously it said: "The core of OSINUM is the open source software Cloudron and its team of developers."

                          Edit: see my screenshot here https://twitter.com/jdaviescoates/status/1314243996441620480

                          /end.

                          scookeS Offline
                          scookeS Offline
                          scooke
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #61

                          @jdaviescoates @girish D'accord.

                          A life lived in fear is a life half-lived

                          1 Reply Last reply
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                          • girishG girish

                            Some updates on volume management. There is now a volume view.

                            51ffb468-f11f-41cf-813f-c36e10ae0e3c-image.png

                            You add a host path as a volume and give it a name. This is most likely some EBS/external hard disk/Block Storage. There is also the file manager integration (the button next to the delete button).

                            You can then go to the app view and mount these volumes into the apps. There is a new Storage section.

                            88466958-b414-40ae-bff6-32edf6dac6bc-image.png

                            There is a section overload in the app configure view πŸ™‚ We are looking to reducing the list of sections in the left pane. It's making things hard to find.

                            jdaviescoatesJ Online
                            jdaviescoatesJ Online
                            jdaviescoates
                            wrote on last edited by jdaviescoates
                            #62

                            @girish said in What's coming in 6.0 (take 2):

                            You add a host path as a volume and give it a name. This is most likely some EBS/external hard disk/Block Storage.

                            I'm assuming volumes will support CIFS unlike current external data storage, right? (if not I had better cancel the Hetzner storage box I just ordered for this purpuse (or just start using it for backups where CIFS is already allowed)! πŸ™‚ )

                            I use Cloudron with Gandi & Hetzner

                            mehdiM 1 Reply Last reply
                            0
                            • girishG girish

                              @imc67 Yes. Currently, the main restriction is that you can only add host paths under /mnt and /media as a volume. So, you can create some NFS mount or SSHFS mount there and then add it as a volume and then mount it into an app.

                              imc67I Online
                              imc67I Online
                              imc67
                              translator
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #63

                              @girish said in What's coming in 6.0 (take 2):

                              @imc67 Yes. Currently, the main restriction is that you can only add host paths under /mnt and /media as a volume. So, you can create some NFS mount or SSHFS mount there and then add it as a volume and then mount it into an app.

                              I really would appreciate it if you could create a step by step instruction in the docs by that time. I guess more users with large base β€œdisk” would want to use this!

                              1 Reply Last reply
                              1
                              • jdaviescoatesJ jdaviescoates

                                @girish said in What's coming in 6.0 (take 2):

                                You add a host path as a volume and give it a name. This is most likely some EBS/external hard disk/Block Storage.

                                I'm assuming volumes will support CIFS unlike current external data storage, right? (if not I had better cancel the Hetzner storage box I just ordered for this purpuse (or just start using it for backups where CIFS is already allowed)! πŸ™‚ )

                                mehdiM Offline
                                mehdiM Offline
                                mehdi
                                App Dev
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #64

                                @jdaviescoates said in What's coming in 6.0 (take 2):

                                I'm assuming volumes will support CIFS unlike current external data storage, right? (if not I had better cancel the Hetzner storage box I just ordered for this purpuse (or just start using it for backups where CIFS is already allowed)! )

                                The underlying problem is still there, CIFS / SMB don't support users and groups in the FS, so i guess it will depend on the apps, if they rely on FS permissions or not

                                jdaviescoatesJ 1 Reply Last reply
                                1
                                • mehdiM mehdi

                                  @jdaviescoates said in What's coming in 6.0 (take 2):

                                  I'm assuming volumes will support CIFS unlike current external data storage, right? (if not I had better cancel the Hetzner storage box I just ordered for this purpuse (or just start using it for backups where CIFS is already allowed)! )

                                  The underlying problem is still there, CIFS / SMB don't support users and groups in the FS, so i guess it will depend on the apps, if they rely on FS permissions or not

                                  jdaviescoatesJ Online
                                  jdaviescoatesJ Online
                                  jdaviescoates
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #65

                                  @mehdi hmz, thanks, so I'm guessing likely not then.

                                  So Hetzner storage boxes likely a no no for volumes (I guess I'll cancel the one I've just ordered, or just use it for backups)

                                  I wonder what would be a good option...

                                  I guess maybe Hetzner Volumes would work well, but they cost a lot more (a 500GB storage box is 5.68€/mo, whereas a 500GB Volume is 24€/mo)

                                  I use Cloudron with Gandi & Hetzner

                                  1 Reply Last reply
                                  0
                                  • girishG Offline
                                    girishG Offline
                                    girish
                                    Staff
                                    wrote on last edited by girish
                                    #66

                                    @jdaviescoates said in What's coming in 6.0 (take 2):

                                    So Hetzner storage boxes likely a no no for volumes (I guess I'll cancel the one I've just ordered, or just use it for backups)

                                    So, there's two kinds of storages:

                                    • Data Directory - This is a location used by the app and only the app uses it exclusively. The app will store say attachments, profile pics, avatars, plugin code and whatever it needs in this directory. Data directory has to be ext4 because the packaging code requires file system permissions to work etc. This is the location you specify in https://docs.cloudron.io/storage/#app-data-directory . You can think of this app as part of an app's "state" (just like the database) and it is thus backed up and restored.

                                    • External Directory/Volumes - This location can be any file system. Mostly the app just reads file (docs, music, movies etc) from this. So the permissions don't matter. It is also expected that these directories can be shared across apps. This is similar to the home directory on linux or My Documents on Windows. It's just separate directory that apps have access to. If you uninstall, backup apps, that folder is untouched. For these kind of directories, the file system type is not relevant. It can be anything - sshfs, cifs, ext2 whatever.

                                    jdaviescoatesJ 1 Reply Last reply
                                    5
                                    • girishG girish

                                      @jdaviescoates said in What's coming in 6.0 (take 2):

                                      So Hetzner storage boxes likely a no no for volumes (I guess I'll cancel the one I've just ordered, or just use it for backups)

                                      So, there's two kinds of storages:

                                      • Data Directory - This is a location used by the app and only the app uses it exclusively. The app will store say attachments, profile pics, avatars, plugin code and whatever it needs in this directory. Data directory has to be ext4 because the packaging code requires file system permissions to work etc. This is the location you specify in https://docs.cloudron.io/storage/#app-data-directory . You can think of this app as part of an app's "state" (just like the database) and it is thus backed up and restored.

                                      • External Directory/Volumes - This location can be any file system. Mostly the app just reads file (docs, music, movies etc) from this. So the permissions don't matter. It is also expected that these directories can be shared across apps. This is similar to the home directory on linux or My Documents on Windows. It's just separate directory that apps have access to. If you uninstall, backup apps, that folder is untouched. For these kind of directories, the file system type is not relevant. It can be anything - sshfs, cifs, ext2 whatever.

                                      jdaviescoatesJ Online
                                      jdaviescoatesJ Online
                                      jdaviescoates
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #67

                                      @girish OK, thanks, that's clearer.

                                      However, some of the music streaming apps etc like Navidrome (which is what I thought I'd use a Hetzner Storage box CIFS for) can have users with different permissions too, so still not sure if that'll be possible? πŸ™‚

                                      Although the way I'd actually want to use it is that only one person (me) will be able to upload music, and all other users will just have read access, so I guess that could work fine? πŸ™‚

                                      I use Cloudron with Gandi & Hetzner

                                      girishG 1 Reply Last reply
                                      0
                                      • jdaviescoatesJ jdaviescoates

                                        @girish OK, thanks, that's clearer.

                                        However, some of the music streaming apps etc like Navidrome (which is what I thought I'd use a Hetzner Storage box CIFS for) can have users with different permissions too, so still not sure if that'll be possible? πŸ™‚

                                        Although the way I'd actually want to use it is that only one person (me) will be able to upload music, and all other users will just have read access, so I guess that could work fine? πŸ™‚

                                        girishG Offline
                                        girishG Offline
                                        girish
                                        Staff
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #68

                                        @jdaviescoates said in What's coming in 6.0 (take 2):

                                        However, some of the music streaming apps etc like Navidrome (which is what I thought I'd use a Hetzner Storage box CIFS for) can have users with different permissions too, so still not sure if that'll be possible?

                                        Yes, definitely possible. App users are entirely different from file system permissions. Without getting too technical, users inside an app are just "virtual users". They just exist inside the app's database.

                                        jdaviescoatesJ 1 Reply Last reply
                                        2
                                        • girishG girish

                                          @jdaviescoates said in What's coming in 6.0 (take 2):

                                          However, some of the music streaming apps etc like Navidrome (which is what I thought I'd use a Hetzner Storage box CIFS for) can have users with different permissions too, so still not sure if that'll be possible?

                                          Yes, definitely possible. App users are entirely different from file system permissions. Without getting too technical, users inside an app are just "virtual users". They just exist inside the app's database.

                                          jdaviescoatesJ Online
                                          jdaviescoatesJ Online
                                          jdaviescoates
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #69

                                          @girish OK!

                                          So maybe I will start uploading my 290GB of music up to my new 500GB Hetzner Storage Box to use like this as soon as 6.0 goes live! πŸ˜„

                                          I use Cloudron with Gandi & Hetzner

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