SimpleLogin (manage email aliases and dynamically reply as the alias!)

[robi]

https://github.com/simple-login/app#self-hosting

[echokos]

Hope we can get eyes on this one. SimpleLogin.io is all set for Docker already and is really an amazing program. Would love to self host it.

[girish]

Cloudron supports email subaddreses which is sorr of related to this. https://docs.cloudron.io/email/#subaddresses-and-tags

[A Former User]

Was aliases not a thing when this was originally posted? I’ve just been making alias emails for any service I don’t trust (like twitch).

[echokos]

@girish - yes, sort of related but SimpleLogin is a wonderful application and would make for a single place to easily create and manage temp or permanent email forwarders.

[humptydumpty]

It's expanding from a simple email alias app to an "online identity protector" with the addition of phone number masking, bank card masking, and a sign in button.

[timconsidine]

@girish I don't think Cloudron aliases cover the same functionality as SimpleLogin aliases.

Cloudron aliases are only possible on domains registered in Cloudron and disclose the domain identity. This is fine for re-routing 'legitimate' mail to appropriate destinations.

SimpleLogin is focussed on privacy and NOT disclosing the destination domain.

SimpleLogin seems a better approach than e.g. Trashmail, whose front-facing domains seem to be widely known and filtered, and it's not smooth to reply from them. I'm not sure how well-recognised or filtered SimpleLogin domain are.

But that's where self-hosting SimpleLogin comes into play. Add your own 'trash' domain to protect legit domains.

The SimpleLogin service is reasonably priced so seems deserving of subscription to support them. But I would still see value in this being self-hostable on cloudron.

[A Former User]

@robi
Please change this issue title from "Simple-Login" to "SimpleLogin" as pointed out by @timconsidine in the duplicate post. Thanks, Robi.

[marcusquinn]

@timconsidine Exactly all of that. Plus, it has browser extensions and mobile apps.

The thing about their domain solution is, you're married to that for life if you want to continue to receive emails from all those using those aliases (good business model).

Self-hosted allows you your own domain, which is as good as you keep renewing that and self-hosting.

If one wanted to also support the open-source, then there's no harm in also paying for an unused subscription.

from me for this on Cloudron.

[timconsidine]

@marcusquinn yes I paid for a subscription as it is worth supporting, and good value.
At that point I sat back but would still be interested in a self-host version.

[manngobaum]

Would be great to have this as Cloudron App.

[privsec]

I use anonaddy, I love the service.

Same concept.

[jdaviescoates]

I just came across Firefox Relay which is Mozilla's free (up to 5 email masks) version of this.

https://relay.firefox.com/
(looks like it's possible to self-host too https://github.com/mozilla/fx-private-relay )

Premium currently only $0.99/mo

Shame you can't use your own domains though.

Here's a nice comparison by SimpleLogin

https://simplelogin.io/blog/vs-firefox-relay/

[humptydumpty]

@jdaviescoates said in SimpleLogin (manage email aliases and dynamically reply as the alias!):

Here's a nice comparison by SimpleLogin

Dependency on third party services

Firefox Relay relies on Amazon SES to receive and forward emails to your mailbox. 

Might be a problem for some of us Mozilla's intentions might be pure but you never know if a bug, hack, or a change in management might expose that info in the future which is why it's best to support projects that steer clear from using big tech' services. Besides, for privacy-oriented folks who self-host open-source software, it feels like being a hypocrite when we use big-tech and closed-source services/apps.

[jdaviescoates]

@humptydumpty said in SimpleLogin (manage email aliases and dynamically reply as the alias!):

@jdaviescoates said in SimpleLogin (manage email aliases and dynamically reply as the alias!):

Here's a nice comparison by SimpleLogin

Dependency on third party services

Firefox Relay relies on Amazon SES to receive and forward emails to your mailbox. 

Might be a problem for some of us Mozilla's intentions might be pure but you never know if a bug, hack, or a change in management might expose that info in the future which is why it's best to support projects that steer clear from using big tech' services. Besides, for privacy-oriented folks who self-host open-source software, it feels like being a hypocrite when we use big-tech and closed-source services/apps.

Yeah, I also spotted:

Firefox Relay relies on Firefox Account for authentication.

[MisterJD]

This app would be fantastic. I already love and use the Apple thing, but something selfhosted and more versatile would be simply great.

[timconsidine]

@MisterJD yes it's great.
I user the hosted version with paid plan, so I add a custom domain and some wilcarding and I can create random on-the-fly addresses like merchant@sl.domain.tld for signups etc, which go to my hidden primary.
I also use Trashmail but SimpleLogin is easier (and cheaper I seem to recall).

[A Former User]

This feature on Cloudron would be outstanding.

@girish How many aliases does Cloudron allow?

[robi]

@bushido there is no limit.

[A Former User]

@robi said in SimpleLogin (manage email aliases and dynamically reply as the alias!):

@bushido there is no limit.

Thanks for your quick reply.

[marcusquinn]

The advantage of packaging Simple Login is that you can then use their browser extension to create randomised or keyworded aliases on the fly when signing up to newsletters etc.

It's similar to the way LanguageTool selfhosted works with their browser extension changing the API key to your self-hosted instance.

Set your self-hosted URL:

And API Key:

Magic. Your email aliases, that you can keep forever without having to keep a subscription running for them to stay working.

[marcusquinn]

Just noticed, they have been acquired by Proton. I'd say that's reassuring for long-term support:

• https://proton.me/

I've looked at comparable apps in this area, and Simple Login does seem to be the best user experience.

[jayonrails]

@girish @nebulon what would it cost to spoonsor this app for Cloudron?

[girish]

This app is sort of like an email server of it's own (and it's own dns setup), requires port 25 to be open etc. So, it's not easy to setup within Cloudron itself. I think for now it's best to run it outside in a separate VPS.

[privsec]

@girish said in SimpleLogin (manage email aliases and dynamically reply as the alias!):

This app is sort of like an email server of it's own (and it's own dns setup), requires port 25 to be open etc. So, it's not easy to setup within Cloudron itself. I think for now it's best to run it outside in a separate VPS.

Is it possible to rebuild the email server implementing these features?

[jayonrails]

@privsec I am totally on that, too.

[girish]

While there is no extension, one can use wildcard aliases - https://docs.cloudron.io/apps/#aliases . So, you can add blah* and then handout blah1231 or whatever you like.

But I guess one would want to track with a label or equivalent of the created aliases and what they were used for. (That's what I think this app does). One can create some strategy like blah-service-one or something like that.

[girish]

Also, I use mail+service@domain.com and this has worked many years now. See https://docs.cloudron.io/email/#subaddresses

Is there any specific benefit to random addresses?

[marcusquinn]

@girish I guess anyone can just strip the +service part from the address quite easily.

I'm trying to think how one would make this work using the same domain but perhaps somehow having different MX records for each server that would look for if an email address is able to receive.

[marcusquinn]

@girish I guess the wildcard solution only works for those receiving emails to a catchall mailbox. Wouldn't work for multiple user's separation of emails on the same domain.

Perhaps there's a way to replicate the Simple Login hooks to work with Cloudron API? That way you get Cloudron mailbox and alias management, and Simple Logins' already developed browser extensions?

[girish]

@marcusquinn the wildcard is aliases. This is different from the catch all feature. You can set wildcard aliases on a mailbox.

[jdaviescoates]

@girish said in SimpleLogin (manage email aliases and dynamically reply as the alias!):

You can set wildcard aliases on a mailbox.

As explained here https://docs.cloudron.io/email/#mail-aliases

[marcusquinn]

OK, so:

john@example.com and jane@example.com are not Cloudron Admins, but their mailboxes are hosting in a Cloudron service — both want to sign up to newsletters and make online purchases, without their email address getting onto mailing lists, and without having the +service part being removed to become their main email address.

What email addresses do John and Jane put into those forms?

[girish]

@marcusquinn you, as the Cloudron admin, would add a wildcard alias for the john@example.com. This alias can be named johnservices*@example.com .

Then, you tell john to use that wildcard alias, however, he wants. johnservices-service1, johnservices-service-2, johnservices-srv-three .. However, he wants. Replies will end in his mailbox.

Also, I don't think simplelogin has multiple users either for a custom domain - https://github.com/simple-login/app/discussions/1359 .

[marcusquinn]

@girish OK, sorta makes sense, so basically the Admin has to setup and explain this feature in onboarding, and disposable aliases are manually created, but only removed on request from user to Admin.

Really the convenience of the browser extension is in making unique non-decypherable aliases on the fly in email inputs, eg, if I open the extension on this website (https://bakadesuyo.com) I get this in the extensions:

Multiple domain options:

Or something totally random:

And I can also delete them in the extensions.

I see what you're saying, and I can cope with that for personal use, and could perhaps document it for client use — if anyone would ever care about that sort of thing with a work email address anyway, because spam is usually IT's problem.

So, just really documenting here to show the differences in delivery and user experience.

Given you have A solution, that probably demotes this option to more of a convenience app, than a whole new feature.

We'll probably get it running some other way though, as my attention span is precious, and protecting that from Inbox time-costs is an ongoing need.

[necrevistonnezr]

@marcusquinn BTW Vaultwarden has similar functionality - though more suitable if you want to use an alias for a login: https://forum.cloudron.io/topic/7144/add-privacy-and-security-using-email-aliases-with-bitwarden

[marcusquinn]

@necrevistonnezr Good spot, I forgot about that. Seems you can't update the Simple Login URL with it though. You can with AnonAddy, so maybe this will work as a solution:

Say doing something like this: