Best privacy chat apps

doodlemania2

yall should also check out Session (getsession.org) it's pretty sweet - a fork of Signal protocol with the backend using the Loki/Oxen network and in the table above, requires zero of the 19 permissions that Signal requires. I personally REALLY enjoy it.

The downsides are obvious here in the usability department. In order to get to chatting with someone, you HAVE to exchange keys. Signal makes that easier cause they generate QR codes but also integrate with your contacts.

One thing to note, however, as a plus to Signal, is they use confidential computing on Azure to hide all the contacts processing, which is a really great use of that particular tech.

marcusquinn

@doodlemania2 I did give Session a try, kinda felt primitive and like persuading anyone to switch from Signal would be at the expense of losing features for marginal additional privacy.

get that the metadata with Signal isn't private, and that's annoying, but the main thing for me is avoiding using Facebook/Google products.

I'm sure Session will continue to evolve, so hopefully they don't lose momentum and have the capability to reach feature parity with the current most popular apps.

ianhyzy

@marcusquinn yeah, a lot of alternatives to signal look neat but fail at being cross platform or easy for normal people to use

? Offline

I've had to ditch Signal. It has been a nightmare to use. Notifications on Android and iOS are both spotty. My mom had missed calls several times because it just never rung for her (I verified this). Also for video calls it occasionally decides speakerphone is not needed, and won't work.

0/10 somehow Element + Matrix is more usable.

robi

The frequent disconnections from Telegram and Signal are problematic.

It's like someone is deliberately disconnecting all sessions they can't intercept. Making it a lot less reliable.

Sometimes video calls are better, and you can always stop video sharing, keeping the voice channel open.

Same with GVoice calls, frequent drops, despite good networking on both sides.

One of the better things for longer lasting voice comms is Team Speak. But the lack of availability of free clients on mobile puts that in the 'only at home' category.

rmdes

I'v been testing https://cwtch.im/ it's quite interesting, since you can host the server home
and join other chats/servers or one-to-one over tor

marcusquinn

@rmdes Nice! Looks like the list here has been updated since I last posted it:

https://www.privacytools.io/#messaging

robi

@rmdes sounds like a good app request?

LoudLemur

@marcusquinn

Session
https://getsession.org
Session will soon support video over Lokinet.

Berty
https://berty.tech/
Berty is based on IPFS (Inter Planetary File System), and near release. Keep an eye on it.

Cwtch
https://cwtch.im/

marcusquinn

@LoudLemur Thanks. Session I like, worth a follow: twitter.com/session_app Anyone can DM me for an ID to connect if you want to test anything.

Video calls will be the game-changer for that, at least if they can have a comparable quality to FaceTime/Zoom, which are currently the best-of-(non-open-source)-breed in my experience.

Berty & Cwtch I need to try, both also sounds very cool.

The original point of this post being "Off-topic", was for non self-hosted, or not being dependent on self-hosting. The kinda thing you could give your folks to use and they'd have a low friction experience, and it would work well enough for them to also like and recommend to friends once they were also onboard. (something I still even struggle to convince people that really ought to trust me on, because lazyness & what's the point inertia is a very real thing targeted by the spyware that has become ubiquitous with "social media" and "big tech".

marcusquinn

Have created a "Cloudron" Group in Session, for both testing, and off-the-record chat (well, as much as all other members have a record). DM me for my Session ID. It's probably safe to post publicly, but no hurry to find out otherwise from haste

marcusquinn

Anyone tried this "Status" app to the above aims? Looks intriguing at least:

jdaviescoates

@marcusquinn while there are few good interesting ideas floating around in the web 3 space, and loads of money sloshing around to help experiment with such ideas, personally I find it mostly to be a big turn off for being a slow, expensive, and environmental nightmare.

? Offline

Oh gosh they incorporate “web3”

marcusquinn

@jdaviescoates Wait until you see how much energy humans consume to do the things the miners are replacing

jdaviescoates

@marcusquinn like what? What are they/ have they replaced. Nothing as far as I'm aware.

A single Bitcoin transaction uses more energy than an average U.S. household uses in 2 months!

I mean, perhaps you're referring to how much banks still invest in fossil fuels? But if you think web3 is going to replace banks any time soon you are wrong

A 10-year old iPhone could process more transactions per second than the entirety of the Bitcoin network it's so insanely slow.

marcusquinn

@jdaviescoates Think that's one for the rest of the internet to debate. Personally, I see the incentives for more progress in energy production, efficiency, distribution and security as a good thing.

jdaviescoates

@marcusquinn said in Best privacy chat apps:

I see the incentives for more progress in energy production, efficiency, distribution and security as a good thing.

OK, but Web 3 does that how?

It's really not very distributed at all and pretty much the whole ecosystem relies on a tiny handful of privately owned and controled entities, just like Web 2

See eg this nice critique by Signal's creator:

https://moxie.org/2022/01/07/web3-first-impressions.html

Also, what are these high energy "things the miners are replacing"?

marcusquinn

Also, what are these high energy "things the miners are replacing"?

Bankers.

jdaviescoates

@marcusquinn said in Best privacy chat apps:

Bankers

Yeah. Thankfully, whilst most banks are still investing in climate catastrophe, not all are.

I do personal banking with Nationwide and business banking with Starling, neither of which invest in any fossil fuel companies nor projects.

https://bank.green is a useful website for checking how much your bank has invested in fossil fuels since the Paris Agreement.

The worst offender in UK/ Europe are Barclay's

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Best privacy chat apps