Cloudron makes it easy to run web apps like WordPress, Nextcloud, GitLab on your server. Find out more or install now.


Skip to content
  • Categories
  • Recent
  • Tags
  • Popular
  • Bookmarks
  • Search
Skins
  • Light
  • Cerulean
  • Cosmo
  • Flatly
  • Journal
  • Litera
  • Lumen
  • Lux
  • Materia
  • Minty
  • Morph
  • Pulse
  • Sandstone
  • Simplex
  • Sketchy
  • Spacelab
  • United
  • Yeti
  • Zephyr
  • Dark
  • Cyborg
  • Darkly
  • Quartz
  • Slate
  • Solar
  • Superhero
  • Vapor

  • Default (No Skin)
  • No Skin
Collapse
Brand Logo

Cloudron Forum

Apps | Demo | Docs | Install
  1. Cloudron Forum
  2. Discuss
  3. Why you should replace NGINX, it's time to upgrade.

Why you should replace NGINX, it's time to upgrade.

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved Discuss
15 Posts 6 Posters 2.4k Views 6 Watching
  • Oldest to Newest
  • Newest to Oldest
  • Most Votes
Reply
  • Reply as topic
Log in to reply
This topic has been deleted. Only users with topic management privileges can see it.
  • murgeroM murgero

    @robi Caddy is awesome. I use it daily - but nginx has been used for so long that it's still worth keeping just for compatibility.

    robiR Offline
    robiR Offline
    robi
    wrote on last edited by
    #5

    @murgero By that standard we might as well go with apache then.

    Conscious tech

    murgeroM 1 Reply Last reply
    0
    • robiR robi

      @murgero By that standard we might as well go with apache then.

      murgeroM Offline
      murgeroM Offline
      murgero
      App Dev
      wrote on last edited by
      #6

      @robi Apache and nginx are still very well maintained and supported - and don't get me wrong, Caddy is really good, probably even better. and really im not even arguing against your point, really, more just putting in my 2 cents.

      Apache and nginx are running a majority of the internet right now. And caddy is NOT a drop in replacement. Millions of software will need to be updated to make that change to Caddy. TBH I don't believe caddy should replace nginx in cloudron but maybe there can be an app for (or an option to switch to ) caddy. It certainly would not be difficult to make.

      --
      https://urgero.org
      ~ Professional Nerd. Freelance Programmer. ~

      1 Reply Last reply
      2
      • robiR robi

        @MooCloud_Matt Sorry that's not a useful comment without more relevant information.

        When was this? V1/V2? What went terrible? What was the issue? What CDN?

        https://caddy.community has plenty of examples of it working with, in front of and behind CDNs.

        I've used it since V1 when needing to expose dirs of files with TLS.

        With Cloudron 8.0 coming, it might be useful to rethink the stack a bit.

        MooCloud_MattM Offline
        MooCloud_MattM Offline
        MooCloud_Matt
        wrote on last edited by
        #7

        @robi
        true,

        so let me give more context.
        Yes, it was Caddy that was used in a beta product by a European CDN provider (I don't know if I can provide the name of it, but I'm sure I can give some results).
        Caddy was highly inconsistent due to the garbage collector in Golang, which is amazingly good but don't scale well if you go outside his tagged usage (microservices and server-related task).
        This causes spike in resource usage from the garbage collector.
        So the positive side of being able to update a config with rest API doesn't compensate for the instability that Caddy has under load.

        You can't compare go to C or C++; they are just faster, memory management is up to you as a developer, and Nginx is amazingly good at it.

        Go is born as a Java alternative, not C for that we have rust that don't have a mature webserver or proxy for what I know to compete with Nginx (openresty), Apache (that means LS too).

        Cloudflare migrates from Nginx to OpenRegisty and now to a proprietary Proxy, but just for some small stuff, main proxy is still OR.

        Should cloudron migrate to Caddy, maybe?

        • list itemZeroSSL is really good and we extensively use it.
        • api config by default is amazing

        But then you still need Nginx for much other stuff like:

        • Webserver PHP-FPM is still better supported in Nginx with better caching.
        • Better support for Nginx from the PHP community. that means more requests in the forum( or our customer care) on how to use plugins for WordPress with Caddy.

        Matteo. R.
        Founder and Tech-Support Manager.
        MooCloud MSP
        Swiss Managed Service Provider

        1 Reply Last reply
        2
        • robiR robi

          @MooCloud_Matt Sorry that's not a useful comment without more relevant information.

          When was this? V1/V2? What went terrible? What was the issue? What CDN?

          https://caddy.community has plenty of examples of it working with, in front of and behind CDNs.

          I've used it since V1 when needing to expose dirs of files with TLS.

          With Cloudron 8.0 coming, it might be useful to rethink the stack a bit.

          MooCloud_MattM Offline
          MooCloud_MattM Offline
          MooCloud_Matt
          wrote on last edited by MooCloud_Matt
          #8

          @robi said in Why you should replace NGINX, it's time to upgrade.:

          With Cloudron 8.0 coming, it might be useful to rethink the stack a bit.

          I'm on the same page for that, but I would not change something that is working well and have stable support.

          Even the performance advantages caddy and HTTP2/Quick could have are nothing compared to other parts of the stack that are not optimized for performance. So the bottleneck is not there.

          Matteo. R.
          Founder and Tech-Support Manager.
          MooCloud MSP
          Swiss Managed Service Provider

          robiR 1 Reply Last reply
          2
          • MooCloud_MattM MooCloud_Matt

            @robi said in Why you should replace NGINX, it's time to upgrade.:

            With Cloudron 8.0 coming, it might be useful to rethink the stack a bit.

            I'm on the same page for that, but I would not change something that is working well and have stable support.

            Even the performance advantages caddy and HTTP2/Quick could have are nothing compared to other parts of the stack that are not optimized for performance. So the bottleneck is not there.

            robiR Offline
            robiR Offline
            robi
            wrote on last edited by
            #9

            @MooCloud_Matt While OpenResty - IS - Nginx at its core, it does a whole lot more. Even Nginx is more than what we use it for, like proxying IMAP/POP3, etc.

            Regardless of what solution is looked at (doesn't have to be caddy), something needs to change so Cloudron is more usable within it's own services as well as others. Looking at it systematically should make the choices clear.

            Discussion here or elsewhere in the open will make it more transparent and richer in diverse ideas.

            Conscious tech

            MooCloud_MattM 1 Reply Last reply
            0
            • robiR robi

              @MooCloud_Matt While OpenResty - IS - Nginx at its core, it does a whole lot more. Even Nginx is more than what we use it for, like proxying IMAP/POP3, etc.

              Regardless of what solution is looked at (doesn't have to be caddy), something needs to change so Cloudron is more usable within it's own services as well as others. Looking at it systematically should make the choices clear.

              Discussion here or elsewhere in the open will make it more transparent and richer in diverse ideas.

              MooCloud_MattM Offline
              MooCloud_MattM Offline
              MooCloud_Matt
              wrote on last edited by
              #10

              @robi
              for now, the limitation is related to what you can customize inside your cloudronmanifest.

              Nginx, caddy, or any other stack is still bottleneck (with good and bad sides) by the cloudronmanifest.

              Matteo. R.
              Founder and Tech-Support Manager.
              MooCloud MSP
              Swiss Managed Service Provider

              robiR 1 Reply Last reply
              0
              • MooCloud_MattM MooCloud_Matt

                @robi
                for now, the limitation is related to what you can customize inside your cloudronmanifest.

                Nginx, caddy, or any other stack is still bottleneck (with good and bad sides) by the cloudronmanifest.

                robiR Offline
                robiR Offline
                robi
                wrote on last edited by robi
                #11

                @MooCloud_Matt said in Why you should replace NGINX, it's time to upgrade.:

                for now, the limitation is related to what you can customize inside your cloudronmanifest.

                Great, can you expand on that? What is the limitation? What would you like to see? How would we go about making that happen?

                Conscious tech

                MooCloud_MattM 1 Reply Last reply
                0
                • robiR robi

                  @MooCloud_Matt said in Why you should replace NGINX, it's time to upgrade.:

                  for now, the limitation is related to what you can customize inside your cloudronmanifest.

                  Great, can you expand on that? What is the limitation? What would you like to see? How would we go about making that happen?

                  MooCloud_MattM Offline
                  MooCloud_MattM Offline
                  MooCloud_Matt
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #12

                  @robi
                  Such a big question, I already provided some of our ideas to the cloudron team, and we will see the future limits as soon as Cloudron moves to a more open AppStore.

                  TLDR:
                  With the support for 3°party apps, developers will now containerize and maintain their apps by themselves, requiring less maintenance from the cloudron core team.
                  At that point with an open ecosystem we can expect deep optimization.

                  Matteo. R.
                  Founder and Tech-Support Manager.
                  MooCloud MSP
                  Swiss Managed Service Provider

                  1 Reply Last reply
                  2
                  • girishG Offline
                    girishG Offline
                    girish
                    Staff
                    wrote on last edited by girish
                    #13

                    Most tech stack decisions (by us, atleast) are not made based solely on technical details. The developer mindshare plays a big role. nginx/apache are known by practically anyone and problems are just easier to solve. Given this, one has to hit some unsurmountable technical problems before considering a switch. We are yet to hit any problems with nginx (for almost a decade now...).

                    Same applies for things like docker, nodejs, angular etc. I am sure there's things out there which are better these days but everyone knows these tools and any problems one hits are solvable. Unless these things go unmaintained or have severe technical issues, it's hard to justify replacing them.

                    Of course, such articles are still useful, because if one starts a project from scratch maybe we make different choices.

                    1 Reply Last reply
                    3
                    • scookeS Offline
                      scookeS Offline
                      scooke
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #14

                      Speaking as a middle-of-the-road hobbyist, I've managed to figure out most Apache or NGINX problems, related to certs or virtual hosts, but caddy.... the one time I tried it out, because it was touted as a simple, easy to use, web host solution, man, I could not get more than one domain working. The tuts at the time (2 years ago thereabouts), and which ever forum I asked on, we just couldn't get that thing to work. I haven't bothered since, since the two alternatives really do just work.

                      A life lived in fear is a life half-lived

                      1 Reply Last reply
                      3
                      • T Offline
                        T Offline
                        taowang
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #15

                        Just tried out Caddy today! It is extremely easy!!!

                        I deployed Flowise with only two lines of caddyfile code.

                        flowise.riverhill.ai {
                            # Use Cloudflare SSL certificates
                            tls /etc/caddy/certs/cert.pem /etc/caddy/certs/key.pem
                        
                            # Reverse proxy to Flowise
                            reverse_proxy localhost:3000
                        }
                        

                        This really opened a whole new world for me!
                        I also tried Traefik, but I had to ask ChatGPT to add labels for me.
                        I don't really understand how those lables work...

                        This is a great tutorial. Worth checking out.

                        1 Reply Last reply
                        1
                        Reply
                        • Reply as topic
                        Log in to reply
                        • Oldest to Newest
                        • Newest to Oldest
                        • Most Votes


                        • Login

                        • Don't have an account? Register

                        • Login or register to search.
                        • First post
                          Last post
                        0
                        • Categories
                        • Recent
                        • Tags
                        • Popular
                        • Bookmarks
                        • Search