Cloudron Forum

@NCKNE V Interesting. Great share. Thanks you!

@LoudLemur Thanks. I'm using Shottr, and just found the resize x0.5 option, so that seems to work.

@NCKNE Thanks. Not seen that before. I'm not a fan of the WebUI interface, but it it's possible, it is highly valuable! Thanks for the pointer, I'll give it a try.

@jdaviescoates Tired, impatient, and time-sensitive. Sorry!

If you get anything from me here it is always to save time, our most precious resources, and I have a lot less of it left them most.

Doubly impatient when I have to resize screenshots up upload them to this NodeBB setup, but here we are...

• https://www.librechat.ai/docs/features/agents
• https://www.librechat.ai/docs/features/agents#sharing-and-permissions

It's all there in the docs.

This is an "Agent" (what Poe.com calls a "App". You only have to use Poe.com for 30 seconds to get what they are.)

Create these, and have a server-hosted (Cloudron-hosted) instance of LibreChat, and now your pre-trained "Agents" (in LibreChat lingo), can be shared.

This feature just doesn't exist in OpenWebUI, and I can't see it coming any time soon.

The difference to me with having LibreChat on Cloudron is probably $100/month plus compared to doing the same with Poe.com. Plus not having my knowledge training setups locked up in someone else's SaaS.

Plus, frickin hours, and hours, and hours of long-hand wasted time teaching a team how to all setup the same pre-trained chat, and keep updating it as it is refined — when this is an already a solved problem but LibreChat Agents and sharing those Agents among users on the same server. Not conversations. Agents. AKA Apps in Poe.com language.

With the bridge between problem and solution apparently being persuasion that there is a LOT more value to this in LibreChat, and this specific highly valuable time, money and settings-saving thing value is not in OpenWebUI.

If you don't work with a team, you probably don't need it.

If you work with a team, and are going to be using AI, then this has a lot of value that I'm not seeing anywhere else.

That's the use-case and value-proposition.

Is there anyone left in this thread that still doesn't get it?

@jdaviescoates Yeah. I can see why people look at the basics of it being a chat app, and think they compare.

There's so many man-hours that are saved with collaborative tools.

When you setup a collaborative tool on Poe.com, you are locking that entire team into it a subscription to it for life to continue to use.

If we had the same with LibreChat on Cloudron, all those processes are now owned and self-hosted, with no per-user pricing, to utilise and get value from.

I don't doubt WebUI is useful, and great it already packaged.

We just missed out on having the collaborative LibreChat, so I have to make a value case for it, so it's not dismissed as similar enough to not be a priority.

If collaboration had no value, I can use LibreChat, locally — but the ability to share identical, maintained, pre-trained knowledge apps/agents with LibreChat is so damn valuable if you work with a team.

The biggest overhead with all teamwork is "explaining". Pre-trained LibreChat agents mostly eliminate that explaining and updating everyone overhead, and gives an interface to consistent input/output for all users.

AI is notoriously inconsistent and lacking in recent or private knowledge.

LibreChat solves all of this, when hosted on a server for multiple users to share.

@micmc For me the big thing is teamwork with LibreChat.

Poe.com is the best comparable I know it.

@firmansi Yeah, they might be things "better", and there might be things with WebUI that are "good enough".

The reason for LibreChat is specifically for collaboration.

I use Cloudron as a collaboration platform among many users for different things, so I value collaborative tools that save time and repeat conversations or effort.

LibreChat solves that for me, and it would be nicer to have it self-hosted with Cloudron, than to be setting up a separate small server just for this one app, and then all the maintenance involved in that.

There's a need, problem, and solution. We don't need to re-invent anything. Just an ability to use each thing for it's unique advantages.

@NCKNE Can you now invite other private users to use your private task-specific knowledge-primed with WebUI?

From what I have seen:

If you work alone. I'm sure WebUI is fine.

If you work as a team. LibreChat has a very, very valuable feature that I've not see existing or planned for WebUI.

I expect the difficulty in seeing the difference is those that don't work as a team on things, so will never have the need to share what LibreChat calls "agents".

Those working as a team just don't have a team-tool to collaborate with.

AI chat requires a ton of refinement for specific purposes.

If you want basic Q&A AI chat, use anything.

If you need a specific type and style of output, based on additional knowledge input, and for the output to be consistent across a team, the choices I know of are Poe.com with those fees, or LibreChat hosted on a server.

@BrutalBirdie Yup. Quite a few examples of Nani un-gagged: https://x.com/search?q=nani__ooo&src=typed_query

You might also like the uncensored version: https://nani.ooo/chat

@girish Sorry. Missed point. Although, I understand the confusion, but only if you have not used Poe.com or similar to understand what Apps are in this context.

I don't mean share a conversation. They all do that.

I mean share the entire setup across multiple users.

Let's say you want to create AI chatapp that has all the knowledge of the latest Cloudron documentation already loaded up in it, for all the users on your shared chat platform to then use in getting better AI answers to questions. LibreChat can do that. They call it "Agents" in the interface.

Similar concept to Poe.com apps. You can load them up with tons of recent knowledge that is additional to the AI model it is connecting to.

Update once, and all users of that "App" are now chatting with the latest additional knowledge.

Sharing a chat from the base model with no specific knowledge is just not the same thing.

@stevespaw Also agreed!

@stevespaw Agreed!

@girish You can download and run a local version of LibreChat to see the difference. However, a local version cannot be shared.

Here's the problem with all AI, it's "generic", and unreliable.

So you need need extremely "specific" pre-prompts to get consistent quality outputs.

Some people call this a Standard Operating Procedure (SOP). Essential in teamwork, and onboarding new people to existing workflows and processes.

OK, so you can Q&A your AI locally. Now you want to work with another person to all get consistent outputs from similar inputs. What do you do?

Message back and forth all the pre-prompts and configurations that each of you are using, iterating, and adapting? No-one has the bandwidth for that.

This is why we have anything online, to de-duplicate effort and give consistency of knowledge.

If you have a hosted version of LibreChat, where you create task-specific AI apps, your team can share the use of it, consistently.

To me, Cloudron is for collaboration.

Open Web UI is, at this time, mostly an individual tool.

If you try Poe.com, you should get the concept of AP "apps" that are purpose-specific, and refined for consistent quality output.

LibreChat offers this, therefore is more valuable and useful to a team.

Open Web UI is, at this time, is just not offering anywhere near the same. It's interesting, but just not offering much that a local app can't do.

LibreChat is designed specifically for collaboration.

• https://www.trae.ai/

Looks interesting, and seems to be free.

@girish What kinda position in the queue are we talking for LibreChat?

Right now, it's the single most useful, and missing, app for my collaboration toolkit.

The local version is great, but it's the collaboration I'm missing, where a self-hosted version of this would make it so much easier to share and maintain task-specific prompts and agents among a team.

No GPUs needed. It's just by far the best interface to all the many AI APIs, to bring some order back to the multi-modal madness of using each of their interfaces separately and without easy sharing.

@ctrl Fair enough. I still think people need a solid FOSS Notion alt, so it's just to fill that gap in a FOSS team's tooklit.

@timconsidine Nice find! Interesting readme, too, regarding Google's Gmail and Gcal link-click tracking!

https://x.com/AFFiNEOfficial/status/1877169997434192277

@girish & @nebulon should have a podcast. SO much knowledge to share!