Cloudron post install questions

[girish]

@ejarvis no, there should be some other error. You can also do systemctl restart box and it should give some docker error. Otherwise, if you contact us on support@cloudron.io, i can take a look.

[ejarvis]

@girish Let me do a restart and will see what I can see. If that fails, will contact you at that address.

[ejarvis]

@girish Well, the result is interesting:

==== AUTHENTICATING FOR org.freedesktop.systemd1.manage-units ===
Authentication is required to restart 'box.service'.
Authenticating as: Edwin Jarvis (jarvis)
Password:
==== AUTHENTICATION COMPLETE ===

Ummm...

[BrutalBirdie]

@ejarvis
Did you install Cloudron on your Ubuntu Desktop Computer?
It looks like you are running as user jarvis who does not have permission to execute that command.
So you should use sudo systemctl restart box.service

But please answer first on what systems you installed Cloudron.
Like very specific, tell us all.

[subven]

@ejarvis said in Cloudron post install questions:

==== AUTHENTICATING FOR org.freedesktop.systemd1.manage-units ===
~~
Authenticating as: Edwin Jarvis (jarvis)

Looks like CentOS Desktop to me.

@ejarvis please post the output of cat /etc/*-release If you're not on Ubuntu 20.04 or 22.04 we won't help you any further and I would advice you to follow the Cloudron installation docs.

[ejarvis]

@subven said in Cloudron post install questions:

@ejarvis said in Cloudron post install questions:

==== AUTHENTICATING FOR org.freedesktop.systemd1.manage-units ===
~~
Authenticating as: Edwin Jarvis (jarvis)

Looks like CentOS Desktop to me.

@ejarvis please post the output of cat /etc/*-release If you're not on Ubuntu 20.04 or 22.04 we won't help you any further and I would advice you to follow the Cloudron installation docs.

Umm... no?

NAME="Ubuntu"
VERSION="20.04.5 LTS (Focal Fossa)"
ID=ubuntu
ID_LIKE=debian
PRETTY_NAME="Ubuntu 20.04.5 LTS"
VERSION_ID="20.04"
HOME_URL="https://www.ubuntu.com/"
SUPPORT_URL="https://help.ubuntu.com/"
BUG_REPORT_URL="https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/"
PRIVACY_POLICY_URL="https://www.ubuntu.com/legal/terms-and-policies/privacy-policy"
VERSION_CODENAME=focal
UBUNTU_CODENAME=focal

I installed a minimal XFCE4 desktop environment so that I could VNC into the server as needed.

Do you think this is part of the issue?

[ejarvis]

@subven said in Cloudron post install questions:
If you're not on Ubuntu 20.04 or 22.04 we won't help you any further and I would advice you to follow the Cloudron installation docs.

This statement bothers me, since the person that was helping me was directly from the source, and you haven't helped at all yet?

For what it's worth, I did follow the cloudron install docs that you linked. Prior to that, the server has been running on that limited desktop environment.

If I need to nuke it all and do it again, it's not that much of a hassle.

EDIT: Nuking it now.

[ejarvis]

@subven said in Cloudron post install questions:

@ejarvis said in Cloudron post install questions:

==== AUTHENTICATING FOR org.freedesktop.systemd1.manage-units ===
~~
Authenticating as: Edwin Jarvis (jarvis)

Looks like CentOS Desktop to me.

@ejarvis please post the output of cat /etc/*-release If you're not on Ubuntu 20.04 or 22.04 we won't help you any further and I would advice you to follow the Cloudron installation docs.

Also:

ls -l /usr/share/xsessions
total 12
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 303 Mar 26 2020 ubuntu.desktop
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 6273 Mar 30 2020 xfce.desktop

[ejarvis]

@BrutalBirdie said in Cloudron post install questions:

@ejarvis
Did you install Cloudron on your Ubuntu Desktop Computer?
It looks like you are running as user jarvis who does not have permission to execute that command.
So you should use sudo systemctl restart box.service

But please answer first on what systems you installed Cloudron.
Like very specific, tell us all.

I do notice that there are two users listed in the server now, my own as it was set up when I installed the server, and the Cloudron account that I assume was installed with their script.

The 'jarvis' account is root.

[ejarvis]

Looking around inside the application, going to services, I can see that neither the MySQL nor PostgreSQL are running.

PostgreSQL at least shows an amber indicator like it's trying to load. Could this also contribute?

[BrutalBirdie]

@ejarvis said in Cloudron post install questions:

I installed a minimal XFCE4 desktop environment so that I could VNC into the server as needed.

I am a bit confused with the as needed statement.
You only need a fresh Ubuntu 20.04 / 22.04 server install with ssh access to run the Cloudron install commands.
It's generally not advised to install other software alongside Cloudron because it can lead to many problems.

The fastest and easiest way to come to a working state would be a fresh Ubuntu 20/22 install, ssh into root or the sudo user and then (if sudo switch to root) follow the install.

@ejarvis said in Cloudron post install questions:

The 'jarvis' account is root.

What? No? root is root. . . jarvis might be a sudoer?

The Cloudron install needs to be run with root / sudo.
Amazingly this is not mentioned anywhere @staff I never noticed that until now.

https://docs.cloudron.io/installation/

[subven]

I also think there should be a warning within the docs to not apt update/upgrade or install other packages after the Cloudron installation. It seems not clear enough that Cloudron is taking over the server and handles all that stuff to some users and warning at the SSH welcome banner is likely to be overlooked.

[girish]

@BrutalBirdie said in Cloudron post install questions:

The Cloudron install needs to be run with root / sudo.
Amazingly this is not mentioned anywhere @staff I never noticed that until now.

The setup script errors out that you have to run as sudo.

[ejarvis]

@BrutalBirdie said in Cloudron post install questions:

@ejarvis said in Cloudron post install questions:

I installed a minimal XFCE4 desktop environment so that I could VNC into the server as needed.

I am a bit confused with the as needed statement.
You only need a fresh Ubuntu 20.04 / 22.04 server install with ssh access to run the Cloudron install commands.
It's generally not advised to install other software alongside Cloudron because it can lead to many problems.

The fastest and easiest way to come to a working state would be a fresh Ubuntu 20/22 install, ssh into root or the sudo user and then (if sudo switch to root) follow the install.

@ejarvis said in Cloudron post install questions:

The 'jarvis' account is root.

What? No? root is root. . . jarvis might be a sudoer?

The Cloudron install needs to be run with root / sudo.
Amazingly this is not mentioned anywhere @staff I never noticed that until now.

https://docs.cloudron.io/installation/

You're correct, 'jarvis' is a sudoer and not root, I misspoke.

Before I decided to give Cloudron a try, I added VNC as a means to access it without really giving it another thought. Most, if not all, of our other machines use VNC as a means to support the user when they experience an issue in real-time.

Re-reading what everyone has posted thus far, does lean to the concept that in doing that, could have inadvertently caused some issues.

However, if there is a way to enter a 'safe mode' for the lack of another, more proper phase, we could remove the app that's 'stuck' and try to add it again?

Does such a phase exist? Could it, if it doesn't?

[ejarvis]

@subven said in Cloudron post install questions:

I also think there should be a warning within the docs to not apt update/upgrade or install other packages after the Cloudron installation. It seems not clear enough that Cloudron is taking over the server and handles all that stuff to some users and warning at the SSH welcome banner is likely to be overlooked.

That's a fair point.

Would it still be an issue if those packages were completely removed from the server?

[ejarvis]

@girish said in Cloudron post install questions:

@BrutalBirdie said in Cloudron post install questions:

The Cloudron install needs to be run with root / sudo.
Amazingly this is not mentioned anywhere @staff I never noticed that until now.

The setup script errors out that you have to run as sudo.

I vaguely remember elevating with sudo on the installation script, and since it was as extensive as it was, I did other things and let it do its job.

Since I saw somewhere that every night the Cloudron service will handle all updates and such, and with part of the documentation stating that we should 'un-hold' some of the updates that were previously on-hold, I haven't checked yet to see if it helped or hindered yet. Will post more if I see things that I'm not sure how to deal with.

In the meantime, if I reinstalled the OS from a live ISO, will the installation script known to connect with my current account, or do I have to remove everything and start over completely from scratch?

[subven]

@ejarvis said in Cloudron post install questions:

or do I have to remove everything and start over completely from scratch?

The easiest way is to setup a fresh new server, Install Cloudron and during initial setup, restore from a backup. Be sure to install the same Cloudron version your current server is on. I'm not sure if you also need the same OS version (Ubuntu 20.04 in your case) but I would advice to stick with it as you can upgrade later.

@ejarvis said in Cloudron post install questions:

Would it still be an issue if those packages were completely removed from the server?

Not sure what is the best way to fix a half broken Cloudron installation. AFAIK Cloudron expects explicit apt package versions and installing other packages can easy mess with that. While in theory it is possible, I would avoid it and start with a clean OS as it will 100% work.

@ejarvis said in Cloudron post install questions:

I added VNC as a means to access it without really giving it another thought

I think VNC to get basic terminal access should not be the problem. Installing a desktop enviroment however is far more complex in terms of related packages. If you install VNC before Cloudron, I think you should be fine as the setup script will pick the right packages anyway. EDIT: Okay so I digged into the topic and VNC seems to require a DE installed (even for a terminal session) at least if it runs on OS level.

I haven't found anything here in the forums about how others solve that if they don't have VNC from their hoster.

[ejarvis]

@subven said in Cloudron post install questions:

@ejarvis said in Cloudron post install questions:

or do I have to remove everything and start over completely from scratch?

The easiest way is to setup a fresh new server, Install Cloudron and during initial setup, restore from a backup. Be sure to install the same Cloudron version your current server is on. I'm not sure if you also need the same OS version (Ubuntu 20.04 in your case) but I would advice to stick with it as you can upgrade later.

@ejarvis said in Cloudron post install questions:

Would it still be an issue if those packages were completely removed from the server?

Not sure what is the best way to fix a half broken Cloudron installation. AFAIK Cloudron expects explicit apt package versions and installing other packages can easy mess with that. While in theory it is possible, I would avoid it and start with a clean OS as it will 100% work.

@ejarvis said in Cloudron post install questions:

I added VNC as a means to access it without really giving it another thought

I think VNC to get basic terminal access should not be the problem. Installing a desktop enviroment however is far more complex in terms of related packages. If you install VNC before Cloudron, I think you should be fine as the setup script will pick the right packages anyway. EDIT: Okay so I digged into the topic and VNC seems to require a DE installed (even for a terminal session) at least if it runs on OS level.

I haven't found anything here in the forums about how others solve that if they don't have VNC from their hoster.

It absolutely does, which was why I had installed a minimal DE of XFCE4.

I think that I am going to have to start over and see if (now that I know that Cloudron requires an unaltered installation of Ubuntu Server) that lets me install the app that I wanted to deploy.

[girish]

@ejarvis yes, don't install ubuntu desktop and such. Maybe installing some minor tools here and there is OK, but bringing in a whole bunch of other packages is completely untested territory.

[subven]

@girish do you have a solution to install VNC on a Cloudron host?