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  3. BigBlueButton - web conferencing system for on-line learning

BigBlueButton - web conferencing system for on-line learning

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    • nebulonN nebulon

      For the email address, we use admin@server.local in such a case. Hopefully it is possible to change this later by the user, just like the pre-setup password?

      BrutalBirdieB Online
      BrutalBirdieB Online
      BrutalBirdie
      Partner
      wrote on last edited by
      #23

      @nebulon said in BigBlueButton - web conferencing system for on-line learning:

      For the email address, we use admin@server.local in such a case. Hopefully it is possible to change this later by the user, just like the pre-setup password?

      Yes e-mail and password can be changed.
      And I will use admin@server.local.

      Thanks for the input.

      Like my work? Consider donating a drink. Cheers!

      BrutalBirdieB 1 Reply Last reply
      2
      • BrutalBirdieB BrutalBirdie

        @nebulon said in BigBlueButton - web conferencing system for on-line learning:

        For the email address, we use admin@server.local in such a case. Hopefully it is possible to change this later by the user, just like the pre-setup password?

        Yes e-mail and password can be changed.
        And I will use admin@server.local.

        Thanks for the input.

        BrutalBirdieB Online
        BrutalBirdieB Online
        BrutalBirdie
        Partner
        wrote on last edited by
        #24

        @nebulon Changes pushed.

        Like my work? Consider donating a drink. Cheers!

        1 Reply Last reply
        3
        • BrutalBirdieB BrutalBirdie
          I'm assuming you're using BigBlueButton 2.3-alpha-2 as the basis for this?
          

          @jdaviescoates the Greenlight App is just the front end for BigBlueButton.
          As @luckow mentioned BBB can be installed anywhere and Greenlight is just the front end which connects to a specific BBB instance or cluster to provide a UI etc.

          jdaviescoatesJ Offline
          jdaviescoatesJ Offline
          jdaviescoates
          wrote on last edited by
          #25

          @BrutalBirdie said in BigBlueButton - web conferencing system for on-line learning:

          @jdaviescoates the Greenlight App is just the front end for BigBlueButton.
          As @luckow mentioned BBB can be installed anywhere and Greenlight is just the front end which connects to a specific BBB instance or cluster to provide a UI etc.

          Ah, yes. I actually realised Greenlight is just a front end because it's what we as the front end for the https://meet.coop BBB server.

          I was just secretly hoping that because you'd posted about it in this thread about BBB itself, you were working on a package that included BBB itself too! 🙂

          I use Cloudron with Gandi & Hetzner

          1 Reply Last reply
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          • BrutalBirdieB Online
            BrutalBirdieB Online
            BrutalBirdie
            Partner
            wrote on last edited by
            #26

            Hey @luckow can you share your insights about BBB as App in Cloudron?

            Referring to this conversation:

            @jdaviescoates said in Cloudron 5.6.2:

            @BrutalBirdie said in Cloudron 5.6.2:

            I remember a conversation about BBB as App not being a good idea.

            It could possibly be that BBB recommends bare metal servers because freeswitch (which it depends on) works best like that?

            https://docs.bigbluebutton.org/2.2/install.html#minimum-server-requirements

            But at the same time I have also heard of people using BBB on a VPS without any real issue.

            I'd definitely love to have a BBB app!

            And I think that once 6.0 with it's unified dashboard (whatever that exactly turns out to be) is out it'll also be easier to have a whole separate VPS dedicated to just Cloudron + BBB, which would help too I imagine.

            Like my work? Consider donating a drink. Cheers!

            1 Reply Last reply
            1
            • C Offline
              C Offline
              cyberfreakde
              wrote on last edited by cyberfreakde
              #27

              Is the development still going on? I host my church meetings in bbb so I need it like 3 times a week. I currently have a extra server for that which costs a lot. Would be nice to have it in Cloudron directly 🙂

              I found a container directly from BBB https://hub.docker.com/r/bigbluebutton/bigbluebutton
              Although they say not suitable for production use, I would still love it use it. Did someone try it? I can't get it to run on docker.

              jdaviescoatesJ 1 Reply Last reply
              1
              • C cyberfreakde

                Is the development still going on? I host my church meetings in bbb so I need it like 3 times a week. I currently have a extra server for that which costs a lot. Would be nice to have it in Cloudron directly 🙂

                I found a container directly from BBB https://hub.docker.com/r/bigbluebutton/bigbluebutton
                Although they say not suitable for production use, I would still love it use it. Did someone try it? I can't get it to run on docker.

                jdaviescoatesJ Offline
                jdaviescoatesJ Offline
                jdaviescoates
                wrote on last edited by
                #28

                @cyberfreakde I don't think anyone has started to package BBB for Cloudron yet as there isn't a stable BBB release that runs on Ubuntu 18.04 yet...

                I use Cloudron with Gandi & Hetzner

                C 1 Reply Last reply
                0
                • jdaviescoatesJ jdaviescoates

                  @cyberfreakde I don't think anyone has started to package BBB for Cloudron yet as there isn't a stable BBB release that runs on Ubuntu 18.04 yet...

                  C Offline
                  C Offline
                  cyberfreakde
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #29

                  @jdaviescoates But if it is a docker container? I think it doesn't matter.

                  jdaviescoatesJ 1 Reply Last reply
                  0
                  • jdaviescoatesJ Offline
                    jdaviescoatesJ Offline
                    jdaviescoates
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #30

                    2.3-alpha-4 is out:

                    https://github.com/bigbluebutton/bigbluebutton/releases/tag/v2.3-alpha-4

                    I use Cloudron with Gandi & Hetzner

                    1 Reply Last reply
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                    • C cyberfreakde

                      @jdaviescoates But if it is a docker container? I think it doesn't matter.

                      jdaviescoatesJ Offline
                      jdaviescoatesJ Offline
                      jdaviescoates
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #31

                      @cyberfreakde said in BigBlueButton - web conferencing system for on-line learning:

                      I think it doesn't matter.

                      I think it probably does matter, otherwise @staff likely would've started trying to package BBB already (rather than waiting for a stable version that runs on 18.04)

                      I use Cloudron with Gandi & Hetzner

                      1 Reply Last reply
                      0
                      • girishG Offline
                        girishG Offline
                        girish
                        Staff
                        wrote on last edited by girish
                        #32

                        Technically speaking, @cyberfreakde is correct. It doesn't matter because container can even contain centos. But to keep our maintenance burden low, we only use Ubuntu 18 in containers. Mentally, this is the equivalent of having to maintain app packages for different distributions.

                        robiR 1 Reply Last reply
                        2
                        • girishG girish

                          Technically speaking, @cyberfreakde is correct. It doesn't matter because container can even contain centos. But to keep our maintenance burden low, we only use Ubuntu 18 in containers. Mentally, this is the equivalent of having to maintain app packages for different distributions.

                          robiR Offline
                          robiR Offline
                          robi
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #33

                          @girish bbb-install.sh supports installing BigBlueButton 2.3 and coturn on Ubuntu 18.04.

                          Conscious tech

                          BrutalBirdieB 1 Reply Last reply
                          1
                          • robiR robi

                            @girish bbb-install.sh supports installing BigBlueButton 2.3 and coturn on Ubuntu 18.04.

                            BrutalBirdieB Online
                            BrutalBirdieB Online
                            BrutalBirdie
                            Partner
                            wrote on last edited by BrutalBirdie
                            #34

                            @robi said in BigBlueButton - web conferencing system for on-line learning:

                            @girish bbb-install.sh supports installing BigBlueButton 2.3 and coturn on Ubuntu 18.04.

                            Yes but 2.3 is not stable.

                            TL;DR
                            It's not time yet. ~ Sound warning!

                            I also talked to Fred Dixon some weeks before last Christmas about the state of 2.3.

                            Here a quote from him, which I gather from my memory (all statements without guarantee):

                            We will not give a release date because we only ship a functional product and don't work with due dates.
                            This only sets false expectations and leads to bad code.

                            I can share this 2.3-draft where you could get some information about current state of 2.3.


                            Lets talk BBB and turnserver.

                            There is a turn addon default by Cloudron.
                            Problem is, its a docker container cloudron/turn:1.1.0 running on port:

                            listening-port=3478
                            tls-listening-port=5349
                            

                            This turnserver is kinda useless.
                            In short terms, a app is needed for turn, so the turn can listen to port 80/443.
                            Why?
                            Company / School with a firewall.
                            Only Ports 80,443,22,993,587 outbound is allowed. (Everything else blocked).
                            The turn server should now act like as a MITM (big empasis - like a) so this client can use webRTC via turn.
                            But since it's running on port 5349/3478 its useless.

                            afaik girish and nebulon are aware of this but it's not a big priority right now. (Which I fully support)
                            Also BBB takes a lot of resources. For running small sessions 2-5 People or even 10 it could work out.
                            But since BBB is running alongside other Apps this could lead to quite a problem if to many people turn on their webcam.

                            Like my work? Consider donating a drink. Cheers!

                            girishG 1 Reply Last reply
                            2
                            • BrutalBirdieB BrutalBirdie

                              @robi said in BigBlueButton - web conferencing system for on-line learning:

                              @girish bbb-install.sh supports installing BigBlueButton 2.3 and coturn on Ubuntu 18.04.

                              Yes but 2.3 is not stable.

                              TL;DR
                              It's not time yet. ~ Sound warning!

                              I also talked to Fred Dixon some weeks before last Christmas about the state of 2.3.

                              Here a quote from him, which I gather from my memory (all statements without guarantee):

                              We will not give a release date because we only ship a functional product and don't work with due dates.
                              This only sets false expectations and leads to bad code.

                              I can share this 2.3-draft where you could get some information about current state of 2.3.


                              Lets talk BBB and turnserver.

                              There is a turn addon default by Cloudron.
                              Problem is, its a docker container cloudron/turn:1.1.0 running on port:

                              listening-port=3478
                              tls-listening-port=5349
                              

                              This turnserver is kinda useless.
                              In short terms, a app is needed for turn, so the turn can listen to port 80/443.
                              Why?
                              Company / School with a firewall.
                              Only Ports 80,443,22,993,587 outbound is allowed. (Everything else blocked).
                              The turn server should now act like as a MITM (big empasis - like a) so this client can use webRTC via turn.
                              But since it's running on port 5349/3478 its useless.

                              afaik girish and nebulon are aware of this but it's not a big priority right now. (Which I fully support)
                              Also BBB takes a lot of resources. For running small sessions 2-5 People or even 10 it could work out.
                              But since BBB is running alongside other Apps this could lead to quite a problem if to many people turn on their webcam.

                              girishG Offline
                              girishG Offline
                              girish
                              Staff
                              wrote on last edited by girish
                              #35

                              @brutalbirdie said in BigBlueButton - web conferencing system for on-line learning:

                              afaik girish and nebulon are aware of this but it's not a big priority right now. (Which I fully support)

                              Actually, I am just fixing this for 6.1. I am trying out https://jitsi.github.io/handbook/docs/devops-guide/turn and hopefully that works. The main motivation for us is to move to using kopano meet internally and I suspect maybe this use of different port is what is causing many issues (which have been reported on this fourm). I hope the config there works because https://github.com/coturn/coturn/issues/43 was initially closed stating it was not possible (i.e turn requires a dedicated server to run on 443!)

                              doodlemania2D jdaviescoatesJ 2 Replies Last reply
                              4
                              • girishG girish

                                @brutalbirdie said in BigBlueButton - web conferencing system for on-line learning:

                                afaik girish and nebulon are aware of this but it's not a big priority right now. (Which I fully support)

                                Actually, I am just fixing this for 6.1. I am trying out https://jitsi.github.io/handbook/docs/devops-guide/turn and hopefully that works. The main motivation for us is to move to using kopano meet internally and I suspect maybe this use of different port is what is causing many issues (which have been reported on this fourm). I hope the config there works because https://github.com/coturn/coturn/issues/43 was initially closed stating it was not possible (i.e turn requires a dedicated server to run on 443!)

                                doodlemania2D Offline
                                doodlemania2D Offline
                                doodlemania2
                                App Dev
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #36

                                @girish That might also help nextcloud talk high perf backend too.

                                BrutalBirdieB 1 Reply Last reply
                                1
                                • doodlemania2D doodlemania2

                                  @girish That might also help nextcloud talk high perf backend too.

                                  BrutalBirdieB Online
                                  BrutalBirdieB Online
                                  BrutalBirdie
                                  Partner
                                  wrote on last edited by BrutalBirdie
                                  #37

                                  @doodlemania2 ARG I think I read something about nextcloud talk not support turnservers with TLS?

                                  "(D)TLS is currently not supported by Nextcloud Talk and does not have any real security benefit anyway. For more details see the changelog below." -- https://help.nextcloud.com/t/howto-setup-nextcloud-talk-with-turn-server/30794/93703

                                  So be aware of this.

                                  Like my work? Consider donating a drink. Cheers!

                                  1 Reply Last reply
                                  1
                                  • robiR Offline
                                    robiR Offline
                                    robi
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #38

                                    What we really need then is a TURN server integrated with Nginx.

                                    Doing a quick search I haven't found an extension for Nginx, but then I thought why not front the TURN server we have with Nginx as a proxy load balancer which can include port 80/443 and UDP ports.

                                    This post goes into the configuration of something like that:
                                    https://stackoverflow.com/questions/51566225/nginx-load-balancing-a-turn-server

                                    @staff could easily adapt this to handle non HTTP traffic via the TURN server and the rest going to the Apps.

                                    Conscious tech

                                    girishG 1 Reply Last reply
                                    0
                                    • robiR robi

                                      What we really need then is a TURN server integrated with Nginx.

                                      Doing a quick search I haven't found an extension for Nginx, but then I thought why not front the TURN server we have with Nginx as a proxy load balancer which can include port 80/443 and UDP ports.

                                      This post goes into the configuration of something like that:
                                      https://stackoverflow.com/questions/51566225/nginx-load-balancing-a-turn-server

                                      @staff could easily adapt this to handle non HTTP traffic via the TURN server and the rest going to the Apps.

                                      girishG Offline
                                      girishG Offline
                                      girish
                                      Staff
                                      wrote on last edited by girish
                                      #39

                                      @robi Yes, see the jitsi handbook link in my previous post.

                                      1 Reply Last reply
                                      2
                                      • girishG girish

                                        @brutalbirdie said in BigBlueButton - web conferencing system for on-line learning:

                                        afaik girish and nebulon are aware of this but it's not a big priority right now. (Which I fully support)

                                        Actually, I am just fixing this for 6.1. I am trying out https://jitsi.github.io/handbook/docs/devops-guide/turn and hopefully that works. The main motivation for us is to move to using kopano meet internally and I suspect maybe this use of different port is what is causing many issues (which have been reported on this fourm). I hope the config there works because https://github.com/coturn/coturn/issues/43 was initially closed stating it was not possible (i.e turn requires a dedicated server to run on 443!)

                                        jdaviescoatesJ Offline
                                        jdaviescoatesJ Offline
                                        jdaviescoates
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #40

                                        @girish said in BigBlueButton - web conferencing system for on-line learning:

                                        Actually, I am just fixing this for 6.1. I am trying out https://jitsi.github.io/handbook/docs/devops-guide/turn and hopefully that works.

                                        Did this get into 6.1?

                                        I use Cloudron with Gandi & Hetzner

                                        girishG 1 Reply Last reply
                                        2
                                        • jdaviescoatesJ jdaviescoates

                                          @girish said in BigBlueButton - web conferencing system for on-line learning:

                                          Actually, I am just fixing this for 6.1. I am trying out https://jitsi.github.io/handbook/docs/devops-guide/turn and hopefully that works.

                                          Did this get into 6.1?

                                          girishG Offline
                                          girishG Offline
                                          girish
                                          Staff
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #41

                                          @jdaviescoates unfortunately, no

                                          1 Reply Last reply
                                          0
                                          • luckowL Offline
                                            luckowL Offline
                                            luckow
                                            translator
                                            wrote on last edited by
                                            #42

                                            Hi,

                                            from time to time there is an app request for jitsi & BigBlueButton here in the forum. I would like to throw my 2 cents into this discussion.

                                            First: We need a turn server on port 443 and 80 to help people join conferences. There are so many stupid networks / firewalls that a turn server is mandatory. Good news: We have a turn server as an app on Cloudron. Maybe later, it's possible to configure this app.

                                            Second: What is the background to this request? A video conference with friends? Say up to 10 people on the server? A combination of moodle and BigBlueButton for your local school? All my experience with video conferencing for larger groups brings me to the conclusion: forget these apps on Cloudron. They are hungry. In terms of RAM, CPU and bandwidth. The underlying software stack is real-time critical. Better use bare metal instead of cheap VMs. For schools, you need a cluster of BBB nodes and an upstream load balancer. Because of latency, you need a hosting provider close to most of the people using the video conference. For really huge conferences you need a dedicated 10 Gbit network. You need a lot of customisation under the hood. In short, to have a reliable infrastructure for videoconferencing, you need a lot of time to dig deep into the subject.

                                            (My) conclusion: We have Kopano Meet as an app. Let's make this app better for our use case (having a self hosted videoconference for our family and friends meetings). We have Greenlight as a frontend for dedicated BigBlueButton infrastructure. We can use Moodle, Nextcloud and WordPress as alternative frontends for BBB servers. We have Grafana and Prometheus for the metrics of BBB servers. We can use Statping.

                                            Good news is:

                                            The installation process for a dedicated BBB server is painless.
                                            https://github.com/bigbluebutton/bbb-install

                                            Wait for the configurable turn app on Cloudron or install a coturn yourself.

                                            1. Click yourself a dedicated bare metal. Let's say https://www.hetzner.com/de/dedicated-rootserver/ax41-nvme
                                            2. Install ubuntu 16 on it.
                                            3. SSH into it
                                            4. wget -qO- https://ubuntu.bigbluebutton.org/bbb-install.sh | bash -s -- -w -v xenial-22 -s bbb.example.com -e info@example.com -c <hostname>:<secret>
                                            5. Install Greenlight on Cloudron
                                            6. Take the output of bbb-conf --secret and put it into .env of Greenlight.
                                            7. Restart the Greenlight app.
                                            8. Happy videoconferencing with many users.

                                            For a better understanding of "What's going on?" install https://github.com/greenstatic/bigbluebutton-exporter to your BBB instance and add Grafana and Prometheus to your Cloudron.

                                            The basic installation of a dedicated Jitsi instance is also trouble-free.
                                            https://jitsi.github.io/handbook/docs/devops-guide/devops-guide-quickstart

                                            Since my larger conferences rely on BigBlueButton, I didn't feel the need to dig deep into jitsi's scaling. That's why I've installed jitsi meet on cheap VMs for up to 30 users.
                                            But if you want to go deeper into this topic, here is a link to a talk by a maintainer of jitsi meet -> https://fosdem.org/2021/schedule/event/jitsi_scaling/

                                            Pronouns: he/him | Primary language: German

                                            ? girishG 2 Replies Last reply
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