Zulip - Powerful open source group chat
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@marcusquinn said in Zulip - Powerful open source group chat:
Zulip threads aren't that clever, you can recreate that with sub-channels in any other chat platform,
Except that you cannot create sub-channels in Rocket.chat. You could see "Discussions" as sub-channels but they're not in terms of ux, there is no hierarchy displayed. Plus the idea is that Zulip forces to sort each message someone within a topic or as a new topic (like on email) which greatly helps with keeping the whole instance organised.
Channels in Zulip are more like placeholders within which you have topics and not somewhere you type messages, which is a level hierarchy to organise discussion that rocket.chat does not have (you could say that "Teams" in Mattermost are kinda similar in that respect - though the intended purpose is different). -
@avatar1024 My suggestion is that you can create sub-channels by naming convention. I already do this with a 100+ channel Discord server I manage, and it works very well with 50+ team members.
I know some people that like threads in Slack, personally I don't, and find it another data-dimension that gets used inconsistently in practice.
Yeah, I like the Teams concept in Mattermost, shame their mobile apps are single-server and somewhat clumsy to finger.
TBH, the most valuable concept I've found in any chat app is the Role-based user permissions in Discord, that make scaling so much easier and faster than individual permissions management.
I get Zulip's sales pitch, I just don't think it's the only way to solve organisation, and I find the variability or user-designed structures can become worse than admin-designed, just the same as forums, where there can be multi-threads and repeat threads if the user doesn't have a priority for organisation.
Either way, be nice to see Zulip on Cloudron, it has my upvote and I'll give it a deeper look if it makes the grade. In the meantime, there's some ideas for organisation with other chat apps for organisation that might help with some of the message burying probs they claim to have the only solution to.
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I used to use RC and met their executive team, but grew to dislike it's setup rigidity and lack of dark mode.
It's nice to see all the improvements, and new omni-marketing, but that just seems like a webhook away from any chat app.
Zulip has an abstraction layer similar to GMail, which is much more flexible, but actually reminds me of Google>Apache Wave (now defunct).
I just don't like the mobile notifications being held hostage.
The decentralized Kune had nice innovations, but seems to be unmaintained for the last 3 years.
Rizzoma is in a similar state.
Okuna looks promising though. (beta)
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One good thing to note about Zulip over Rocket.Chat is that Rocket has a 10,000 push notification limit... If you have 10 users sending 50 messages over one month, you're already over the limit!
There are some github support packages you can pay for ($5/$10) to increase your push notifications to 15k or 20k, but after that you have to pay. In this day and age. Push notifications are a must!
I understand they get millions so need to pay, but not being able to buy more than 20k makes this a bit problem as switching to Rocket cloud is very expensive
I'd love to see Zulip on here and even though it's not as easy to use, I've tried Mattermost, Rocket and Matrix/ Element and so far the other issues include; Mattermost CE has no user role/ permission management and Matrix is encrypted (albeit optionally) which I don't want for internal comms as we need to be able to audit it (like you would company emails).
Zulip is ideal, but I would love to see it on Cloudron so it can be managed with other Cloudron apps.
At the moment I have two Zulip setups and two devices with accounts on each, neither of which are getting push notifications (yes I've set it up properly). So once that is solved having Zulip on Cloudron would make life much easier.
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Zulip is one of the applications I use daily and is essential to me. I'm using it for an open-source project, self-hosted. I would be thrilled if it could be an application I could install on Cloudron and use with n8n, Baserow, Jitsi, and other applications available in Cloudron.
Some of the best examples/use cases of using Zulip and its advantages are below:
In addition, they recently have added a public access option, where anyone can view a topic without signing up simply by sharing a link.
One of the largest reasons I use Zulip is to have chats and our information organized as a knowledge base, it's our community's source of truth.
I hope the team considers making Zulip available on Cloudron.
Thank you for all of your hard work and support.
Regards,
Alex -
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@nebulon
I have used Zulip. It has integrated support for video conferencing using Jitsi. I liked it. The developers seemed like good people too. At the time, a few years ago, it seemed like RocketChat was on a more proprietary trajectory than Zulip.Odoo has some chat support too.
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I agree that Zulip would be quite handy as Rocket.chat seem to be going a strange way. I wonder:
Is there anyone currently working on packaging it?
Is there any particular technically difficulty when it comes to integrating it Cloudron? -
+1 for Zulip
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@girish Zulip now has an expiremental Docker image. Is there any chance that could speed up things?
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I keep thinking Zulip would be the chat option that could sway many of my contacts away from Facebook Messenger or WhatsApp.... Matrix+Element and even Rocketchat, for some reason, scare them as being too technical.
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now it has 40 upvotes
Lets GOOOOOooooooo
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@scooke I gave up on that quest a long time ago.
People resist anything they think is effort or unpopular. That's why hyper-scaling capitalism has been so successful and every social media platform a business is expected to be on the ones from the hyper-growth capitalism capital of the tech world.
I see people using WhatsApp and Messenger as no different to people that work production lines to make my devices and clothing. Most just don't want to know any different, as then they'd have to be unsatisfied with their status quo.
It's more valuable for business to keep people believing, and do whatever it takes to retain those "users" (ironic term considering it is also common in describing drug addicts), than it is for them to try lesser-known alternatives, regardless of their superior privacy. So you're competing against an industry of global indoctrination as a business model in that persuasion endeavour.
For me it's:
Nextcloud Talk for all business and organisation ventures.
Signal for my friends and family that care about privacy, although that also has its issues, mainly in lack of ability to export data.
Mattermost + Element I believe has some traction with UK Government using it, and perhaps others, but even I found it confusing to get working at first.
WhatEver for everyone else that's too lazy to care about their own freedom and finds more comfort in giving their value to brands.
It baffles me how many people I care about are addicted to diet sodas, too, but regardless of caring, they just don't see the harm, and worse see anyone's attempts to divert them from such perceived minor vices as an attack on their freedom to choose, even if they know it's a junk brand, it gives them comfort because popularity feels safer than healthy to many.
Web Design https://www.evergreen.je
Development https://brandlight.org
Life https://marcusquinn.com -
@marcusquinn said in Zulip - Powerful open source group chat:
and do whatever it takes to retain those "users" (ironic term considering it is also common in describing drug addicts)
Great insight!
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@marcusquinn said in Zulip - Powerful open source group chat:
It baffles me
I just found the "right-click, highlight text in post, quote" function. Anyway, I definitely agree, it is baffling and it is also a bit exasperating sometimes. A natural impulse to try and help others then needs to be self-curtailed. One ends up wanting to no longer support society.
