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    Solved Meet Kopano (unstable version) - a few questions & problems :)

    Kopano Meet
    kopano meetup
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    • luckow
      luckow translator last edited by girish

      Hi,

      I've installed Meet Kopano unstable.
      Default Settings
      The first attempt was to call myself with two different user accounts in two different browsers from the same laptop. In short: it never rings in the other browser window when one of the two logged in users tried to reach the other.

      The second attempt was to call myself with two different devices and two different user accounts. A Macbook and an ipad. The ipad used mobile data and the Mabook used a local network. Same behaviour as the first attempt.

      Settings with own TURN server
      For a separate bigbluebutton instance i had to install a TURN server. I used the settings from this TURN instance and entered the access data in /app/data/kwmserverd.cfg (turn_uris & turn_server_shared_secret).
      Third and fourth attempt. Take a guess. It never rang on the other device/browser

      Any hints?

      Btw: I'v read the documentation about guest users (https://documentation.kopano.io/kopano_meet_manual/special_configuration.html#configuring-meet-for-guest-users) Is this a feature for the Cloudron version of Kopano? I couldn't find the default file "registration_conf =" (from kwmserverd.cfg) and it could be a problem to edit /etc/kopano/konnectd.cfg, because it's on a read-only filesystem 🙂

      Pronouns: he/him | Primary language: German

      fbartels 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
      • fbartels
        fbartels App Dev @luckow last edited by fbartels

        Hi @luckow,

        please call it "Meet", Kopano is so much more than just our web meeting application 😉

        @luckow said in Kopano (unstable version) - a few questions & problems 🙂:
        In short: it never rings in the other browser window

        Yes, I have noticed this as well already although from the quick glance I had I could not yes see where the problem is. I am currently at a conference and did not yet have the chance for a deeper look, but I have created https://git.cloudron.io/cloudron/kopanomeet-app/issues/3 to look into this soon.

        Group calls however work.

        @luckow said in Kopano (unstable version) - a few questions & problems 🙂:

        Third and fourth attempt. Take a guess. It never rang on the other device/browser

        Yes, but that is not because of turn missing before. Signalling is done by kwmserver within the app, the turn server only comes into play once users have accepted the call and a direct connection should be established.

        @luckow said in Kopano (unstable version) - a few questions & problems 🙂:

        I'v read the documentation about guest users [..] Is this a feature for the Cloudron version of Kopano?

        Yes, it will be a feature for the future. Small steps first to see if someone really wants to use it 😉

        Issue for that is https://git.cloudron.io/cloudron/kopanomeet-app/issues/1

        scooke 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
        • luckow
          luckow translator last edited by

          Many thanks for the feedback @fbartels
          I've changed the name 😉

          Pronouns: he/him | Primary language: German

          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
          • scooke
            scooke @fbartels last edited by

            This post is deleted!
            scooke 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
            • avatar1024
              avatar1024 last edited by

              @fbartels Hello, I have a few question about Kopano meet:

              1. It's says on here that there is no third party, even the server provider cannot access the calls. How is that achieved? I thought that was very difficult using WebRTC. If there is encryption on top of that, would you qualified this service as E2EE?

              2. Is the experience as stable using chromium-based browsers and Firefox (and Safari)?

              3. Is there a hard limit on size of conference (as in number of attendees), or can it scale up as long as the server resource scale up?

              4. How much RAM is necessary for say a single conf with 10 / 20 / 30 pp?

              5. What codec / compression is used for audio and video?

              Many thanks!

              fbartels 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
              • fbartels
                fbartels App Dev @avatar1024 last edited by

                Hi @avatar1024,

                happy to answer your questions.

                1. that is actually the default in WebRTC communications. Connections are then always peer to peer and also end to end encrypted. What this often weakens in other projects is the usage of SFU or MCU services to lessen the upload for the individual. but this also means that then there will be a central instance that needs to receive and decrypt the user connections (the same can be said to all services offering server side call recording or sip gateways, these features simply cannot work with e2ee).
                2. WebRTC is best supported in Chromium browsers. Firefox is mostly fine as well. Safari is the modern day Internet Explorer and Apple is slow to pick up and fix their browser for modern technology that enables users to escape the walled garden.
                3. There is no hard limit on Meet or its components itself. Since calls are peer to peer there is hardly an impact on the server for an additional connection (just another websocket connections). The only server side limitation could be turn (for the case where it needs to relay connections) and this limitation is mostly bandwidth. Backend services are done in golang and are able to scale to thousands of connections on ordinary hardware.
                4. like I said, no real requirements server side. but since its all peer to peer and every participants needs to be connected to every other will likely run into user side limitations (encoding all streams, connection limits, bandwidth) on the clients if you really do calls with 10+ users.
                5. video is vp8 (because it supported on all browsers and easy on the cpu) and audio is opus. screensharing is vp9 since it requires less bandwidth for needed higher resolution (compared to caller video).
                avatar1024 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                • avatar1024
                  avatar1024 @fbartels last edited by

                  @fbartels Many thanks for your reply. That's very useful and makes it clear very.

                  Since what you are describing is a full mesh p2p network typology, is there any optimisation implemented by Kopano Meet (compared to others) to limit uplink bandwidth requirement on each peer to improve the performance and scalability?
                  As far as I understand it is one of the key limitation of doing things this way (compared to going through and SFU) as a trade off for being able to implement proper E2EE.
                  You mention VP8 as being easy on the CPU (but also more bandwidth). Do you therefore think that limitation on the user is likely to come more from CPU rather than bandwidth (comparing increase CPU power vs increase in broadband/mobile bandwidth)?

                  fbartels 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                  • fbartels
                    fbartels App Dev @avatar1024 last edited by

                    @avatar1024 said in Meet Kopano (unstable version) - a few questions & problems 🙂:

                    is there any optimisation implemented by Kopano Meet (compared to others) to limit uplink bandwidth requirement on each peer

                    You cannot generate more available bandwidth through software 😉

                    Generally speaking connections are limited to 1Mbit each (for video and audio). If there is not enough bandwidth available the browser itself will limit the data transmitted (reduce video quality) until the point where video will be deactivated completely.

                    @avatar1024 said in Meet Kopano (unstable version) - a few questions & problems 🙂:

                    You mention VP8 as being easy on the CPU (but also more bandwidth).

                    On of the reasons its so light on cpu is because hardware acceleration does widely exist for it, btw. But yes I think this is a fair statement. In the end you could run into situations where client would be unable to handle all the incoming and outgoing streams. There is a special "audio only" mode in Meet that could kind of help in these situations, as it turn off all outgoing and incoming video (incl. screensharing) and therefore would lessen the load of encoding the video.

                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                    • scooke
                      scooke @scooke last edited by

                      This post is deleted!
                      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                      • yusf
                        yusf last edited by

                        Since #1 was resolved the guest access feature should work now, right? I've edited `kwmserver.cfg

                        Enable guest access by default 🎉

                        yusf 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                        • yusf
                          yusf @yusf last edited by

                          Enable guest access by default 🎉

                          But when is v1.2.0 coming?

                          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                          • nebulon
                            nebulon Staff last edited by

                            The update package with guest support is released now 🙂

                            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 4
                            • luckow
                              luckow translator last edited by

                              The new update works fine. I had my first guest meeting 🙂

                              Pronouns: he/him | Primary language: German

                              luckow jdaviescoates 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 2
                              • luckow
                                luckow translator @luckow last edited by

                                @luckow If you want to have a meeting with iOS users, tell them that they (must) use Safari. There is no app for meet kopano. Don't use Firefox or other browsers on iOS. Safari is the tool of choice. But this is not a meet kopano issue.

                                Pronouns: he/him | Primary language: German

                                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                • yusf
                                  yusf last edited by yusf

                                  I seem to be doing something wrong with guest-enabled rooms. Guests are still prompted to sign in. Are there any gotchas I'm missing?

                                  My fault, I shared my own room URL rather than using the "Share Group link" feature. Maybe a shared room URL should redirect to the guest onboarding as well, since that still contains a link to the login flow?

                                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                  • jdaviescoates
                                    jdaviescoates @luckow last edited by

                                    @luckow doesn't seem to work very well at all for me 😞

                                    Have tried multiple times now and so far failed to have a successful call.

                                    I've mostly been trying on Firefox on Ubuntu, but have also tried Chromium with very similar results. Shall have to investigate further... (where shall I look for error logs, I wonder...)

                                    I use Cloudron with Gandi & Hetzner

                                    fbartels 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                    • fbartels
                                      fbartels App Dev @jdaviescoates last edited by

                                      @jdaviescoates said in Meet Kopano (unstable version) - a few questions & problems 🙂:

                                      where shall I look for error logs, I wonder..

                                      Yes, that is indeed the drawback with mostly client side applications, server side logs will not really help you. Hints on what could be going wrong can instead be found the the browser console. chrome://webrtc-internals/ can be interesting as well (depending on the concrete error).

                                      What is the exact behaviour you experience? The Cloudron turn is running on port 3478, could that port be blocked for either you or the other user in your call?

                                      jdaviescoates 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                      • yusf
                                        yusf last edited by

                                        I've also performed a realistic test scenario now and it's very spotty. With three people on different networks in different locations (though geographically pretty close) I managed to get video from one other participant but not audio, and neither video nor audio from the other one.

                                        I tried both Firefox (desktop) and Mobile Safari. Calls are pretty flawless with the same setup on the same LAN (though not the exact same peer devices).

                                        fbartels 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                        • fbartels
                                          fbartels App Dev @yusf last edited by

                                          @yusf which version of iOS are you on?

                                          Video but no audio is strange, since both are transmitted in the same connection.

                                          yusf 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                          • yusf
                                            yusf @fbartels last edited by

                                            @fbartels Latest stable, 13.3.1.

                                            fbartels 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                            • fbartels
                                              fbartels App Dev @yusf last edited by

                                              @yusf the latest is actually 13.4.1

                                              1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                              • jdaviescoates
                                                jdaviescoates @fbartels last edited by

                                                @fbartels said in Meet Kopano (unstable version) - a few questions & problems 🙂:

                                                What is the exact behaviour you experience?

                                                I've done a few tests.

                                                First of all I tried having a call with myself using my laptop on wifi (Lenovo T510 running Ubuntu 18.04 and Firefox 75.0) and my phone on 4g (Wileyfox Swift 2 Plus running Android 8.1.0 and Firefox 68.7.0) but it didn't work at all. No video nor audio.

                                                Not only that but after a while on my laptop Firefox seemed to suddenly be unable to connect to my camera and mic and then would fail to reconnect (this doesn't happen when testing Nextcloud Talk). And then when I clicked the screenshare button (just to see what it was) my whole laptop froze and I had to power off.

                                                Although saying all that, I just replicated the same test and this time it appeared to work quite well. I even got my wife to join in on her phone too and it kinda sorta worked (she lost connection at one point and mostly her video was frozen).

                                                Another time I did a test with my laptop, my phone, and my Mum on her laptop (in a different city). I can't remember exactly what happened, but I think I could see and her my Mum on my phone, but not on my laptop. But she could see me on my laptop but not on my phone, or something like that.

                                                So all in all, in the all tests I've done to date, mostly not really working 😕 (although the test I just did now went OK until there were 3 of us on the call)

                                                I've had much better experience using Nextcloud Talk so far, although I have to say I much prefer that way Kopano Meet gets guests to set their name and get their camera and mic working before joining the call. On Nextcloud Talk it's common to have multiple people join and for them to all be called Guest, which can get a bit confusing. I think I'll add an issue to Nextcloud Talk suggesting they make Guests add their name before joining too...

                                                I use Cloudron with Gandi & Hetzner

                                                fbartels S 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                                • fbartels
                                                  fbartels App Dev @jdaviescoates last edited by

                                                  Hi @jdaviescoates,

                                                  that all in all sounds strange. Especially freezing when trying to screenshare is nothing I have seen here so far.

                                                  O 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                  • nebulon
                                                    nebulon Staff last edited by

                                                    I remember @fbartels mentioning some browser session debugging tool to collect relevant information in such a case, maybe that can help sort our some of those cases. Overall we had generally a good experience so far with the app, but given all the various browsers and their various states of webrtc it seems to be a hard issue to tackle.

                                                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                    • O
                                                      oj @fbartels last edited by

                                                      Hi @fbartels,

                                                      Just had my first few one-on-one video calls with registered users and guests... Iridium browser at my end and Chrome at the other end. Worked flawlessly...even with 4G at my end. Excellent user experience at both ends. Thanks for bringing Kopano Meet to Cloudron!

                                                      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                                                      • N
                                                        NCKNE last edited by NCKNE

                                                        Hello @fbartels,

                                                        I just installed Kopano Meet to give it a try and encountered the following error after installation on cloudron v5.1.4 with Kopano Meet version 2.1.0 (Package v1.2.1):

                                                        Apr 15 17:16:33 2020/04/15 15:16:33 Waiting for https://meet.xxx.xx/.well-known/openid-configuration: unexpected HTTP status code: 404.
                                                        Apr 15 17:16:33 2020/04/15 15:16:33 Failed to wait: timed out: https://meet.xxx.xx/.well-known/openid-configuration.
                                                        Apr 15 17:16:33 time="2020-04-15T15:16:33Z" level=info msg="serve start"
                                                        Apr 15 17:16:33 time="2020-04-15T15:16:33Z" level=info msg="using external TURN service: https://turnauth.kopano.com/turnserverauth/"
                                                        Apr 15 17:16:33 time="2020-04-15T15:16:33Z" level=info msg="serve started"
                                                        Apr 15 17:16:43 time="2020-04-15T15:16:43Z" level=warning msg="failed to initialize OIDC provider" error="Timeout (:0x105)" iss="https://meet.xxx.xx"
                                                        Apr 15 17:16:43 time="2020-04-15T15:16:43Z" level=warning msg="admin: using random admin tokens singing key - API endpoint admin disabled"
                                                        Apr 15 17:16:43 time="2020-04-15T15:16:43Z" level=info msg="pattern ^group/public/.* public guest rooms enabled" manager=guest
                                                        Apr 15 17:16:43 time="2020-04-15T15:16:43Z" level=info msg="guest: API endpoint enabled"
                                                        Apr 15 17:16:43 time="2020-04-15T15:16:43Z" level=info msg="rtm: API endpoint enabled"
                                                        Apr 15 17:16:43 time="2020-04-15T15:16:43Z" level=info msg="starting http listener" listenAddr="127.0.0.1:8778"
                                                        Apr 15 17:16:43 time="2020-04-15T15:16:43Z" level=info msg="ready to handle requests"
                                                        

                                                        The app starts, but no login is possible (the login button on the Kopano Meet page does not do anything upon clicking).

                                                        On the client side, the following error comes up:

                                                        oidc-client.min.js:718 GET https://meet.xxx.xx/.well-known/openid-configuration 404
                                                        (anonymous) @ oidc-client.min.js:718
                                                        (anonymous) @ oidc-client.min.js:693
                                                        (anonymous) @ oidc-client.min.js:289
                                                        value @ usermanager.js:317
                                                        (anonymous) @ actions.js:667
                                                        w @ runtime.js:62
                                                        (anonymous) @ runtime.js:288
                                                        (anonymous) @ runtime.js:114
                                                        w @ runtime.js:62
                                                        e @ runtime.js:152
                                                        (anonymous) @ runtime.js:187
                                                        o @ runtime.js:186
                                                        (anonymous) @ runtime.js:209
                                                        (anonymous) @ runtime.js:114
                                                        (anonymous) @ runtime.js:233
                                                        (anonymous) @ actions.js:658
                                                        Promise.then (async)
                                                        (anonymous) @ actions.js:656
                                                        (anonymous) @ index.js:8
                                                        dispatch @ applyMiddleware.js:46
                                                        (anonymous) @ actions.js:318
                                                        w @ runtime.js:62
                                                        (anonymous) @ runtime.js:288
                                                        (anonymous) @ runtime.js:114
                                                        w @ runtime.js:62
                                                        e @ runtime.js:152
                                                        (anonymous) @ runtime.js:187
                                                        o @ runtime.js:186
                                                        (anonymous) @ runtime.js:209
                                                        (anonymous) @ runtime.js:114
                                                        (anonymous) @ runtime.js:233
                                                        (anonymous) @ actions.js:309
                                                        (anonymous) @ index.js:8
                                                        dispatch @ applyMiddleware.js:46
                                                        (anonymous) @ actions.js:356
                                                        w @ runtime.js:62
                                                        (anonymous) @ runtime.js:288
                                                        (anonymous) @ runtime.js:114
                                                        w @ runtime.js:62
                                                        e @ runtime.js:152
                                                        (anonymous) @ runtime.js:162
                                                        Promise.then (async)
                                                        e @ runtime.js:161
                                                        (anonymous) @ runtime.js:187
                                                        o @ runtime.js:186
                                                        (anonymous) @ runtime.js:209
                                                        (anonymous) @ runtime.js:114
                                                        (anonymous) @ runtime.js:233
                                                        (anonymous) @ actions.js:316
                                                        (anonymous) @ index.js:8
                                                        dispatch @ applyMiddleware.js:46
                                                        n @ actions.js:216
                                                        (anonymous) @ actions.js:232
                                                        w @ runtime.js:62
                                                        (anonymous) @ runtime.js:288
                                                        (anonymous) @ runtime.js:114
                                                        w @ runtime.js:62
                                                        e @ runtime.js:152
                                                        (anonymous) @ runtime.js:187
                                                        o @ runtime.js:186
                                                        (anonymous) @ runtime.js:209
                                                        (anonymous) @ runtime.js:114
                                                        (anonymous) @ runtime.js:233
                                                        (anonymous) @ actions.js:224
                                                        (anonymous) @ AuthenticatedRoute.js:22
                                                        Promise.then (async)
                                                        render @ AuthenticatedRoute.js:20
                                                        (anonymous) @ react-router.js:444
                                                        Li @ react-dom.production.min.js:4074
                                                        qa @ react-dom.production.min.js:5514
                                                        Ka @ react-dom.production.min.js:5536
                                                        Ds @ react-dom.production.min.js:5958
                                                        Ms @ react-dom.production.min.js:5925
                                                        Es @ react-dom.production.min.js:5860
                                                        es @ react-dom.production.min.js:5787
                                                        enqueueSetState @ react-dom.production.min.js:2790
                                                        (anonymous) @ react.production.min.js:72
                                                        (anonymous) @ Main.js:56
                                                        u @ runtime.js:45
                                                        (anonymous) @ runtime.js:264
                                                        (anonymous) @ runtime.js:98
                                                        r @ asyncToGenerator.js:3
                                                        s @ asyncToGenerator.js:25
                                                        Promise.then (async)
                                                        r @ asyncToGenerator.js:13
                                                        s @ asyncToGenerator.js:25
                                                        (anonymous) @ asyncToGenerator.js:32
                                                        (anonymous) @ asyncToGenerator.js:21
                                                        Promise.then (async)
                                                        value @ Main.js:53
                                                        Ba @ react-dom.production.min.js:4980
                                                        Ga @ react-dom.production.min.js:5123
                                                        (anonymous) @ react-dom.production.min.js:5975
                                                        (anonymous) @ scheduler.production.min.js:274
                                                        Ls @ react-dom.production.min.js:5974
                                                        Ds @ react-dom.production.min.js:5958
                                                        Ms @ react-dom.production.min.js:5925
                                                        Es @ react-dom.production.min.js:5860
                                                        es @ react-dom.production.min.js:5787
                                                        enqueueSetState @ react-dom.production.min.js:2790
                                                        (anonymous) @ react.production.min.js:72
                                                        t @ index.js:240
                                                        (anonymous) @ index.js:250
                                                        Promise.then (async)
                                                        (anonymous) @ index.js:249
                                                        (anonymous) @ index.js:197
                                                        lo @ react-dom.production.min.js:2854
                                                        Ri @ react-dom.production.min.js:3759
                                                        Li @ react-dom.production.min.js:3960
                                                        qa @ react-dom.production.min.js:5514
                                                        Ka @ react-dom.production.min.js:5536
                                                        Ds @ react-dom.production.min.js:5958
                                                        Ms @ react-dom.production.min.js:5925
                                                        Es @ react-dom.production.min.js:5860
                                                        es @ react-dom.production.min.js:5787
                                                        enqueueSetState @ react-dom.production.min.js:2790
                                                        (anonymous) @ react.production.min.js:72
                                                        (anonymous) @ IntlContainer.js:281
                                                        Promise.then (async)
                                                        value @ IntlContainer.js:280
                                                        Ba @ react-dom.production.min.js:4978
                                                        Ga @ react-dom.production.min.js:5123
                                                        (anonymous) @ react-dom.production.min.js:5975
                                                        (anonymous) @ scheduler.production.min.js:274
                                                        Ls @ react-dom.production.min.js:5974
                                                        Ds @ react-dom.production.min.js:5958
                                                        Ms @ react-dom.production.min.js:5925
                                                        Es @ react-dom.production.min.js:5860
                                                        es @ react-dom.production.min.js:5787
                                                        Us @ react-dom.production.min.js:6077
                                                        Ys @ react-dom.production.min.js:6085
                                                        (anonymous) @ react-dom.production.min.js:6276
                                                        (anonymous) @ react-dom.production.min.js:6360
                                                        Is @ react-dom.production.min.js:6007
                                                        Vs @ react-dom.production.min.js:6359
                                                        render @ react-dom.production.min.js:6390
                                                        831 @ app.js:51
                                                        i @ bootstrap:89
                                                        Promise.then (async)
                                                        (anonymous) @ index.js:18
                                                        Promise.then (async)
                                                        184 @ index.js:14
                                                        i @ bootstrap:89
                                                        107 @ main.758e3f7e.chunk.js?__WB_REVISION__=ebc8e0d9096114f5d646:1
                                                        i @ bootstrap:89
                                                        r @ bootstrap:45
                                                        t @ bootstrap:32
                                                        (anonymous) @ main.758e3f7e.chunk.js?__WB_REVISION__=ebc8e0d9096114f5d646:1
                                                        actions.js:251 failed to continue config initialization Error:  (404)
                                                            at XMLHttpRequest.<anonymous> (oidc-client.min.js:715)
                                                        

                                                        Any idea what could be the problem?

                                                        fbartels 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                        • fbartels
                                                          fbartels App Dev @NCKNE last edited by fbartels

                                                          Hi @NCKNE,

                                                          thanks for your feedback. The immediate cause for your error is the 404 when getting the discovery document from the .well-known directory. Can you check if Konnect is running (the program that provides the document)? You can do so when opening a terminal inside of the app and then running supervisorctl status kopano-konnectd.

                                                          What I find especially weird is that you got a 404 (file not found), in case Konnect isn't running this should normally be a 503 (service unavailable). Which version of Cloudron are you on? Where is that machine running (behind dynamic dns)? How do you manage dns (could it be that meet.xxx.xx still points somewhere else)?

                                                          Edit: ah, this seems to be some general breakage with the latest version of Cloudron. https://forum.cloudron.io/post/7396 reports something similar and @girish said a new version is already rolling out.

                                                          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                          • girish
                                                            girish Staff last edited by

                                                            @fbartels Sorry, yes, my bad. In 5.1.4 I broke apps that serve up .well-known docs of their own 😕

                                                            On a side note, we use Kopano meet for our weeklies and we haven't had any issues.

                                                            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                                                            • N
                                                              NCKNE last edited by NCKNE

                                                              Thanks for the update @girish! The 5.1.5 update of cloudron fixes the error and Kopano Meet is working now.

                                                              1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 3
                                                              • luckow
                                                                luckow translator last edited by luckow

                                                                Let us find out how many participants are possible with a Kopano Meet app on Cloudron (v5.15).

                                                                Invitation
                                                                When: Monday 20. April 21:00 (Europe/Berlin)
                                                                Where: https://meet.luckow.org/meet/r/join/group/public/cloudron-meetup

                                                                Please: use chromium/chrome & Headset

                                                                Specs: netcup vm, 6 CPU, 32 RAM, HDD

                                                                Bildschirmfoto 2020-04-17 um 19.39.05.png

                                                                Pronouns: he/him | Primary language: German

                                                                fbartels scooke 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 3
                                                                • fbartels
                                                                  fbartels App Dev @luckow last edited by

                                                                  @luckow thats a nice idea. I have created a reminder for myself.

                                                                  We once had a call with around 30 participants, but that was not really stable and just a quick test.

                                                                  We are currently working on a sfu for some customers, if there is interest we could do a comparing test afterwards with that kind of a setup.

                                                                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                                                  • scooke
                                                                    scooke @luckow last edited by

                                                                    @luckow I'll join in, thanks.

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                                                                      stantropics @jdaviescoates last edited by stantropics

                                                                      @jdaviescoates Have you investigated further? I have also tried to a few meetings with 3 to 5 people with several problems. Sometimes people cannot connect at all, sometimes they are not getting any sound or their sound is not transmitted to other participants. Very hard to analyze ...

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                                                                      • jdaviescoates
                                                                        jdaviescoates @stantropics last edited by

                                                                        @stantropics no not had a chance (nor really sure how to), although I think I read somewhere that with full p2p WebRTC apps like Kopano Meet all users need to have enough bandwidth for all streams or something, is that right @fbartels?

                                                                        Either way it seems most people have so far had a better experience than us... So I'm keen to try more. Will attempt to join the group call..

                                                                        I use Cloudron with Gandi & Hetzner

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                                                                        • girish
                                                                          girish Staff last edited by

                                                                          @luckow I will join if my home internet starts working again.

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                                                                          • fbartels
                                                                            fbartels App Dev @jdaviescoates last edited by

                                                                            @jdaviescoates said in Meet Kopano (unstable version) - a few questions & problems 🙂:

                                                                            all users need to have enough bandwidth for all streams or something

                                                                            Yes, with a peer to peer connection all users need to connect to each other participant. Connections in Meet are limited to max 1 Mbit per participant, if a user does not have sufficient bandwidth for that the browser will automatically reduce quality down to a level where video would be deactivated completely.

                                                                            Some more usage questions are answered in https://kopano.com/blog/top-10-things-to-ask-about-kopano-meet/

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                                                                            • avatar1024
                                                                              avatar1024 @jdaviescoates last edited by

                                                                              @jdaviescoates said in Meet Kopano (unstable version) - a few questions & problems 🙂:

                                                                              with full p2p WebRTC apps like Kopano Meet all users need to have enough bandwidth for all streams or something

                                                                              Here is a nice explanation of the pros and cons of the three main typologies used for video conference: p2p / MCU / SFU

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                                                                              • avatar1024
                                                                                avatar1024 last edited by

                                                                                Also might be of interest:

                                                                                An article which test a methodology to compare SFUs, and then test a few of them. Results probably do not reflect real case scenario though.

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                                                                                • scooke
                                                                                  scooke last edited by

                                                                                  Sorry for not participating, had some connectivity issues here. How did the call go?

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                                                                                    msbt App Dev last edited by

                                                                                    you didn't miss it, it's this evening 😉

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                                                                                    • scooke
                                                                                      scooke @msbt last edited by

                                                                                      @msbt Ah, I had the already-converted time in my head, "9", and then misremembered it as 'am'. Phew.

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                                                                                      • girish
                                                                                        girish Staff last edited by

                                                                                        That went pretty well! Thanks for joining and @luckow for organizing.

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                                                                                        • jdaviescoates
                                                                                          jdaviescoates @girish last edited by

                                                                                          @girish @luckow how many people did it get up to? I wanted to join but alas was having a nightmare of a children's bedtime instead! 😛

                                                                                          I use Cloudron with Gandi & Hetzner

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                                                                                          • scooke
                                                                                            scooke @jdaviescoates last edited by

                                                                                            @jdaviescoates Seven. One left their video off. We had three reconnections but those were momentary and the reconnection initially resulted in clearer video images each time.

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                                                                                            • yusf
                                                                                              yusf last edited by

                                                                                              How resource-intensive was the session? Was the beefy spec justified?

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                                                                                              • imc67
                                                                                                imc67 translator last edited by

                                                                                                Hi all, today I introduced Kopane Meet for the first time in our (volunteers) organization for a video meeting with 1 account and 5 guests.

                                                                                                It was a disaster! After half an hour trying and frustration we stopped and 4 of them started a WhatsApp groupvideo (Whatsapp has a max of 4?!).

                                                                                                What went right?
                                                                                                The first 2 persons (account and 1 guest) succeeded in having audio and video.

                                                                                                What went wrong?
                                                                                                All other guests could join (we could see their names) but they didn't see any video or heared audio and the first two didn't see/hear them. They could see themselves in their browser.

                                                                                                Time to uninstall the app and hopefully Jitsi Meet will be here soon.

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                                                                                                • yusf
                                                                                                  yusf last edited by

                                                                                                  Sounds like my experience with Kopano. Maybe you can describe device types, browsers and network topology used? I suspect some of the problems derives from part network restrictions but also weak devices and faulty browsers.

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                                                                                                    stantropics @imc67 last edited by

                                                                                                    @imc67 It also sounds exactly like my experience with Kopano meet. I'm trying to analyze whether the problem is somewhere on my side - however, it appears to be a real challenge.

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                                                                                                    • imc67
                                                                                                      imc67 translator @yusf last edited by

                                                                                                      @yusf of some I know their devices/browsers:

                                                                                                      1. account: MacOS+Safari = all fine (could see/hear 2.)
                                                                                                      2. guest: MacOS+Safari = all fine (could see/hear account, BTW on same network as account)
                                                                                                      3. guest: MacOS+Safari and iPad+Safari = connected, could see himself, but no audio/video to/from others
                                                                                                      4. guest: iPad+Safari = connected, could see himself, but no audio/video to/from others
                                                                                                      5. guest: Samsung tablet with Chrome = connected, could see himself, but no audio/video to/from others
                                                                                                      6. guest: ? = connected, could see himself, but no audio/video to/from others

                                                                                                      The WhatsApp groupvideo after half an hour strugling with four (2./3./4./5.) went perfect, so it's not a matter of bandwith I guess.

                                                                                                      Cloudron server load or bandwith usage during the "call" was normal, so no increase in CPU resources or network (I use ZABBIX agent on the Cloudron server so can see all stats live and all history is stored).

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                                                                                                      • necrevistonnezr
                                                                                                        necrevistonnezr last edited by

                                                                                                        off-topic: I think one lesson to learn here is that to do video conferencing properly is quite hard. You can hate on Zoom and Teams all you want but if you actually have your work depend on it (e.g. meeting with a client, like I do on a daily basis), it's quite a different story than just having fun with friends.

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                                                                                                        • fbartels
                                                                                                          fbartels App Dev @imc67 last edited by

                                                                                                          Hi @imc67,

                                                                                                          browser versions are equally as important as the browser itself. and sadly Safari isn't the best when it comes to supporting modern standard such as PWAs and WebRTC. The general recommendation would be to use Chrome or Chromium based browsers.

                                                                                                          @imc67 said in Meet Kopano (unstable version) - a few questions & problems 🙂:

                                                                                                          Cloudron server load or bandwith usage during the "call" was normal

                                                                                                          Yes, that is to be expected when using WebRTC, the majority of traffic is between individual callers. There are still some connections to the server, like for example a websocket connection to kwmserver for notifications and then of course the connection to the turn server.

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                                                                                                          • luckow
                                                                                                            luckow translator last edited by

                                                                                                            Charming participants at the first (virtual) Cloudron meetup 🙂

                                                                                                            kopano-meet.jpg

                                                                                                            Pronouns: he/him | Primary language: German

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                                                                                                              oj @luckow last edited by

                                                                                                              @luckow We should do this again when @fbartels packages "Kopano Meet Boost" on Cloudron!

                                                                                                              "Kopano Meet Boost is a server that we offer to our enterprise customers to meet this challenge. It is a Selective Forwarding Unit (SFU) that receives only one data stream from the sender and forwards it to all other participants. This drastically reduces the required computing power at the client and saves bandwidth. Thus, video meetings are also possible with 50 and more participants."

                                                                                                              https://github.com/Kopano-dev/kwmbridge

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                                                                                                              • fbartels
                                                                                                                fbartels App Dev @oj last edited by

                                                                                                                @oj said in Meet Kopano (unstable version) - a few questions & problems 🙂:

                                                                                                                packages "Kopano Meet Boost" on Cloudron

                                                                                                                thats unfortunately a bit impractical to do. kwmbridge requires a large range of udp ports so running it in a container with forwarded ports is quite inefficient (because there is also quite a memory overhead in Docker in this case).

                                                                                                                But it should be easy to make the app configurable enough to have kwmbridge running on a dedicated host and simply hook up to kwmserver inside of the app. having (multiple) external kwmbridge endpoints is kind of the setup we are expecting anyways.

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