Meet Kopano (unstable version) - a few questions & problems :)



  • Hi,

    I've installed Meet Kopano unstable.
    Default Settings
    The first attempt was to call myself with two different user accounts in two different browsers from the same laptop. In short: it never rings in the other browser window when one of the two logged in users tried to reach the other.

    The second attempt was to call myself with two different devices and two different user accounts. A Macbook and an ipad. The ipad used mobile data and the Mabook used a local network. Same behaviour as the first attempt.

    Settings with own TURN server
    For a separate bigbluebutton instance i had to install a TURN server. I used the settings from this TURN instance and entered the access data in /app/data/kwmserverd.cfg (turn_uris & turn_server_shared_secret).
    Third and fourth attempt. Take a guess. It never rang on the other device/browser

    Any hints?

    Btw: I'v read the documentation about guest users (https://documentation.kopano.io/kopano_meet_manual/special_configuration.html#configuring-meet-for-guest-users) Is this a feature for the Cloudron version of Kopano? I couldn't find the default file "registration_conf =" (from kwmserverd.cfg) and it could be a problem to edit /etc/kopano/konnectd.cfg, because it's on a read-only filesystem 🙂



  • Hi @luckow,

    please call it "Meet", Kopano is so much more than just our web meeting application 😉

    @luckow said in Kopano (unstable version) - a few questions & problems 🙂:
    In short: it never rings in the other browser window

    Yes, I have noticed this as well already although from the quick glance I had I could not yes see where the problem is. I am currently at a conference and did not yet have the chance for a deeper look, but I have created https://git.cloudron.io/cloudron/kopanomeet-app/issues/3 to look into this soon.

    Group calls however work.

    @luckow said in Kopano (unstable version) - a few questions & problems 🙂:

    Third and fourth attempt. Take a guess. It never rang on the other device/browser

    Yes, but that is not because of turn missing before. Signalling is done by kwmserver within the app, the turn server only comes into play once users have accepted the call and a direct connection should be established.

    @luckow said in Kopano (unstable version) - a few questions & problems 🙂:

    I'v read the documentation about guest users [..] Is this a feature for the Cloudron version of Kopano?

    Yes, it will be a feature for the future. Small steps first to see if someone really wants to use it 😉

    Issue for that is https://git.cloudron.io/cloudron/kopanomeet-app/issues/1



  • Many thanks for the feedback @fbartels
    I've changed the name 😉



  • @fbartels If it allows for a true 'url only' connection for guests, then YES, I would use it and promote it in a heartbeat!!!



  • @fbartels Hello, I have a few question about Kopano meet:

    1. It's says on here that there is no third party, even the server provider cannot access the calls. How is that achieved? I thought that was very difficult using WebRTC. If there is encryption on top of that, would you qualified this service as E2EE?

    2. Is the experience as stable using chromium-based browsers and Firefox (and Safari)?

    3. Is there a hard limit on size of conference (as in number of attendees), or can it scale up as long as the server resource scale up?

    4. How much RAM is necessary for say a single conf with 10 / 20 / 30 pp?

    5. What codec / compression is used for audio and video?

    Many thanks!



  • Hi @avatar1024,

    happy to answer your questions.

    1. that is actually the default in WebRTC communications. Connections are then always peer to peer and also end to end encrypted. What this often weakens in other projects is the usage of SFU or MCU services to lessen the upload for the individual. but this also means that then there will be a central instance that needs to receive and decrypt the user connections (the same can be said to all services offering server side call recording or sip gateways, these features simply cannot work with e2ee).
    2. WebRTC is best supported in Chromium browsers. Firefox is mostly fine as well. Safari is the modern day Internet Explorer and Apple is slow to pick up and fix their browser for modern technology that enables users to escape the walled garden.
    3. There is no hard limit on Meet or its components itself. Since calls are peer to peer there is hardly an impact on the server for an additional connection (just another websocket connections). The only server side limitation could be turn (for the case where it needs to relay connections) and this limitation is mostly bandwidth. Backend services are done in golang and are able to scale to thousands of connections on ordinary hardware.
    4. like I said, no real requirements server side. but since its all peer to peer and every participants needs to be connected to every other will likely run into user side limitations (encoding all streams, connection limits, bandwidth) on the clients if you really do calls with 10+ users.
    5. video is vp8 (because it supported on all browsers and easy on the cpu) and audio is opus. screensharing is vp9 since it requires less bandwidth for needed higher resolution (compared to caller video).


  • @fbartels Many thanks for your reply. That's very useful and makes it clear very.

    Since what you are describing is a full mesh p2p network typology, is there any optimisation implemented by Kopano Meet (compared to others) to limit uplink bandwidth requirement on each peer to improve the performance and scalability?
    As far as I understand it is one of the key limitation of doing things this way (compared to going through and SFU) as a trade off for being able to implement proper E2EE.
    You mention VP8 as being easy on the CPU (but also more bandwidth). Do you therefore think that limitation on the user is likely to come more from CPU rather than bandwidth (comparing increase CPU power vs increase in broadband/mobile bandwidth)?


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