OpenLiteSpeed Wordpress

girish

Yeah, it's not ideal to have two proxies before hitting wordpress.

I can try adding a field in the manifest to specify additional http ports in the next release. That should sort out this issue.

MooCloud_Matt

@girish
or possibility to add like a proxy_pass to a path, example: wordpress.domain.ch/ols_admin --> container:7080

girish

@MooCloud_Matt Right. I do prefer the path based approach you mention instead of wordpress.domain.ch:7080.

MooCloud_Matt

@girish
me to, its cleaner as solution, and more flexible for future app too (minecraft for exemple)

MooCloud_Matt

hello everyone,
I wanted to update you on the status on OLS.
In agreement with @girish the application will not be published on the store because it will be released with a open source license, but which prohibits its use by MSP or Managed Hosting Provider; and because themselves cannot guarantee support on the app.
In all cases we are working together to ensure that the Apps developed by MooCloud will be available in the store sooner or later.

As soon as the custom proxy_pass support is added to the manifest we will release the application to the public downloadable from our docker registry.

girish

Currently, all packages our our store are maintained by us and we provide the support as well (to the best we can). We don't have a mechanism for 3rd party packages. We need to have a way to show/mark this in the UI as well as inform the user accordingly of the support expectations. If people have ideas, we are happy to consider this. Please open a separate thread though in the feature requests category, so that we don't derail this OLS thread

marcusquinn

From a UI point of view, maybe keep App Store as your supported Managed Apps and have separate section, maybe just called "3rd Party"

Maybe an "Add Repositories" button to add Gitlab Group or Repo URLs?

micmc

@girish How about embeding it with Unmanaged WP installation as of with redis? Is this something that could be done?

I personally totally agree with not messing too much with third parties packages from cloudron box, especially as, indeed, you'd have no control on future devs of such outsider apps and thus no control on the outcomes. I believe what you are doing already is extraordinary imho so as some say "if a thing works well, don't f.... try to 'fix' the thing..." lol

MooCloud_Matt

@micmc
But will mean that OLS and all the apps that we are working on will be available only for Moocloud customer.
If you want there is a post on that, If u want to discuss with us.

mikulabc

What's the status here guys? I came here wanting to use cloudron wp with OLS, anyway we can get this online?

girish

@mikulabc Currently, @MooCloud_Matt wants to keep the package exclusive to their customers. Maybe we (cloudron team) will package it for all our customers at some point once we get enough votes for this app.

ruihildt

I'm a bit disappointed as I don't think this was mentioned in any previous public discussions on the subject.

@MooCloud_Matt Would you consider sharing your code with the community? I'm not sure anyone here is directly competing with your business to be honest.^^

marcusquinn

Having been through a of of WP performance testing and comparison in the past, including OLS, I really wouldn't feel your missing out, as we neither managed to get performance as good as standard Nginx & Apache, and it really didn't seem either broadly known by devs or any more than just good default settings that can be done and more with Nginx & Apache anyway.

Long story short, I don't think anyone is missing out without this as the Cloudron WP stack is already very good, and any performance issues are more than likely with the codebase running on whatever stack, and within that most likely sql query efficiencies in certain plugins that tend to only show themselves slow when you add content.

First think I recommend everyone should try is disable open_basedir, it was one of the simplest and most impactful changes we made for the least effort.

We also use a technique similar to that offered with this plugin for only loading what's needed to render each page, before any caching:

https://codecanyon.net/item/deactivate-plugins-per-page-improve-wordpress-performance/23801359

Gonzales or Clearfy Asset Manager does similar things - but like all these things, you need to know or at least bear in mind what you're doing as whenever you unload things you create debugging blindspots:

If, after all of that optimisation, you still think OLS is needed, there's no harm in trying other than time but I suspect most will finds that OLS won't help with performance as much as optimising what is asked of the server by the app first.

girish

I haven't done extensive testing with OLS, but to add to what @marcusquinn said, the main speed benefits come from caching (which OLS does by default). With WP, if you install WP Super Cache or equivalent, you get very good numbers on Cloudron. It's on my list to investigate integrating Super Cache or something as the default. But these caches always have some corner cases where you have to click the "clear cache" button manually and then we have to inform users about all this. This is why we have left the choice to the user for now.

marcusquinn

@girish Agreed - see caching as more of a problem than a solution, and it usually masks more problems than it solves. Caching is for scaling traffic but full-page caching can't help with dynamic content.

I can't say we have all the solutions but we have been down the road of trying so many solutions and always come back to the fundamentals that it's the quality of the plugins used and their query efficiency that has the most impact, and we focus on WP Admin speed foremost because that's generally heavier and slower, so if we get that right the front-end is usually fine.

MooCloud_Matt

@marcusquinn
Hey Marcus,

yes and no, OLS/LS is objectively more efficient over apache, and this make it more performant then apache.
Berceuse as Nginx it can serve static file without wake up a php, that apache is using for every request on a WP.
But as i already say sometimes a good server lvl optimization of nginx is performing as well but is not easy to setup, OLS or LS offer LSCache to do all the config from WP dashboard.

WP plugin are not the best way to go, because they just let the call be managed by a PHP, many like Cache enabler, just create a HTML copy of the website, that is more performant no elaboration needed by db or php, but if you use apache you will wake up PHP anyway so CPU and RAM wasted.

@ruihildt
We are in Open Beta for OLS, if you want we can provide you the image.
But for now the code is closed sourse, it will be realise with a custom licenses that is open source but not commercially usable by MSP or ISP to offer WordPress as a Service or PaaS.

Lonkle

@moocloud_matt I only use Cloudron for personal / development purposes. My production Wordpress installation (hosted elsewhere) uses OLS so it'd be nice to use my Cloudron installation to have the same stack for testing purposes. Would you mind sharing the image with me as well?

MooCloud_Matt

@lonk
Yes, ofc!

just contact me on the cloudron chat: @MooCloud-Matt.

micmc

@moocloud_matt said in OpenLiteSpeed Wordpress:

@ruihildt
We are in Open Beta for OLS, if you want we can provide you the image.
But for now the code is closed sourse, it will be realise with a custom licenses that is open source but not commercially usable by MSP or ISP to offer WordPress as a Service or PaaS.

As far as I know, 'OPENLiteSpeed' is the OPEN version of LiteSpeed server and is licensed under GPL3 which means you cannot take this OPEN SOURCE software, go away with it and close the code for you and your licking.

To give an idea this is the preamble that MUST be included in each file's header:

<one line to give the program's name and a brief idea of what it does.>
    Copyright (C) <year>  <name of author>

    This program is free software: you can redistribute it and/or modify
    it under the terms of the GNU General Public License as published by
    the Free Software Foundation, either version 3 of the License, or
    (at your option) any later version.

    This program is distributed in the hope that it will be useful,
    but WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of
    MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.  See the
    GNU General Public License for more details.

    You should have received a copy of the GNU General Public License
    along with this program.  If not, see <https://www.gnu.org/licenses/>.

Even before reading the terms of the license, this preamble says it all.

I recommend you read carefully the terms of General PUBLIC Licenses 1, 2, and 3 and if you don't understand then ask for legal advice from law people if you do not want to risk to get into hot-water, because in light of what you are saying this is something you cannot do. Jtlyk.

Andy

MooCloud_Matt

@micmc
We are not closing OLS, but the other code on the image, that we have written and develop, like the cli interface.

Docker image (dockerfile), cloudron.manifest file and the software that they contain can have different license in any case.

micmc

@moocloud_matt said in OpenLiteSpeed Wordpress:

@micmc
We are not closing OLS,

Yet, this is what YOU said/wrote, I can read loll

@ruihildt
We are in Open Beta for OLS, if you want we can
provide you the image.
But >>for now the code is closed sourse<<

Cheers!
Andy

MooCloud_Matt

@micmc
Is been always the same, we previously have use OLS as moocloud app of OLS that use a custom image that include proprietary code.
That allow us to choose the license for our image.
OLS and the other software inside will maintain there license as usual.

Our license will not interfere with any cloudron customer but only with MSP or Hosting providers, if you are one of those 2 you can contact moocloud and we can have an agreement.

kris

Hello
Has the project been abandoned? If not, when can we expect to see WordPress in the OLS environment

MooCloud_Matt

@kris
hello @kris,

for now, all the apps developed by us are not on the store, we are talking with the Cloudron team about how partners can publish apps.

It will take some time anyway, but the Nginx version of WordPress will probably be the first app from us on the store.

jonashartmann

please - this would be THE APP OF THE YEAR!! I would use cloudron for my 200 hosting clients if this would be possible with open lite speed.

marcusquinn

@jonashartmann We found we could get Wordpress running pretty efficiently with some techniques detailed by Dave Hilditch here:

https://www.wpintense.com

As an example, there's over 100 plugins on our Wordpress & Woocommerce site here hosted on a Cloudron app:

https://brandlight.org
https://brandlight.org/the-pursuit-of-website-speed-is-almost-over-when-you-have-perceptibly-instant-page-loading-times-everywhere/
(Since that was written, we reproduced what Algolia does with an in-house developed ElasticSearch alternative, also hosted on Cloudron.)

MooCloud_Matt

@jonashartmann
The first MooCloud App that will be ported is WordPress + Nginx (that in many cases is even better than OLS), but we have OLS already working for many of our servers with cloudron.
It is just a question of porting it and publishing it.

We are working with cloudron to allow MooCloud Registry and apps to the AppStore but it is too early to promise any ETA.

robi

@marcusquinn said in OpenLiteSpeed Wordpress:

(Since that was written, we reproduced what Algolia does with an in-house developed ElasticSearch alternative, also hosted on Cloudron.)

Is there a how-to on that?

MooCloud_Matt

@robi said in OpenLiteSpeed Wordpress:

Is there a how-to on that?

Most likely yes.
And mostly is custom develop.

I think that we should be able to offer solution that are a good, not perfect, but fit for everyone.

marcusquinn

@robi It's based on this plugin: https://wordpress.org/plugins/elasticpress/. Plus some custom add-on plugins we wrote for our custom theme.

robi

@marcusquinn said in OpenLiteSpeed Wordpress:

@robi It's based on this plugin: https://wordpress.org/plugins/elasticpress/. Plus some custom add-on plugins we wrote for our custom theme.

Ah okay, that makes it a bit simpler. Does it work across subdomains?

Do you have https://github.com/10up/ElasticPress packaged for Cloudron?

Hmm, I didn't find an app request for it..

humptydumpty

@marcusquinn said in OpenLiteSpeed Wordpress:

We found we could get Wordpress running pretty efficiently with some techniques detailed by Dave Hilditch here:

https://www.wpintense.com

Are you using the Scalability Pro plugin or just his enhancement tips?

marcusquinn

@robi ElasticSearch, yes: https://git.cloudron.io/vladimir.d/elasticsearch

marcusquinn

@humptydumpty Yes, with these settings we found best to avoid issues or loss of features we want to use.:

humptydumpty

@marcusquinn Thank you for sharing your settings!

robi

@marcusquinn said in OpenLiteSpeed Wordpress:

@robi ElasticSearch, yes: https://git.cloudron.io/vladimir.d/elasticsearch

So you point the ElasticPress plugin directly at ElasticSearch?

Or is ElasticPress a separate packaged install?

marcusquinn

@robi ElasticPress is the plugin, that has a setting for pointing at the packaged ElasticSearch Cloudron App.

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OpenLiteSpeed Wordpress