Best privacy chat apps

[jdaviescoates]

@marcusquinn I think Signal has the best privacy and security. But yeah, I've never used the desktop app, just the mobile app.

[mehdi]

@marcusquinn From a security and privacy standpoint, I would only consider Signal and Matrix. Both are pretty usable in my opinion.

I also heard good things, from a security perspective, about Olvid. No idea how good is the interface though.

[jdaviescoates]

@mehdi said in Best privacy chat apps:

Olvid

Hadn't heard of that before, sounds good:
https://www.olvid.io/en/

I note it doesn't have the phone number/ email address issue Signal and other apps have that @humptydumpty mentions above.

I also note that Olvid isn't (yet) open source:
https://olvid.io/faq/is-olvid-code-open-source/

But the technology it's powered by is:
https://olvid.io/faq/is-olvid-technology-open-source/

[robi]

@jdaviescoates it seems they are limiting voice calls with a subscription.

[rmdes]

@mehdi what do you think of Wire compared to Telegram ?

[mehdi]

@rmdes End-to-End encryption, not re-implementing their own crypto primitives, using a well known protocol, open-source ... On first glance, looks good.

[rmdes]

@mehdi I Also like that it allow people to get in touch and use the entire feature set without ever exchanging phone numbers

[murgero]

Matrix + Element is probably the best privacy focused app if I am being honest. Next is XMPP (With OMEMO or PGP).

Client side, each have multiple apps for Windows, Linux, Mac, iOS, and Android (Not to even mention Web Apps).

Matrix is probably the best option of the two as by default it can federate with other servers securely.

[marcusquinn]

Thoughts on Rocket.Chat security?

[mehdi]

@marcusquinn It's self hosted. So, on that point, better than most ^^ Otherwise, there is no special security feature, no end-to-end encryption, ...

[d19dotca]

@humptydumpty Not sure if that was really meant to be directed at me or not haha because yeah, I agree with your points on the "I don't have anything to hide" part, that's been something I've argued for years with people and fully support that it should never be about if someone has something to hide or not.

What do you prefer to use over Signal though in that case if it doesn't quite past muster for you? Always open to alternatives.

[marcusquinn]

@mehdi Cool, thanks, the scope of this post is for all chat apps, not just CLoudron ones, but insight into the Cloudron ones is always handy.

I guess the hope is to find what works best for family & friends to try and get them moving to that doesn't involve self-hosting or cost because frankly that's the benchmark from the no-so-private competition.

[marcusquinn]

Everyone here has A LOT to hide. If you're a Sys Admin, all those keys to kingdoms you have could yield great value or damage in the wrong hands.

Doesn't matter how secure we are if social-engineering can get to our stuff through our peers.

Aside from that, hopefully my blog post above explains a lot of other things to think about for how all our peers devices can gather data on us no matter how secure we are personally, so it will only be a whole society movement that plugs those holes, and I'm sure many here are happy to help friends and family do that if it is the seeds for a greater migration.

[d19dotca]

@marcusquinn Agreed. Everyone who says they have nothing to hide doesn't quite realize the potential that can come from companies having even just basic details on you.

[marcusquinn]

@d19dotca The most obvious one now is censorship, since your view of the curated online world is tailored to show you what you are most likely to engage with, and we're all seeing a different view. Add to that the profiling on how influential you are, so targeting the most influential people then turns them into propaganda gophers. We're all in database tables somewhere now as a statistically significant type of some kind or another.

[ruihildt]

The most perverse is that if you know you're watched, then you change your behaviour instead of behaving like yourself.

[humptydumpty]

@d19dotca lol no, it wasn't directed at you but that argument is what I'm used to hear when I try to educate my family and friends about data privacy. My first choice would be Matrix and Signal would be my second. But, I don't use my phone except for calling, 2FA TOTP, and email (Mail iOS app) so I never really bothered to look into it that much. I practically live on my PC so securing Windows (MS is probably the worst offender of them all) is my main concern. I'm forced to use Windows because of the CAD/CAM software that I have. I had no luck running them with Wine but I do have Pop!_OS on different drive and a stack of raspberry pi 4's for NAS (OMV5), PiVPN, PiHole, and one dedicated for fooling around with

[humptydumpty]

@d19dotca Yes! I scared the living **** out of my family when I asked them to search their full name to see what they come up with. Every few months, I do this and go through the removal process on all these sites for my whole family. It's a PITA since they try to hide the opt-out form but you learn their tricks and the process becomes easier. I wouldn't be surprised if these sites were all operated by the same scummy group because their websites have a lot of similarities with each other.

[A Former User]

@humptydumpty said in Best privacy chat apps:

I'm forced to use Windows because of the CAD/CAM software that I have

Hope this helps!
https://alternativeto.net/tag/cad/?license=opensource&platform=linux

[ianhyzy]

I would encourage you to give matrix another shot - it's gotten a lot better on mobile. My only remaining two gripes are the lack of multi-account support and the way threading works (I prefer Slack's method)