What's coming in 6.0 (take 2)
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@ei8fdb said in What's coming in 6.0 (take 2):
Hi @girish I'd like to help with this if you're interested.
Thanks for opening that gitlab issue! We won't do it for the current release atleast since there is massive UI surgery going on already for translations. Let's pick this one up after Cloudron 6 release in a separate thread.
@girish Absolutely. I wasn't suggesting to implement it "now-now". More the case of suggesting to gather data earlier (could be done at any time really), so that when it came to thinking about implementation, you had some data to base decisions on.
To get enough data I'd suggest running the research for ~ 2-3 weeks. Analysis would be much quicker ~days. I'll happy to help with both.
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Another brief update:
- We added auth wall functionality that apps without any notion of login can use
- i18n is mostly done, just lots of testing before we let translators do their work. @nebulon can give some updates on how the language is selected etc.
- We added
httpPathsfunctionality so that @MooCloud_Matt can work on his OLS app. Also, see https://forum.cloudron.io/topic/3755/apache-ols-and-nginx-custom-benchmarks/5 - Reworked a lot of the internal dns stuff, so that we can have apps as dns servers (ad blocker apps)
- solr fts search was merged today.
Looks like we are set for a release next week!
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Another brief update:
- We added auth wall functionality that apps without any notion of login can use
- i18n is mostly done, just lots of testing before we let translators do their work. @nebulon can give some updates on how the language is selected etc.
- We added
httpPathsfunctionality so that @MooCloud_Matt can work on his OLS app. Also, see https://forum.cloudron.io/topic/3755/apache-ols-and-nginx-custom-benchmarks/5 - Reworked a lot of the internal dns stuff, so that we can have apps as dns servers (ad blocker apps)
- solr fts search was merged today.
Looks like we are set for a release next week!
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@girish Did the TURN server API auth stuff make it in for Nextcloud high performance backend'ness?
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Another brief update:
- We added auth wall functionality that apps without any notion of login can use
- i18n is mostly done, just lots of testing before we let translators do their work. @nebulon can give some updates on how the language is selected etc.
- We added
httpPathsfunctionality so that @MooCloud_Matt can work on his OLS app. Also, see https://forum.cloudron.io/topic/3755/apache-ols-and-nginx-custom-benchmarks/5 - Reworked a lot of the internal dns stuff, so that we can have apps as dns servers (ad blocker apps)
- solr fts search was merged today.
Looks like we are set for a release next week!
@girish said in What's coming in 6.0 (take 2):
solr fts search was merged today.
This is great... but I'm intrigued to how exactly we'll be able to take advantage of it e.g. to search email/ files?
Will Cloudron Roundcube/ Rainloop/ Sogo, Nextcloud Mail somehow automagically take advantage of solr? or what?
I guess the same applies to Nextcloud files too - will search files on there somehow benefit from the power of solr?
Thanks!
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@girish said in What's coming in 6.0 (take 2):
solr fts search was merged today.
This is great... but I'm intrigued to how exactly we'll be able to take advantage of it e.g. to search email/ files?
Will Cloudron Roundcube/ Rainloop/ Sogo, Nextcloud Mail somehow automagically take advantage of solr? or what?
I guess the same applies to Nextcloud files too - will search files on there somehow benefit from the power of solr?
Thanks!
@jdaviescoates said in What's coming in 6.0 (take 2):
Will Cloudron Roundcube/ Rainloop/ Sogo, Nextcloud Mail somehow automagically take advantage of solr? or what?
That's the idea, yes. To keep excitement in control, from my testing, the fts has real benefits only if you lots of email (like say 2GB and more). You also need a lot of RAM to run solr (like 3GB). The feature is turned off by default for this reason.
I guess the same applies to Nextcloud files too - will search files on there somehow benefit from the power of solr?
Unfortunately, no. I think there was this nextcloud app called nextant back in the day which used solr. That app was however deprecated and they moved to this fulltextsearch app. The fulltextsearch app can have multiple backends but afaik there is only an elastic search backend (someone has to write a solr backend).
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@jdaviescoates said in What's coming in 6.0 (take 2):
Will Cloudron Roundcube/ Rainloop/ Sogo, Nextcloud Mail somehow automagically take advantage of solr? or what?
That's the idea, yes. To keep excitement in control, from my testing, the fts has real benefits only if you lots of email (like say 2GB and more). You also need a lot of RAM to run solr (like 3GB). The feature is turned off by default for this reason.
I guess the same applies to Nextcloud files too - will search files on there somehow benefit from the power of solr?
Unfortunately, no. I think there was this nextcloud app called nextant back in the day which used solr. That app was however deprecated and they moved to this fulltextsearch app. The fulltextsearch app can have multiple backends but afaik there is only an elastic search backend (someone has to write a solr backend).
@girish said in What's coming in 6.0 (take 2):
That's the idea, yes. To keep excitement in control, from my testing, the fts has real benefits only if you lots of email (like say 2GB and more). You also need a lot of RAM to run solr (like 3GB). The feature is turned off by default for this reason.
OK, thanks.
I guess part of what I'm asking is does having solr enabled some allow for using some Gmail-style search operators like from: to: in:sent has:attachment etc?
I'm guessing perhaps not and that such things would need to be built in/ added to the webmail clients themselves? But I'm unclear
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@girish said in What's coming in 6.0 (take 2):
That's the idea, yes. To keep excitement in control, from my testing, the fts has real benefits only if you lots of email (like say 2GB and more). You also need a lot of RAM to run solr (like 3GB). The feature is turned off by default for this reason.
OK, thanks.
I guess part of what I'm asking is does having solr enabled some allow for using some Gmail-style search operators like from: to: in:sent has:attachment etc?
I'm guessing perhaps not and that such things would need to be built in/ added to the webmail clients themselves? But I'm unclear
@jdaviescoates said in What's coming in 6.0 (take 2):
I'm guessing perhaps not and that such things would need to be built in/ added to the webmail clients themselves? But I'm unclear
Right, those features like operators have to come from mail clients themselves. Note that solr is actually not adding anything new to what is already there. It's just making search faster internally by having an index.
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@jdaviescoates said in What's coming in 6.0 (take 2):
Will Cloudron Roundcube/ Rainloop/ Sogo, Nextcloud Mail somehow automagically take advantage of solr? or what?
That's the idea, yes. To keep excitement in control, from my testing, the fts has real benefits only if you lots of email (like say 2GB and more). You also need a lot of RAM to run solr (like 3GB). The feature is turned off by default for this reason.
I guess the same applies to Nextcloud files too - will search files on there somehow benefit from the power of solr?
Unfortunately, no. I think there was this nextcloud app called nextant back in the day which used solr. That app was however deprecated and they moved to this fulltextsearch app. The fulltextsearch app can have multiple backends but afaik there is only an elastic search backend (someone has to write a solr backend).
@girish said in What's coming in 6.0 (take 2):
Unfortunately, no. I think there was this nextcloud app called nextant back in the day which used solr. That app was however deprecated and they moved to this fulltextsearch app. The fulltextsearch app can have multiple backends but afaik there is only an elastic search backend (someone has to write a solr backend).
Looks like someone started to make one, but there hasn't been any updates since Jun 2019
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@jdaviescoates said in What's coming in 6.0 (take 2):
I'm guessing perhaps not and that such things would need to be built in/ added to the webmail clients themselves? But I'm unclear
Right, those features like operators have to come from mail clients themselves. Note that solr is actually not adding anything new to what is already there. It's just making search faster internally by having an index.
@girish said in What's coming in 6.0 (take 2):
Right, those features like operators have to come from mail clients themselves. Note that solr is actually not adding anything new to what is already there. It's just making search faster internally by having an index.
Thanks. I so wish there were better open webmail clients. Mailpile does most of what I want but development has seemingly largely stalled
Roundcube at least has these:
from: to: cc: bcc: subject: body: -
@girish said in What's coming in 6.0 (take 2):
Right, those features like operators have to come from mail clients themselves. Note that solr is actually not adding anything new to what is already there. It's just making search faster internally by having an index.
Thanks. I so wish there were better open webmail clients. Mailpile does most of what I want but development has seemingly largely stalled
Roundcube at least has these:
from: to: cc: bcc: subject: body:@jdaviescoates
for Roundcube, the others didn't pass my short attention span for acceptable daily-drivers 
Web Design https://www.evergreen.je
Development https://brandlight.org
Life https://marcusquinn.com -
@jdaviescoates
for Roundcube, the others didn't pass my short attention span for acceptable daily-drivers @marcusquinn Nothing to do with 6.0 but since webmail distracted, I think EspoCRM is worth a mention as a webmail client, which I'm intending to give a whirl soon. Don't know how performant the search will be in that but will share feedback as I do.
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@jdaviescoates
for Roundcube, the others didn't pass my short attention span for acceptable daily-drivers @marcusquinn said in What's coming in 6.0 (take 2):
@jdaviescoates for Roundcube, the others didn't pass my short attention span for acceptable daily-drivers
It does seem the best of bad bunch (it's the second most popular after Mailpile on https://selfhosted.libhunt.com/categories/1665-webmail-clients ), but frustrating that e.g. it seemingly can't be used to set-up filters and so need to use Rainloop for that. The state of open source webmail really is bad
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@marcusquinn said in What's coming in 6.0 (take 2):
@jdaviescoates for Roundcube, the others didn't pass my short attention span for acceptable daily-drivers
It does seem the best of bad bunch (it's the second most popular after Mailpile on https://selfhosted.libhunt.com/categories/1665-webmail-clients ), but frustrating that e.g. it seemingly can't be used to set-up filters and so need to use Rainloop for that. The state of open source webmail really is bad
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I use rainloop as I use nextcloud contacts and calendars and it made sense for my users to have their webmail in the same app. But also not have to deal with the absolute garbage that is Nextcloud Mail.
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I use rainloop as I use nextcloud contacts and calendars and it made sense for my users to have their webmail in the same app. But also not have to deal with the absolute garbage that is Nextcloud Mail.
@atrilahiji said in What's coming in 6.0 (take 2):
the absolute garbage that is Nextcloud Mail.
To be fair, it is pretty new and getting better. One day it might even be the best! (but not today).
I can't really remember properly, but I think it recently added a way to have multiple identities and to easily switch between them, something which is missing from some of the others (I forget which).
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@atrilahiji said in What's coming in 6.0 (take 2):
the absolute garbage that is Nextcloud Mail.
To be fair, it is pretty new and getting better. One day it might even be the best! (but not today).
I can't really remember properly, but I think it recently added a way to have multiple identities and to easily switch between them, something which is missing from some of the others (I forget which).
@jdaviescoates True. One thing that was frustrating was 1) the lack of filters and 2) no way to integrate with cloudron mail like the Rainloop app in Nextcloud.
Also there was a point where new emails just stopped coming through on there. Got mad and switched.
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@jdaviescoates True. One thing that was frustrating was 1) the lack of filters and 2) no way to integrate with cloudron mail like the Rainloop app in Nextcloud.
Also there was a point where new emails just stopped coming through on there. Got mad and switched.
@atrilahiji said in What's coming in 6.0 (take 2):
- no way to integrate with cloudron mail like the Rainloop app in Nextcloud.
On that specific point, Nextcloud Mail does fine in my experience if the users have their cloudron email as their primary email, then you can do similar to the following (my.demo.com used in place of mail server name):
So it can depend a lot on your setup, but I'll freely give you that no sieve support is incredibly frustrating, plus I constantly can't find features that I feel like should be there, and even when it's "working" the visual design is so weird to me that things still feel wrong. I mean, I'd give it like a 4/10 and "would not recommend to a friend" but for some users/clients...it's evidently good enough?
The rolling average in my experience is definitely hot garbage, but sometimes it's acceptable garbage.
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@atrilahiji said in What's coming in 6.0 (take 2):
- no way to integrate with cloudron mail like the Rainloop app in Nextcloud.
On that specific point, Nextcloud Mail does fine in my experience if the users have their cloudron email as their primary email, then you can do similar to the following (my.demo.com used in place of mail server name):
So it can depend a lot on your setup, but I'll freely give you that no sieve support is incredibly frustrating, plus I constantly can't find features that I feel like should be there, and even when it's "working" the visual design is so weird to me that things still feel wrong. I mean, I'd give it like a 4/10 and "would not recommend to a friend" but for some users/clients...it's evidently good enough?
The rolling average in my experience is definitely hot garbage, but sometimes it's acceptable garbage.
@jimcavoli Great tip!!
@girish Worth making these Mail app settings default on all Nextcloud instances? My understanding is they wouldn't take effect unless "Apply and create/update for all users" was clicked, so should be safe for existing installs.
Also, worth adding to the docs given it's a Sys Admin time-saver for onboarding the Mail app, albeit as mostly useful just inside Nextcloud usage.
