Maps on Cloudron - Feedback on Beta

[LoudLemur]

Well done on getting this into testing, johannes

When you have a chance to setup the documentation page, could we please have a section there roughly indicating the sizes of the various regions, if we want to download those? Tiles for maps can be enormous, depending on the resolution needed.

If we could have a tool where we set the region, country, resolution (eg 1-18 tiles) needed and the app would then install those tiles, that would be great.

[timconsidine]

This will help on comparing apps. Currently I prefer Facilmap packaged as custom app.
But that maybe is due to lack of knowledge about Maps.

[jdaviescoates]

@LoudLemur said in Maps on Cloudron - Feedback on Beta:

Well done on getting this into testing, johannes

I feel I must of missed something. Getting what exactly into testing?

@timconsidine said in Maps on Cloudron - Feedback on Beta:

Currently I prefer Facilmap packaged as custom app.

I'd really like that to get into the App Store!

[jdaviescoates]

said in Maps on Cloudron - Feedback on Beta:

I feel I must of missed something. Getting what exactly into testing?

Ah, this:

But what app is that? I can't see any announcement post about it

[nebulon]

Nice, I was waiting a bit for someone to find and comment on this. I didn't do any announcement for it and just silently published it over christmas. The app is basically a tileserver for vector tiles, which I just did on the side. Since I am using this on my personal Cloudron for some time, I thought why not make it available for more people.

Facilmap is using mostly public tile servers, while mine here will deliver map files directly from your cloudron instead. It comes with a base map of the world, but lets you also download the whole map in full detail, if you want to using that download cli tool.

Happy to hear any feedback on it

[timconsidine]

@nebulon said in Maps on Cloudron - Feedback on Beta:

Facilmap is using mostly public tile servers, while mine here will deliver map files directly from your cloudron instead

Good distinction and could sway the decision.

[jdaviescoates]

Facilmap is still a great app that'd be great to have in the App store!

[timconsidine]

Small feedback :

1. the app should have POSTINSTALL.md to explain about map files, and download process.
   If only because clicking to zoom on location reveals no map content without a download at default zoom level, zooming out then displays a "base layer"
2. nothing secure in the app but with no auth it becomes a public resource.
3. FacilMap seems to have a few more functions, but they are 'nice-to-have' rather than essential, so Maps local tiles can make it preferable for some
4. app dashboard documentation goes to 404. Not important really, but could be good place to put tile download info
5. Maps downloaded tiles could be a killer point in terms of preference, but also in terms of killing the user's cloudron with disk full. Could be important as so many cloudron users seem to have small disk deployments. So info (even approx) about disk storage needed would be useful, rather than trial and error.
6. the available regions to download are large. Maybe not possible but would be good to narrow to a country. I am in UK. I have to download Europe. But I probably don't want to fill my disk with Romania (nothing wrong with Romania, just random example).
7. download Europe failed :

Downloading for: europe
Source: https://build.protomaps.com/20251215.pmtiles
Region: /app/code/continents/europe.geojson
Output: /app/data/mapdata/europe.pmtiles

fetching 888 dirs, 888 chunks, 25 requests
/usr/bin/download: line 86:    74 Killed                  ./pmtiles extract "$SOURCE_URL" --minzoom=7 --region "$REGION_FILE" "$OUTPUT_FILE"

Failed

[timconsidine]

There's a small dilemma about Maps and Facilmap.
Both useful utilities, but when using a map, a very common next thought is "and how do I get there from here / from X".
Neither have route-mapping and I appreciate this could be a massive complication.
Just talking out loud to myself.

[jdaviescoates]

I'm pretty sure @nebulon has recently-ish mentioned some route mapping thing too.

I'm keen on Facilmap because I want to do things like create a map of all projects in West Dorset that are helping to reduce pressure on planetary boundaries and/ or improve human wellbeing. etc. No need for route mapping for such a use case.

While we're on mapping, I've not had a play around yet but this just came out https://murmurmaps.murmurations.network/ as the latest offering from the Murmurations Network

[nebulon]

Yes routing is a main usecase and, maybe in my next vaction I might be able to add transitous.org / motis routing (for public transport only, as I have no car). Any contributions are very welcome of course!

[timconsidine]

@jdaviescoates yes Leaflet (which Facilmap uses) is good for that.

Murmurations - cool !

Annoyingly I just uninstalled a custom app I made using Leaflet. I shall have to find it.

[timconsidine]

@jdaviescoates Facilmap is in CCAI Personal and hosted CCAI. or you can do manual install with the pre-built docker image tcmbp132021/cloudron-facilmap:v1.0.0

Yes, it would be nice to see this in AppStore as an option.

[jdaviescoates]

@timconsidine thanks, I've not played with CCAI yet and atm prefer to just use officially supported app. It's cool though, good effort.

[timconsidine]

@jdaviescoates understood, ccai and custom images are not for everyone.

[nebulon]

To update everyone here wondering, I have delisted the app now in the public app listing, since it is merely a toy at this point and we don't want to spend company time on this, as there are lots more important issues to work on. Anyone curious can still get it by visiting https://my.<yourcloudrondomain>/#/appstore/io.cloudron.maps and will receive updates in case I find some spare time to do one

However, this did raise the point of discussion once again, how we can enable anyone to make app packages more accessible for everyone using Cloudron. In the end just because I can publish apps, it is not good for us to be the sole gatekeepers here. We are already discussing how to solve the situation here, to enable everyone to publish such projects and equally important, make it possible for apps to be updatable. Just haven't outlined exactly how to do this yet, but it will come.

[timconsidine]

@nebulon thanks for the update.

May I take the opportunity to make 2 requests and a comment :

1. the "log jam" on custom apps can easily be solved by building in to the Cloudron facility something equivalent to CCAI (open hosted custom app installer), or more specifically CCAI-P ("closed" Personal Edition installer). The process to install a custom app from a git repo link and pre-built cloudron-ajusted Docker image is relatively trivial for techs/devs like yourselves. An AppDev who is more pro than me can easily accomplish it.

• The custom apps catalogue is maybe something you don't want to build into Cloudron, but I would be happy to host it, with suitable links for the user to use in their Cloudron equivalent of CCAI-P.

• although I built it and am therefore responsible, I don't really like the open CCAI, because it is more complex and forces users to enter their creds on a 3rd party site, which is always a little uncomfortable.
  But CCAI-P or the Cloudron re-engineered version is a very different situation. Even just adopting CCAI-P into the AppStore, maybe as an interim step, would be a huge leap forward, with relatively minimal effort from Cloudron team.

• happy to make any changes to CCAI-P which Cloudron team dictate to facilitate its adoption to AppStore

2. Specifically about your Maps package, slightly sad to hear it is suspended for now. It is nice. But as an alternative for those wanting something similar, may I pitch Facilmap - already packaged for Cloudron and available as a custom app - as a candidate for early adoption into the AppStore.

3. Final comment : there has been occasional unhappiness that people cannot deploy apps in a docker-compose fashion.
   I understand and actually agree with this "restriction" - the benefits of Cloudron stability etc are too important to sacrifice.
   But this unhappiness pops up occasionally and can be very largely addressed by implementing something like CCAI-P into the AppStore or into the platform.
   All true Cloudron fans want Cloudron to grow, and I think this would be a big part of doing so.

After that long pitch, I am very glad that you said the topic is under active discussion, and that even the initial CCAI was not stamped down immediately as being unacceptable, which I would have understood.

I look forward to news on the way forward, acknowledging that Cloudron team have 101 other things on their plate.

[LoudLemur]

@nebulon Routing on maps is just begging for AI.

How about it: by the end of 2026, there will be an AI powered app or something like that to sort these sorts of things on Open Street Maps. If they make a good one, there will shortly follow one augmented with public transport time-tables...

[robi]

This is how one guy mods OSRM for his own use case: