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  1. Cloudron Forum
  2. Rocket.Chat
  3. Indecisive : rocket.chat or matrix ?

Indecisive : rocket.chat or matrix ?

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved Rocket.Chat
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    • timconsidineT timconsidine

      I already have matrix/element installed, and generally use it as client to a few matrix groups, and only small amount of individual messaging.

      I want to get off Viber, and wondering whether to move my personal messaging to Matrix or to Riot.

      If I understand correctly, friends/family would need to download Element or another if I go Matrix. Would there be more options for them if I go Riot ?

      Trying to understand form respective websites, but I am not seeing clearly.

      Also those here who use Rocket.Chat : is it really mostly/only for messaging, or do you use the audio/video chat, and is it as good as Jitsi ?

      Sorry for rubbish high-level questions.

      murgeroM Offline
      murgeroM Offline
      murgero
      App Dev
      wrote on last edited by
      #16

      @timconsidine Just to note: riot is a client for matrix. You can consider them the same. But I assume you actually meant to type "rocket.chat"

      --
      https://urgero.org
      ~ Professional Nerd. Freelance Programmer. ~

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      • marcusquinnM Offline
        marcusquinnM Offline
        marcusquinn
        wrote on last edited by
        #17

        Rocket Chat for business and orgs.

        Signal for family & friends that aren't dimwits.

        Been through all this research and testing for so long, the rest are all clumsy, buggy and more difficult than necessary IMHO.

        Web Design https://www.evergreen.je
        Development https://brandlight.org
        Life https://marcusquinn.com

        timconsidineT 1 Reply Last reply
        3
        • marcusquinnM marcusquinn

          Rocket Chat for business and orgs.

          Signal for family & friends that aren't dimwits.

          Been through all this research and testing for so long, the rest are all clumsy, buggy and more difficult than necessary IMHO.

          timconsidineT Offline
          timconsidineT Offline
          timconsidine
          App Dev
          wrote on last edited by
          #18

          @marcusquinn nice summary !
          Yeah, it's probably a kinda FAQ thing almost. Sorry.

          Main problem : most of my family/friends and business contacts are dimwits. Including those working in IT ! 😉

          robiR 1 Reply Last reply
          1
          • timconsidineT timconsidine

            @marcusquinn nice summary !
            Yeah, it's probably a kinda FAQ thing almost. Sorry.

            Main problem : most of my family/friends and business contacts are dimwits. Including those working in IT ! 😉

            robiR Offline
            robiR Offline
            robi
            wrote on last edited by
            #19

            @timconsidine then they won't figure out the shortcomings of Mattermost for you to have trouble 😉

            Conscious tech

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            • marcusquinnM Offline
              marcusquinnM Offline
              marcusquinn
              wrote on last edited by marcusquinn
              #20

              Zulip looks like it could be promising for mixed use, but Cloudron App development seems to have hit capacity, so I don't expect to see it here any time soon:

              • https://forum.cloudron.io/topic/1220/zulip-powerful-open-source-group-chat

              Web Design https://www.evergreen.je
              Development https://brandlight.org
              Life https://marcusquinn.com

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              • scookeS Offline
                scookeS Offline
                scooke
                wrote on last edited by
                #21

                Mattermost is nice, but has the same feel as Rocket.Chat. I was just checking mine out again and see that the Channels, or rooms, would be a nice way to silo your social circles, and they would be none the wiser that there are other convos going on. That might be nice, but then you'd also have to jump from Channel to channel. You might post a response to something in the wrong channel.

                BUT, even though I promoted Matrix/Element, one weakness stands out for me (for M/E), and that is how it handles its security. Now, what follows may be off a bit in details but let me try: You can ask Matrix/Element to encrypt the convos end to end, but it gives several warnings that if you lose the key or other sign-in mode, you lose the convo. Ok, fair enough, I'm certain I won't, but what about your chattees? Also, this higher security means, for me at least, that when I go to sign in by another device, I have to scan QR codes and a few other steps to ensure it is me. In my early days I had already signed out of the main device, and so when trying to sign in on a new one, there was no way for me to authenticate, or prove, that the new device was me because it wanted the original device to approve it. I can't remember why I gave up, but I just re-installed and kept that in mind for next time. So, a mess-up like that could really screw your efforts up. And those with whom you are chatting. I guess NOT turning on encryption is one way to avoid that, but, that option is touted as one of the major benefits of Matrix/Element.

                Since we're talking dimwits here, Matrix/Element might not be the best option.

                Plus, RC and Mattermost both have plugins you can add, making them rather handy.

                A life lived in fear is a life half-lived

                timconsidineT 1 Reply Last reply
                2
                • scookeS scooke

                  Mattermost is nice, but has the same feel as Rocket.Chat. I was just checking mine out again and see that the Channels, or rooms, would be a nice way to silo your social circles, and they would be none the wiser that there are other convos going on. That might be nice, but then you'd also have to jump from Channel to channel. You might post a response to something in the wrong channel.

                  BUT, even though I promoted Matrix/Element, one weakness stands out for me (for M/E), and that is how it handles its security. Now, what follows may be off a bit in details but let me try: You can ask Matrix/Element to encrypt the convos end to end, but it gives several warnings that if you lose the key or other sign-in mode, you lose the convo. Ok, fair enough, I'm certain I won't, but what about your chattees? Also, this higher security means, for me at least, that when I go to sign in by another device, I have to scan QR codes and a few other steps to ensure it is me. In my early days I had already signed out of the main device, and so when trying to sign in on a new one, there was no way for me to authenticate, or prove, that the new device was me because it wanted the original device to approve it. I can't remember why I gave up, but I just re-installed and kept that in mind for next time. So, a mess-up like that could really screw your efforts up. And those with whom you are chatting. I guess NOT turning on encryption is one way to avoid that, but, that option is touted as one of the major benefits of Matrix/Element.

                  Since we're talking dimwits here, Matrix/Element might not be the best option.

                  Plus, RC and Mattermost both have plugins you can add, making them rather handy.

                  timconsidineT Offline
                  timconsidineT Offline
                  timconsidine
                  App Dev
                  wrote on last edited by timconsidine
                  #22

                  @scooke : that's actually very important, so thank you. I was thinking through along similar lines.

                  I was reminded of it because I didn't yet find a Matrix client which supports multiple servers. So on my side I would be forced to have a "work Matrix" and "personal Matrix" app if I have them on multiple servers. Not ideal.

                  Of course I can just have them on same server for my ease of use, but then auth/re-auth thing is a bit of PITA (although I understand why it is needed).

                  L 1 Reply Last reply
                  0
                  • timconsidineT timconsidine

                    @scooke : that's actually very important, so thank you. I was thinking through along similar lines.

                    I was reminded of it because I didn't yet find a Matrix client which supports multiple servers. So on my side I would be forced to have a "work Matrix" and "personal Matrix" app if I have them on multiple servers. Not ideal.

                    Of course I can just have them on same server for my ease of use, but then auth/re-auth thing is a bit of PITA (although I understand why it is needed).

                    L Offline
                    L Offline
                    LoudLemur
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #23

                    @timconsidine Did you look at Pleroma?

                    https://pleroma.social

                    timconsidineT 1 Reply Last reply
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                    • L LoudLemur

                      @timconsidine Did you look at Pleroma?

                      https://pleroma.social

                      timconsidineT Offline
                      timconsidineT Offline
                      timconsidine
                      App Dev
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #24

                      @loudlemur hmmmm, not really.
                      It's an interesting alternative approach
                      Really I just want a WnatsApp/Viber/Telegram/Signal type of app which is self-hosted and has google-free android client.
                      Maybe I will have to consider Session.

                      marcusquinnM 1 Reply Last reply
                      0
                      • timconsidineT timconsidine

                        @loudlemur hmmmm, not really.
                        It's an interesting alternative approach
                        Really I just want a WnatsApp/Viber/Telegram/Signal type of app which is self-hosted and has google-free android client.
                        Maybe I will have to consider Session.

                        marcusquinnM Offline
                        marcusquinnM Offline
                        marcusquinn
                        wrote on last edited by marcusquinn
                        #25

                        @timconsidine Session doesn't have Voice & Video, and it's a bit of a nuisance to get people swapping IDs.

                        Seriously, I'd go with Rocket Chat for businesses/orgs. Signal for personal. Then, look at alternatives to see if they are better.

                        I hate wasted time, and I do not believe this approach would waste yours. Be mindful of analysis paralysis too, my recommendations come from experience to save you from mostly the same.

                        Web Design https://www.evergreen.je
                        Development https://brandlight.org
                        Life https://marcusquinn.com

                        L timconsidineT 2 Replies Last reply
                        2
                        • marcusquinnM marcusquinn

                          @timconsidine Session doesn't have Voice & Video, and it's a bit of a nuisance to get people swapping IDs.

                          Seriously, I'd go with Rocket Chat for businesses/orgs. Signal for personal. Then, look at alternatives to see if they are better.

                          I hate wasted time, and I do not believe this approach would waste yours. Be mindful of analysis paralysis too, my recommendations come from experience to save you from mostly the same.

                          L Offline
                          L Offline
                          LoudLemur
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #26

                          @marcusquinn said in Indecisive : rocket.chat or matrix ?:

                          @timconsidine Session doesn't have Voice & Video, and it's a bit of a nuisance to get people swapping IDs.

                          Seriously, I'd go with Rocket Chat for businesses/orgs. Signal for personal. Then, look at alternatives to see if they are better.

                          I hate wasted time, and I do not believe this approach would waste yours. Be mindful of analysis paralysis too, my recommendations come from experience to save you from mostly the same.

                          Session is soon to start support for Lokinet, which will allow video streaming, so keep an eye on it. There is currently some rudimentary support for voice on Session too. (You can press a button, record sound, and it saves the sound file in a Session message.

                          Telegram sends all its stuff through a centralized, proprietary server, and requires a phone for registration and Twitter account for technical support.

                          1 Reply Last reply
                          1
                          • marcusquinnM marcusquinn

                            @timconsidine Session doesn't have Voice & Video, and it's a bit of a nuisance to get people swapping IDs.

                            Seriously, I'd go with Rocket Chat for businesses/orgs. Signal for personal. Then, look at alternatives to see if they are better.

                            I hate wasted time, and I do not believe this approach would waste yours. Be mindful of analysis paralysis too, my recommendations come from experience to save you from mostly the same.

                            timconsidineT Offline
                            timconsidineT Offline
                            timconsidine
                            App Dev
                            wrote on last edited by timconsidine
                            #27

                            @marcusquinn : yes, possibly
                            certainly will be trialling rocket chat.

                            The real problem - all of my own making - is that I am seeking to de-google and most clients for messaging systems are GSF.
                            Apart from Matrix and Telegram.

                            analysis paralysis

                            love the expression, and yes a very real danger

                            EDIT : just noticed Signal have an APK on their site, and I was just checking FDroid & Aurora.

                            1 Reply Last reply
                            1
                            • timconsidineT timconsidine

                              I already have matrix/element installed, and generally use it as client to a few matrix groups, and only small amount of individual messaging.

                              I want to get off Viber, and wondering whether to move my personal messaging to Matrix or to Riot.

                              If I understand correctly, friends/family would need to download Element or another if I go Matrix. Would there be more options for them if I go Riot ?

                              Trying to understand form respective websites, but I am not seeing clearly.

                              Also those here who use Rocket.Chat : is it really mostly/only for messaging, or do you use the audio/video chat, and is it as good as Jitsi ?

                              Sorry for rubbish high-level questions.

                              D Offline
                              D Offline
                              DigitEgal
                              wrote on last edited by DigitEgal
                              #28

                              @timconsidine said in Indecisive : rocket.chat or matrix ?:

                              Also those here who use Rocket.Chat : is it really mostly/only for messaging, or do you use the audio/video chat, and is it as good as Jitsi ?

                              RocketChat is more like a Slack/Teams alternative. Also you can connect a Jitsi or BBB Server but that implementation is not perfect.
                              Also at other Features like the Nextcloud connection i see some problems.
                              BUT! Users love it since its easy to use and got Apps for all Devices.
                              This Dark Mode Theme works great aswell.-> github.com/DigitEgal/Rocket.Chat.Dark

                              Compared with Matrix - that looks and works much more clean.
                              Also there are implementations into everything. Element App for Nextcloud is perfectly working etc.
                              Much tend to use Matrix and even the Teamspeak 5 Beta is based on it.
                              I always prefer own Voiceservers and hate Discord because of its bad Quality.

                              Atleast its about the usecase:
                              -> If you only need a Chat for a small group or a few projects, RocketChat would be the thing to setup fast and use easy.
                              -> If you want to built up more and already planned to install nextcloud, onlyoffice, jitsi, openproject, etc... -> go for matrix since the Element App in Nextcloud is much more stable than RocketChat using Nextcloud for Data.

                              D 1 Reply Last reply
                              1
                              • D DigitEgal

                                @timconsidine said in Indecisive : rocket.chat or matrix ?:

                                Also those here who use Rocket.Chat : is it really mostly/only for messaging, or do you use the audio/video chat, and is it as good as Jitsi ?

                                RocketChat is more like a Slack/Teams alternative. Also you can connect a Jitsi or BBB Server but that implementation is not perfect.
                                Also at other Features like the Nextcloud connection i see some problems.
                                BUT! Users love it since its easy to use and got Apps for all Devices.
                                This Dark Mode Theme works great aswell.-> github.com/DigitEgal/Rocket.Chat.Dark

                                Compared with Matrix - that looks and works much more clean.
                                Also there are implementations into everything. Element App for Nextcloud is perfectly working etc.
                                Much tend to use Matrix and even the Teamspeak 5 Beta is based on it.
                                I always prefer own Voiceservers and hate Discord because of its bad Quality.

                                Atleast its about the usecase:
                                -> If you only need a Chat for a small group or a few projects, RocketChat would be the thing to setup fast and use easy.
                                -> If you want to built up more and already planned to install nextcloud, onlyoffice, jitsi, openproject, etc... -> go for matrix since the Element App in Nextcloud is much more stable than RocketChat using Nextcloud for Data.

                                D Offline
                                D Offline
                                DigitEgal
                                wrote on last edited by DigitEgal
                                #29
                                This post is deleted!
                                scookeS 1 Reply Last reply
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                                • D DigitEgal

                                  This post is deleted!

                                  scookeS Offline
                                  scookeS Offline
                                  scooke
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #30

                                  @digitegal This sounds like it'd be better as a new Topic.

                                  A life lived in fear is a life half-lived

                                  D 1 Reply Last reply
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                                  • scookeS scooke

                                    @digitegal This sounds like it'd be better as a new Topic.

                                    D Offline
                                    D Offline
                                    DigitEgal
                                    wrote on last edited by DigitEgal
                                    #31

                                    @scooke agree - [https://forum.cloudron.io/topic/5895/berty-brax-bytz](link url)

                                    scookeS 1 Reply Last reply
                                    1
                                    • D DigitEgal

                                      @scooke agree - [https://forum.cloudron.io/topic/5895/berty-brax-bytz](link url)

                                      scookeS Offline
                                      scookeS Offline
                                      scooke
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #32

                                      @digitegal If you post it, they will come.

                                      A life lived in fear is a life half-lived

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