Using the same domain across multiple Cloudrons

[jdaviescoates]

My primary domain for my primary Cloudron (hosted with Hetzner) is https://uniteddiversity.coop

But now want to add this domain to another Cloudron over on netcup too, just to set-up an Uptime Kuma status page at https://status.uniteddiversity.coop

I'm just wondering, might I hit any issues on my primary Cloudron if I go ahead and add https://uniteddiversity.coop as a domain on this other Cloudron?

I'm guessing perhaps I would have some problems if I went and added the TLS https://uniteddiversity.coop itself to the other Cloudron, but perhaps not if I just add the subdomain https://status.uniteddiversity.coop - is that right?

Thanks!

[girish]

@jdaviescoates said in Using the same domain across multiple Cloudrons:

I'm just wondering, might I hit any issues on my primary Cloudron if I go ahead and add https://uniteddiversity.coop as a domain on this other Cloudron?

It's not a problem. You can add the same domain in as many cloudrons as you like. This is supported and very well tested!. We add our cloudron.io domain over 6 separate cloudron instances. The code is written carefully to not trample over each other (this is also why the DKIM records are unique per cloudron instance). If you use DNS automation, when you install an app in a subdomain, it will also inform you that something else is there.

Edit: Making this more explicitly clear. The first domain you add in a Cloudron is called 'primary domain'. The primary domain has to be unique since the dashboard is made available on my.primary-domain.com.

So, I can create 4 cloudrons with primary domains cloudron.io, 1.cloudron.io, 2.cloudron.io, 3.cloudron.io . Let's say an app called git.cloudron.io exists on the first cloudron.

I can then add cloudron.io as a Domain into 1.cloudron.io, 2.cloudron.io, 3.cloudron.io. If I try to install an app into git.cloudron.io into any of these cloudron, you will see a "warning" that something else is already there.

[michaelpope]

@jdaviescoates While I haven't tested this myself, I believe the best option for this (assuming you are only going to run the one app on the other server) is using a zone name.

[micmc]

@jdaviescoates @michaelpope Yeah, technically speaking you could even set that as a CANONICAL name in your DNS provider, point it to your other server's IP address and add that canonical.domain.name to this other CR and it should work, again technically speaking. And no, there should be no interference between the two servers with the TLD.
I've not tested this however with CR, but yes, I did with some other online apps.

[girish]

@jdaviescoates said in Using the same domain across multiple Cloudrons:

I'm just wondering, might I hit any issues on my primary Cloudron if I go ahead and add https://uniteddiversity.coop as a domain on this other Cloudron?

It's not a problem. You can add the same domain in as many cloudrons as you like. This is supported and very well tested!. We add our cloudron.io domain over 6 separate cloudron instances. The code is written carefully to not trample over each other (this is also why the DKIM records are unique per cloudron instance). If you use DNS automation, when you install an app in a subdomain, it will also inform you that something else is there.

Edit: Making this more explicitly clear. The first domain you add in a Cloudron is called 'primary domain'. The primary domain has to be unique since the dashboard is made available on my.primary-domain.com.

So, I can create 4 cloudrons with primary domains cloudron.io, 1.cloudron.io, 2.cloudron.io, 3.cloudron.io . Let's say an app called git.cloudron.io exists on the first cloudron.

I can then add cloudron.io as a Domain into 1.cloudron.io, 2.cloudron.io, 3.cloudron.io. If I try to install an app into git.cloudron.io into any of these cloudron, you will see a "warning" that something else is already there.

[micmc]

@girish said in Using the same domain across multiple Cloudrons:

@jdaviescoates said in Using the same domain across multiple Cloudrons:

I'm just wondering, might I hit any issues on my primary Cloudron if I go ahead and add https://uniteddiversity.coop as a domain on this other Cloudron?

It's not a problem. You can add the same domain in as many cloudrons as you like. This is supported and very well tested!. We add our cloudron.io domain over 6 separate cloudron instances. The code is written carefully to not trample over each other (this is also why the DKIM records are unique per cloudron instance). If you use DNS automation, when you install an app in a subdomain, it will also inform you that something else is there.

Edit: Making this more explicitly clear. The first domain you add in a Cloudron is called 'primary domain'. The primary domain has to be unique since the dashboard is made available on my.primary-domain.com.

So, I can create 4 cloudrons with primary domains cloudron.io, 1.cloudron.io, 2.cloudron.io, 3.cloudron.io . Let's say an app called git.cloudron.io exists on the first cloudron.

I can then add cloudron.io as a Domain into 1.cloudron.io, 2.cloudron.io, 3.cloudron.io. If I try to install an app into git.cloudron.io into any of these cloudron, you will see a "warning" that something else is already there.

NICE topic, this information should be added to the docs at domains

[girish]

@micmc done! Just added a small note which links to this post for now.

[robi]

The trick is to know what to enter into the first domain setup screen on every subsequent x.cloudron.io.

A screenshot for that in the docs would be good.

While I did know and have installed such cloudrons using the same base TLD on different subdomains, I did not know you can run base TLD apps on the subTLD cloudron.
Ex:
app1.cloudron.io ==> my.on.cloudron.io

Makes sense since it's just another zone.

[humptydumpty]

@girish said in Using the same domain across multiple Cloudrons:

I can then add cloudron.io as a Domain into 1.cloudron.io, 2.cloudron.io, 3.cloudron.io. If I try to install an app into git.cloudron.io into any of these cloudron, you will see a "warning" that something else is already there.

So the warning occurs only if DNS is automated. What would happen with manual DNS and I were to install two apps on two Cloudrons using the same subdomain, ex: git.cloudron.io? Which app takes priority? I assume it's the Cloudron on the primary domain, right?

@everyone - Unrelated and a silly Q (sorry): Can I use DigitalOcean DNS for free even if I don't have any active services with them?

[girish]

@humptydumpty said in Using the same domain across multiple Cloudrons:

What would happen with manual DNS and I were to install two apps on two Cloudrons using the same subdomain, ex: git.cloudron.io? Which app takes priority?

When there is no DNS automation, the DNS cannot be changed (because Cloudron has no API credentials to change it). So, it will be whatever it was.

When you install the second app, if you don't manually change the DNS to the correct server, getting Let's Encrypt certificates will fail (as expected).

[girish]

@humptydumpty said in Using the same domain across multiple Cloudrons:

Can I use DigitalOcean DNS for free even if I don't have any active services with them?

Yes, it seems. https://www.digitalocean.com/community/questions/does-using-digitalocean-domain-name-servers-cost-extra-money

[micmc]

@girish @humptydumpty said in Using the same domain across multiple Cloudrons:

Can I use DigitalOcean DNS for free even if I don't have any active services with them?

Yes, it seems. https://www.digitalocean.com/community/questions/does-using-digitalocean-domain-name-servers-cost-extra-money

One can also use the amazing Cloudflare service free tier too, it includes DNS and much, much more. One of the features is to get and transfer domain names as COST price. But basic CDN and stats are also included in the free plan.

[humptydumpty]

@micmc since someone on this forum pointed out once that CF is involved in censorship, I'd rather avoid them if given the chance. My main reason though is that I try to avoid using any services from big tech (google, fb, etc.). DO went public a while back which caused me to switch to another host but I'm looking to move from manual to automated DNS and DO is my only viable option atm.

[jdaviescoates]

@humptydumpty I recommend Gandi

[micmc]

@humptydumpty said in Using the same domain across multiple Cloudrons:

@micmc since someone on this forum pointed out once that CF is involved in censorship, I'd rather avoid them if given the chance. My main reason though is that I try to avoid using any services from big tech (google, fb, etc.). DO went public a while back which caused me to switch to another host but I'm looking to move from manual to automated DNS and DO is my only viable option atm.

I fully understand and agree, I did not know about CF and I'm using it forever (*&$(?(%. I guess it's going to be more and more difficult to avoid to avoid the bast...

[robi]

@humptydumpty they have changed their policies since from the one incident that I am aware of. Nothing wrong with their services, or their people, I've met quite a few of them too, including the CEO.

[jdaviescoates]

@robi this is old, but is it out of date?

https://tech.tiq.cc/2016/01/why-you-shouldnt-use-cloudflare/

[robi]

@jdaviescoates yes, very.

While I won't go trough all the points, this person is obviously looking at it with the glass half empty.

Most of the things he talks about are benefits and some points are outright wrong.

I choose to think for myself.

[humptydumpty]

@jdaviescoates I have experienced CF powered sites throw the captcha at me each time I visit so that part is still accurate. To be fair though, I do use a VPN and have non-default/stricter privacy browser settings, and make use of uBlock and other privacy oriented plugins so I understand why the captcha's keep coming up. With that said, I don't want to punish my fellow privacy-oriented users so CF gets the boot.

[jdaviescoates]

@humptydumpty yeah, and I think the vast majority of sites do not and will not get "slash dotted" or get DDoS attacked and anecdotally I've seen WAY more people (including on here) mentioning issues/ problems caused by Cloudflare than people saying "thank good I was using Cloudflare" (I don't think I've ever seen anyone say anything like that)

I think it's a bit like High Availability stuff. As @marcusquinn has I think mentioned elsewhere, most people just don't need it.

And whether or not all/ most of that article I posted is now outdated, it seems obvious to me that everyone using Cloudflare (who in the end are just another investor owned private profit seeking big corporate) contributes to the over centralisation of everything on the web.

Just for info, I also found these bits of their recent SEC return interesting:

We have a history of net losses and may not be able to achieve or sustain profitability in the future.
We have incurred net losses in all periods since we began operations and we may not achieve or maintain profitability in the future. We experienced net losses of $260.3 million, $119.4 million, and $105.8 million for the years ended December 31, 2021, 2020, and 2019, respectively, and as of December 31, 2021, we had an accumulated deficit of $680.8 million. Because the markets for our products are rapidly evolving, it is difficult for us to predict our future results of operations. We expect our operating expenses to increase over the next several years as we continue to hire additional personnel, expand our operations and infrastructure both domestically and internationally, and continue to develop our products. In addition to the expected costs to grow our business, we also are incurring significant additional legal, accounting, and other expenses as a public company, as described in greater detail in the risk factors below. If we fail to increase our revenue to offset the increases in our operating expenses, we may not achieve or sustain profitability in the future.
We have experienced rapid revenue growth, which may not be indicative of our future performance.
We have experienced rapid revenue growth in recent periods, with revenue of $656.4 million, $431.1 million, and $287.0 million for the years ended December 31, 2021, 2020, and 2019, respectively. You should not consider our recent growth in revenue as indicative of our future performance. In particular, our revenue growth rates may slow or decline in the future and may not be sufficient to achieve and sustain profitability, as we also expect our costs to increase in future periods. We believe that historical comparisons of our revenue may not be meaningful and should not be relied upon as an indication of future performance. Accordingly, you should not rely on our revenue and other growth for any prior quarter or year as an indication of our future revenue or revenue growth.

[humptydumpty]

I just finished setting up a CR home server to run Nextcloud so I can keep all my files "in-house". I have the primary domain (say, domain.com) added in a Cloudron hosted with Contabo. So for my home server, I went with gem.domain.com but I cannot add the parent domain (domain.com) into my home server without a second paid subscription plan. Shouldn't the parent domain be allowed on the free plan considering it's the same domain?

TLDR: cannot add primary domain to a secondary CR on the free plan.

@girish @nebulon Please mention this in the docs or if possible, allow us to add the primary domain on a child-CR (free plan).