Submit Cloudron to Ubuntu for Publication
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Cloudron might attract more users if it were listed as an Ubuntu package.
I think the current way to accomplish this is to use snaps. There is documentation here:
https://snapcraft.io/docs/snapcraft-overview
What do you all think?
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Might be an interesting read on this subject:
Anecdotally, it is seems Flatpak is preferred for performance and control over updates. Nothing stopping packaging all 3 ways, than time to do of course!
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Cloudron might attract more users if it were listed as an Ubuntu package.
I think the current way to accomplish this is to use snaps. There is documentation here:
https://snapcraft.io/docs/snapcraft-overview
What do you all think?
@LoudLemur Personally I, and a lot of Ubuntu users, hate SNAPS and many Ubuntu desktop users are getting away from Ubuntu for that very reasons, because snaps apps are distributed as binaries each one running in snaps containers which allows very few possibilities to very the source code, In essence it's becoming kind of Ubundows, or Winuntu if you prefer, as snaps tend to be the EXE files of Linux users that you install on your desktop or even server OS.
I quit using Ubuntu desktop since the use of snap which also tends to load the machine and requires much more resources than before, just like the .... windoze. For now I use Linux Mint which have NOT included snaps in its OS and thus have gain an army of new users simply quitting Ubuntu.
"the decision to change the Software Center to install snap-based applications is controversial."Moreover, for any interested in Unix Desktop I'm lurking at moving to Fedora Workstation which apparently would be the best desktop OS one can find today.
Anyway, those who move to Linux or other Unix-based desktop OS are doing to NEVER come back to either Winthedoze or Crackmymac for sure.
All that said, I personally would not necessarily be happy to see Cloudron as a snap on Ubuntu, this is only mho, as it might not make it a good name among the FOSS community. But, hey, who am I to decide.
Ignorance is not an excuse anymore!
https://AutomateKit.com -
Might be an interesting read on this subject:
Anecdotally, it is seems Flatpak is preferred for performance and control over updates. Nothing stopping packaging all 3 ways, than time to do of course!
@marcusquinn Snaps are Ubuntu specific and less strong for Freedom. Flatpak is more cross-platform but AppImage is the strongest of all from a Freedom perspective.
There are a lot of distributions based on Ubuntu. I think going further upstream to Debian GNU/Linux would run into problems, because as far as I understand, Cloudron is aimed at Ubuntu.
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@LoudLemur Personally I, and a lot of Ubuntu users, hate SNAPS and many Ubuntu desktop users are getting away from Ubuntu for that very reasons, because snaps apps are distributed as binaries each one running in snaps containers which allows very few possibilities to very the source code, In essence it's becoming kind of Ubundows, or Winuntu if you prefer, as snaps tend to be the EXE files of Linux users that you install on your desktop or even server OS.
I quit using Ubuntu desktop since the use of snap which also tends to load the machine and requires much more resources than before, just like the .... windoze. For now I use Linux Mint which have NOT included snaps in its OS and thus have gain an army of new users simply quitting Ubuntu.
"the decision to change the Software Center to install snap-based applications is controversial."Moreover, for any interested in Unix Desktop I'm lurking at moving to Fedora Workstation which apparently would be the best desktop OS one can find today.
Anyway, those who move to Linux or other Unix-based desktop OS are doing to NEVER come back to either Winthedoze or Crackmymac for sure.
All that said, I personally would not necessarily be happy to see Cloudron as a snap on Ubuntu, this is only mho, as it might not make it a good name among the FOSS community. But, hey, who am I to decide.
@micmc said in Submit Cloudron to Ubuntu for Publication:
Anyway, those who move to Linux or other Unix-based desktop OS are doing to NEVER come back to either Winthedoze or Crackmymac for sure.
Simply not true as a generalization. If you need to work and depend on compatibility with file formats of your customers, there’s now way around them (e.g. exchange of contract drafts with tracked changes in Word as a lawyer). And I learned to love my mac for its simplicity and „just works“ approach after using Fedora and Ubuntu privately for a while - I‘m more productively working and less fiddling with the OS and little tools…
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Cloudron might attract more users if it were listed as an Ubuntu package.
I think the current way to accomplish this is to use snaps. There is documentation here:
https://snapcraft.io/docs/snapcraft-overview
What do you all think?
@LoudLemur Appreciate the positive sentiment, but I can't see how having it as snap, flatpak or deb will make much difference, over the current very cool 3-line install.
If you don't know Cloudron exists, then you don't know.
There are zillions of snaps & debs which never enter my awareness just because they are packaged that way. -
@LoudLemur Personally I, and a lot of Ubuntu users, hate SNAPS and many Ubuntu desktop users are getting away from Ubuntu for that very reasons, because snaps apps are distributed as binaries each one running in snaps containers which allows very few possibilities to very the source code, In essence it's becoming kind of Ubundows, or Winuntu if you prefer, as snaps tend to be the EXE files of Linux users that you install on your desktop or even server OS.
I quit using Ubuntu desktop since the use of snap which also tends to load the machine and requires much more resources than before, just like the .... windoze. For now I use Linux Mint which have NOT included snaps in its OS and thus have gain an army of new users simply quitting Ubuntu.
"the decision to change the Software Center to install snap-based applications is controversial."Moreover, for any interested in Unix Desktop I'm lurking at moving to Fedora Workstation which apparently would be the best desktop OS one can find today.
Anyway, those who move to Linux or other Unix-based desktop OS are doing to NEVER come back to either Winthedoze or Crackmymac for sure.
All that said, I personally would not necessarily be happy to see Cloudron as a snap on Ubuntu, this is only mho, as it might not make it a good name among the FOSS community. But, hey, who am I to decide.
@micmc I agree with you on this. For me, not tying an application to a distribution is a good idea. Debian GNU/Linux find there way into Ubuntu eventually.
I am keen to hear why RedHat is touted as the best for desktop users. Elsewhere, I have heard SUSE is superb for stability.
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@LoudLemur Personally I, and a lot of Ubuntu users, hate SNAPS and many Ubuntu desktop users are getting away from Ubuntu for that very reasons, because snaps apps are distributed as binaries each one running in snaps containers which allows very few possibilities to very the source code, In essence it's becoming kind of Ubundows, or Winuntu if you prefer, as snaps tend to be the EXE files of Linux users that you install on your desktop or even server OS.
I quit using Ubuntu desktop since the use of snap which also tends to load the machine and requires much more resources than before, just like the .... windoze. For now I use Linux Mint which have NOT included snaps in its OS and thus have gain an army of new users simply quitting Ubuntu.
"the decision to change the Software Center to install snap-based applications is controversial."Moreover, for any interested in Unix Desktop I'm lurking at moving to Fedora Workstation which apparently would be the best desktop OS one can find today.
Anyway, those who move to Linux or other Unix-based desktop OS are doing to NEVER come back to either Winthedoze or Crackmymac for sure.
All that said, I personally would not necessarily be happy to see Cloudron as a snap on Ubuntu, this is only mho, as it might not make it a good name among the FOSS community. But, hey, who am I to decide.
@micmc said in Submit Cloudron to Ubuntu for Publication:
Personally I, and a lot of Ubuntu users, hate SNAPS
I hate them when they haven't been packaged well (which seems to very often be the case), which means I now opt for a good old non-Snap format if available.
e.g. the Snap for Musicbrainz Picard, which is a totally awesome piece of software, is totally unusable for me because all my music is on a mounted external (well, it's actually an internal drive, but it's not the same drive as the OS is on) drive which the Snap can't access at all. See my twitter rant (and some good responses explaining why this is the case from people who seem to know what they are talking about)
https://twitter.com/jdaviescoates/status/1526524692193869825
I've had similar issues (that were at first utterly baffling and extremely frustrating) due to using Snaps too (e.g. GIMP).
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My absolute favourite Ubuntu-based Linux desktop distros, after battle-testing so many in Proxmox, in many different ways for personal and business needs:
That's it. No Arch, Manjaro, Ubuntu, SuSe, or anything else crazy, sexy or cool, according to others.
I found I just kept coming back to Kubuntu or Zorin as better in every way for needing it to mostly "just work".
And... With either of these, you can also easily build your own distro .iso image with all your favourite apps pre-installed:
Web Design https://www.evergreen.je
Development https://brandlight.org
Life https://marcusquinn.com -
My absolute favourite Ubuntu-based Linux desktop distros, after battle-testing so many in Proxmox, in many different ways for personal and business needs:
That's it. No Arch, Manjaro, Ubuntu, SuSe, or anything else crazy, sexy or cool, according to others.
I found I just kept coming back to Kubuntu or Zorin as better in every way for needing it to mostly "just work".
And... With either of these, you can also easily build your own distro .iso image with all your favourite apps pre-installed:
@marcusquinn said in Submit Cloudron to Ubuntu for Publication:
My absolute favourite Ubuntu-based Linux desktop distros, after battle-testing so many in Proxmox, in many different ways for personal and business needs:
That's it. No Arch, Manjaro, Ubuntu, SuSe, or anything else crazy, sexy or cool, according to others.
I must agree those three are indeed great distros as well, though the snap thingy is still part of Zorin which is Ubuntu based distro, which many users still would love to get rid of. And that seems to be the case for some Kubuntu users as well.
Too bad because Kubuntu was perfect for running on very old machines and even laptops without much resources but it's not the case anymore because of this "snap attack" on Ubuntu based distros. Really much too bad. If one has a beefy machine and don't mind running mostly binaries Kubuntu would be the choice imho.
Actually, afaics Linux Mint is still the only Ubuntu based distro which does NOT includes "snap hell" lol but good 'ol apt install and flatpak as well.
Ignorance is not an excuse anymore!
https://AutomateKit.com -
@micmc said in Submit Cloudron to Ubuntu for Publication:
Anyway, those who move to Linux or other Unix-based desktop OS are doing to NEVER come back to either Winthedoze or Crackmymac for sure.
Simply not true as a generalization. If you need to work and depend on compatibility with file formats of your customers, there’s now way around them (e.g. exchange of contract drafts with tracked changes in Word as a lawyer). And I learned to love my mac for its simplicity and „just works“ approach after using Fedora and Ubuntu privately for a while - I‘m more productively working and less fiddling with the OS and little tools…
@necrevistonnezr said in Submit Cloudron to Ubuntu for Publication:
@micmc said in Submit Cloudron to Ubuntu for Publication:
Anyway, those who move to Linux or other Unix-based desktop OS are doing to NEVER come back to either Winthedoze or Crackmymac for sure.
Simply not true as a generalization. If you need to work and depend on compatibility with file formats of your customers, there’s now way around them (e.g. exchange of contract drafts with tracked changes in Word as a lawyer). And I learned to love my mac for its simplicity and „just works“ approach after using Fedora and Ubuntu privately for a while - I‘m more productively working and less fiddling with the OS and little tools…
Yeah, I cannot disagree with you here because if course there's a lot of variables involved, I'll tell you, though hush, I'm still running a windoze machine somewhere down there for the very reason of some files compatibility issues sometimes (however not that much as LibreOffice and OnlyOffice are getting more and more sophisticated and compatible with MS crap) however it's running win 7 only. No Win-Spy 10 and above. As a mac user I completely understand where you stand, but I cannot agree it's simpler to use than Ubuntu distros, not anymore to the least, and I've reasons to believe, after a little more than 30 years in IT, that Apple might sniff more on its users than its users tend to believe, just as micro-sh.t does.
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@micmc said in Submit Cloudron to Ubuntu for Publication:
Personally I, and a lot of Ubuntu users, hate SNAPS
I hate them when they haven't been packaged well (which seems to very often be the case), which means I now opt for a good old non-Snap format if available.
e.g. the Snap for Musicbrainz Picard, which is a totally awesome piece of software, is totally unusable for me because all my music is on a mounted external (well, it's actually an internal drive, but it's not the same drive as the OS is on) drive which the Snap can't access at all. See my twitter rant (and some good responses explaining why this is the case from people who seem to know what they are talking about)
https://twitter.com/jdaviescoates/status/1526524692193869825
I've had similar issues (that were at first utterly baffling and extremely frustrating) due to using Snaps too (e.g. GIMP).
@jdaviescoates said in Submit Cloudron to Ubuntu for Publication:
@micmc said in Submit Cloudron to Ubuntu for Publication:
Personally I, and a lot of Ubuntu users, hate SNAPS
I hate them when they haven't been packaged well (which seems to very often be the case),
loll so true and one of the first reasons I started to hate this.
which means I now opt for a good old non-Snap format if available.
Always the best choice to make, indeed.
https://twitter.com/jdaviescoates/status/1526524692193869825
Well pointed, that expresses the sentiment of many and part of the reasons of the great exodus away from Ubuntu's distros.
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@marcusquinn said in Submit Cloudron to Ubuntu for Publication:
My absolute favourite Ubuntu-based Linux desktop distros, after battle-testing so many in Proxmox, in many different ways for personal and business needs:
That's it. No Arch, Manjaro, Ubuntu, SuSe, or anything else crazy, sexy or cool, according to others.
I must agree those three are indeed great distros as well, though the snap thingy is still part of Zorin which is Ubuntu based distro, which many users still would love to get rid of. And that seems to be the case for some Kubuntu users as well.
Too bad because Kubuntu was perfect for running on very old machines and even laptops without much resources but it's not the case anymore because of this "snap attack" on Ubuntu based distros. Really much too bad. If one has a beefy machine and don't mind running mostly binaries Kubuntu would be the choice imho.
Actually, afaics Linux Mint is still the only Ubuntu based distro which does NOT includes "snap hell" lol but good 'ol apt install and flatpak as well.
@micmc Kubuntu defaults to Flatpak, and Zorin includes FLatpak in it's store search by default. Other distros you need to manually add it:
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@marcusquinn said in Submit Cloudron to Ubuntu for Publication:
My absolute favourite Ubuntu-based Linux desktop distros, after battle-testing so many in Proxmox, in many different ways for personal and business needs:
That's it. No Arch, Manjaro, Ubuntu, SuSe, or anything else crazy, sexy or cool, according to others.
I must agree those three are indeed great distros as well, though the snap thingy is still part of Zorin which is Ubuntu based distro, which many users still would love to get rid of. And that seems to be the case for some Kubuntu users as well.
Too bad because Kubuntu was perfect for running on very old machines and even laptops without much resources but it's not the case anymore because of this "snap attack" on Ubuntu based distros. Really much too bad. If one has a beefy machine and don't mind running mostly binaries Kubuntu would be the choice imho.
Actually, afaics Linux Mint is still the only Ubuntu based distro which does NOT includes "snap hell" lol but good 'ol apt install and flatpak as well.
Web Design https://www.evergreen.je
Development https://brandlight.org
Life https://marcusquinn.com -
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Kinda post hijacking, but since the interested audience might like to know somewhere, we've also been impressed with the offering from these guys:
Imagine having Cloudron as on of the custom apps being offered on their personalised builds.
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You can install snapd on non-ubuntu systems. Though I have no idea if they have any advantage over flatpak or appimage.
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You can install snapd on non-ubuntu systems. Though I have no idea if they have any advantage over flatpak or appimage.
@bubonicfred said in Submit Cloudron to Ubuntu for Publication:
You can install snapd on non-ubuntu systems. Though I have no idea if they have any advantage over flatpak or appimage.
Yep, except it turns that we want to get away from snap instead of adopting it for some reasons mentioned here above, so well that's a choice
