AVX Support in your VPS/Server
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Due to the CPU limitations of the ZimaBoard 832, which lacks support for AVXhttps://www.zimaboard.com/blog/diy-ultimate-home-server-with-zimaboard-832.html
So no Cloudron 7.6 on this small device. -
Yes this is kinda unfortunate, since I also run a zima board. We decided to prioritize the update for most users over trying on how to keep such low-end CPUs supported at first. We have a potential upgrade path forward for these devices, but its going to be quite a lot of work, as we have to first build the infrastructure to make addons like mongodb (which has no upgrade path for such CPUs) optional and thus also build a system to prevent apps, relying on mongodb, to not be installable.
This can be done if there are too many users facing this issue though.
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Yes this is kinda unfortunate, since I also run a zima board. We decided to prioritize the update for most users over trying on how to keep such low-end CPUs supported at first. We have a potential upgrade path forward for these devices, but its going to be quite a lot of work, as we have to first build the infrastructure to make addons like mongodb (which has no upgrade path for such CPUs) optional and thus also build a system to prevent apps, relying on mongodb, to not be installable.
This can be done if there are too many users facing this issue though.
@nebulon As far as I understand it: If my CPU does not support AVX and I want a secure and always updated Cloudron instance, I have to change the underlying hardware. There will not (in the near future) be a second version of Cloudron (the platform). Right?
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I have 4 Dell R910s with X7560 and 1tb ram each very painful as those machines are workhorses but cannot be used due to avx limitations and now only relying on my R930s with E5 series
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Hi there,
I have a Netcup VPS 500 G10s since yesterday and unfortunately avx/avx2 is not available there. So could you please provide Cloudron versions >=7.6 without AVX/AVX2 dependencies.@why42 said in AVX Support in your VPS/Server:
So could you please provide Cloudron versions >=7.6 without AVX/AVX2 dependencies.
I don't think that is going to happen tbh.
The problem is the MongoDB 5 which numerous apps require itselfs requires AVX/AVX2
Sadly that means the the cheap Netcup VPS servers are no longer compatible with Cloudron (although their more expensive RS RootServer range still is).
I'd recommend checking out Hetzner Cloud as an almost as cheap but overall imho much better provider than Netcup (tbh I've just found everything about Netcup to be clunky, whereas the whole experience with Hetzner is pretty great imho)
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@why42 said in AVX Support in your VPS/Server:
So could you please provide Cloudron versions >=7.6 without AVX/AVX2 dependencies.
I don't think that is going to happen tbh.
The problem is the MongoDB 5 which numerous apps require itselfs requires AVX/AVX2
Sadly that means the the cheap Netcup VPS servers are no longer compatible with Cloudron (although their more expensive RS RootServer range still is).
I'd recommend checking out Hetzner Cloud as an almost as cheap but overall imho much better provider than Netcup (tbh I've just found everything about Netcup to be clunky, whereas the whole experience with Hetzner is pretty great imho)
@jdaviescoates said in AVX Support in your VPS/Server:
Sadly that means the the cheap Netcup VPS servers are no longer compatible with Cloudron (although their more expensive RS RootServer range still is).
Thanks for for the hints. Meanwhile I talked to the Netcup support. They stated that due to the nested virtualization in their VPS product line the AVX/AVX2 instructions set is not available. They recommend like you did the the Netcup Root Server (RS) product line as alternative.
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@jdaviescoates said in AVX Support in your VPS/Server:
Sadly that means the the cheap Netcup VPS servers are no longer compatible with Cloudron (although their more expensive RS RootServer range still is).
Thanks for for the hints. Meanwhile I talked to the Netcup support. They stated that due to the nested virtualization in their VPS product line the AVX/AVX2 instructions set is not available. They recommend like you did the the Netcup Root Server (RS) product line as alternative.
@why42 yep, I'd asked them exactly the same before, hence how I knew
@jdaviescoates said in What's coming in 7.6:
@girish said in What's coming in 7.6:
Update MongoDB to 5.0. Important: this release requires AVX support in CPU
I asked Netcup if they could add AVX support to their VPS offering, but they said:
Sorry, but we can't add the AVX Flag to our VPS, because of the nested virtualization.
But our Root Servers have avx and avx2 available.
I was going to add to to the initial thread about AVX support but for some reason that has been locked (which I've just discovered also means you can't easily quote any of the posts in it. Odd).
So I guess it's bye bye affordable (and powered by renewable energy) Netcup VPS servers then. Oh well.
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I talked to the SysOps Team of hosting.de and they are working on a solution for the Cloud Server for AWX.
Could take 2-4 Weeks.Like my work? Consider donating a drink. Cheers!
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I talked to the SysOps Team of hosting.de and they are working on a solution for the Cloud Server for AWX.
Could take 2-4 Weeks.@BrutalBirdie good work! Do you know if they purchase 100% renewable power like many of the other German VPS providers do?
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@BrutalBirdie good work! Do you know if they purchase 100% renewable power like many of the other German VPS providers do?
@jdaviescoates on their Homepage the got a badge: https://www.hosting.de/images/logos/eco-volt.svg 100% Green electricity that's what I know.
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@jdaviescoates on their Homepage the got a badge: https://www.hosting.de/images/logos/eco-volt.svg 100% Green electricity that's what I know.
@BrutalBirdie thanks
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Welp.. essentially loosing support for netcup vServers would be very impactful for us. We´d have to convince a lot of customers to move to rServers or another hosting service, not even mentioning our time spent on migrating their servers.
I guess this is one of those problems where nobody is to blame - I get netcup´s stance, but cooking up two cloudron versions every release circle doesn´t sound practical either.I´ll send an email to netcup customer support, maybe they can be convinced to add AVX support if enough of us are complaining.
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Welp.. essentially loosing support for netcup vServers would be very impactful for us. We´d have to convince a lot of customers to move to rServers or another hosting service, not even mentioning our time spent on migrating their servers.
I guess this is one of those problems where nobody is to blame - I get netcup´s stance, but cooking up two cloudron versions every release circle doesn´t sound practical either.I´ll send an email to netcup customer support, maybe they can be convinced to add AVX support if enough of us are complaining.
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Welp.. essentially loosing support for netcup vServers would be very impactful for us. We´d have to convince a lot of customers to move to rServers or another hosting service, not even mentioning our time spent on migrating their servers.
I guess this is one of those problems where nobody is to blame - I get netcup´s stance, but cooking up two cloudron versions every release circle doesn´t sound practical either.I´ll send an email to netcup customer support, maybe they can be convinced to add AVX support if enough of us are complaining.
@maxkreg said in AVX Support in your VPS/Server:
I´ll send an email to netcup customer support, maybe they can be convinced to add AVX support if enough of us are complaining.
That was also a reason I asked the Netcup support a fews days before. However, if they do not want to offer AVX/AVX2 support for free, it would be ok for me to pay 1 Euro/month for example for AVX/AVX2 support.
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@maxkreg it should be an easy fix for them to enable it in their virt layer, as long as the underlying CPUs support it.
@robi said in AVX Support in your VPS/Server:
as long as the underlying CPUs support it.
I think that is likely the issue. I suspect Netcup won't be able to support Cloudron on their VPS vServers until they upgrade their hardware.
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Welp.. essentially loosing support for netcup vServers would be very impactful for us. We´d have to convince a lot of customers to move to rServers or another hosting service, not even mentioning our time spent on migrating their servers.
I guess this is one of those problems where nobody is to blame - I get netcup´s stance, but cooking up two cloudron versions every release circle doesn´t sound practical either.I´ll send an email to netcup customer support, maybe they can be convinced to add AVX support if enough of us are complaining.
@maxkreg said in AVX Support in your VPS/Server:
Netcup vServers would be very impactful for us. We´d have to convince a lot of customers to move to rServers or another hosting service, not even mentioning our time spent on migrating their servers
Same issue here. I always recommended Netcups vservers as they are cheap and there was no real disadvantage compared to their “root” servers. Now I have to migrate a lot of small customer servers telling them its because of an technical issue they are not able to understand.
Long (or mid?) term there will be the point were apps demand Cloudron v7.6.0 as minimum version and everybody who does not migrate to another server will be screwed.
Can someone make a table listing "known good" hosters + products? I know for a fact that Netcups RS (the fake root servers) have AVX as my main Cloudron runs on a RS 4000.
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I just moved from a Netcup VPS (no AVX support) to a Contabo VPS (with AVX support). I restored my cloudron backup that's stored on a Google Cloud Bucket. It works all fine now and I also updated to cloudron 7.6. All in all it went ok, just some minor pain points that were fixable. If someone get's stuck with the same migration I can share my experience.
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I just moved from a Netcup VPS (no AVX support) to a Contabo VPS (with AVX support). I restored my cloudron backup that's stored on a Google Cloud Bucket. It works all fine now and I also updated to cloudron 7.6. All in all it went ok, just some minor pain points that were fixable. If someone get's stuck with the same migration I can share my experience.
@erikscholz said in AVX Support in your VPS/Server:
just some minor pain points that were fixable
What should we fix
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@erikscholz said in AVX Support in your VPS/Server:
just some minor pain points that were fixable
What should we fix
?@girish said in AVX Support in your VPS/Server:
@erikscholz said in AVX Support in your VPS/Server:
just some minor pain points that were fixable
What should we fix ?I had a couple of struggles that for example were connected to how Contabo operates. For example I installed the wrong version of cloudron, then cancelled the process, than I had to reinstall the whole Ubuntu and then I had trouble to reconnect to the server due to some ssh key or such. So it's not related to cloudron. There is one thing I suggest that's worth fixing on cloudron side, though:
I restored cloudron with a config file. That went all in all pretty smooth. The form that showed up after uploading the config file did miss one information. Google Buckets require some sort of json key. But the form did not show in red what was missing. So I suggest to have a negative validation (e.g. in red) for missing elements. At that moment I did not even know that such json key exists because it's a while ago that I connected a google cloud bucket to cloudron.
