Cloudron Forum

@james said:

If you find something unclear of lacking in the documentation ...

Just getting my head around the workflow, and I like to "spell things out" :

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• build the Community App (previously known as a Custom App)
  (my 'old fashioned' approach : docker build, docker push, cloudron install, probably keep doing that because my build script does it, don't fix what ain't broke)

---

• make a CloudronVersions.json file
  
  same folder as project dev folder (Dockerfile, start.sh, CloudronManifest.json, README.md, POSTINSTALL.md etc.)
  • cloudron versions init
  • cloudron versions add
  • maybe add to my build script

---

• why "CloudronVersions" in the plural ?
  
  I guess Cloudron thinking is that a Community App might have v1.0.0, v1.0.1, v2.0.0
  Very complete approach, lovely
  but with cloudron versions revoke I wonder if this will ever be in true in practice (I would likely revoke every old version).

---

• upload CloudronVersions.json to static hosting
  gotcha
  but if I have 10 Custom oops Community Apps, what is Cloudron team envisioning :

  • that I will have 10 Surfer apps (app1.tim.uk, app2.tim.uk, etc) ?

  • Or 1 sectioned Surfer app (communityapps.tim.uk) ?

  • Or no Surfer apps and just stick CloudronVersions.json in the relevant git repo (urls to files from git are not always clear) ?

  • I guess you probably don't care, but I'm intrigued what your expectations are

---

Cloudron CLI help typo ?

% cloudron versions --help 
Usage: cloudron-versions [options] [command]

Hyphenated ?

---

@james

Spread the word

Post about new packages in the App Packaging & Development category of the forum.

Personally I think that category should remain more technical, devs needing assistance / having questions.

You published a different category : https://forum.cloudron.io/category/220/community-apps

I think that is where the word should be spread.

Just my 2p.

So, feeling stupid (more than normal) for starting with ZNC (Zeronet Conservancy), ZNX (ZeronetX) is now packaged.

Ignoring the vagaries of P2P and Tor, this does seem to be viable.

Git repo : https://git.cloudron.io/timconsidine/cloudron-zeronet (same) has been refactored into 2 folders, ZNC just in case someone feels they want to take it over / use as a base, and ZNX.

Docker image: tcmbp132021/cloudron-zeronet:v3.0.0

ZNX actually allows an ID to be created and ZNX-leaning sites seem to be alive.

I absolutely see the value of Zeronet for different uses, including hiding in plain sight (for legitimate reasons), and it seems usable enough. Old/abandoned/un-peered sites can be ignored. Set up active sites.

Haven't yet found a site to promote relocation of No.10 / Millbank PHQ to central Tehran, but I will keep looking.

I've come to the conclusion that, (my bad) out of ignorance of the history and status of Zeronet, packaging 'Zeronet Conservancy' was a huge mistake. I thought 'Conservancy' was a good concept. Seems it should have been called "preserve in aspic and never update it". Too much old history, broken/dead sites, embedded dependencies on defunct ZeroID (unless you're an old timer lucky to have one). So I am abandoning it, but work to date will be preserved in a separate folder in the git repo.

Instead, I will have a time-limited bash at packaging ZeroNetX ZNX.

Zeronet is a great concept, but it needs to work viably and realistically in 2026 and onwards.

@luckow well seems to me it is docker hub access issue, not an app issue.
My ping was via cloudflare and IPV4
Yours seem ipv6 and direct.
No idea why either difference would be a blocker.

I’ll try some diagnosis

What are the Four of Us Still Doing Here on Zeronet?

I am visiting a dead network every couple of weeks just to see if anyone is still using it and post a couple of posts to ZeroTalk Tech and The All-Night Bookstore and Cafe. Despite the fact that ZeroNet still works beautifully and governments around the world are cracking down on free speech with new "child protection" laws that don't protect children in any way, no one is using ZeroNet. Zite owners can't protect their zites from spam or even keep them up consistently, even when spam is not a factor. We are told ZeroNet is insecure. And no developer is willing to fix these problems. I know of no other decentralized network that I can actually put a website on it and have it perform half as well as ZeroNet, so I really have no better option right now than the Web.

I am currently running a small social media site on the Web, and I recently had to announce that I would be blocking several US states due to their new child safety laws. I am afraid the situation will only be getting worse from here on, but there is no network to move to. None! The future looks bleak for free speech, social media, and peer-to-peer networks. How did we allow ourselves to get here?

Pushed some tweaks in v2.0.1 to git repo and docker hub

Multiple rebuilds and reinstalls done
What can I say : for me, it works out the box, no issues except delays entirely due to P2P/Tor. I can't control those.

If there is anything specific to fix, let me know.
Otherwise I have to mark this as done.

Zeronet seems to me a brilliant concept, rendered fringe/prone to outdated content by apathy of devs and users.
Sorry, that's just how it seems to a newbie.

@msbt 9.12 ?

@robi with respect, I think your system or network or Tor is “fsck-ed”.
Could something, another ZeroNet installed/running, be conflicting ?

Fresh install, new container.
The home page, now back to standard ZNC, loads in <5 seconds.
0name archive loads in <5 seconds.
AllnightBookstire loads in <5 seconds. (Longer for full sync)
Ditto for 0list.
Ditto for ZeroTalk and ZeroTalk Tech.
Ditto for ZeroSites.
Ditto for ZeroMail.

Others like Syncronite take longer due to the nature of P2P
Within 20 minutes the only site not yet loaded is 1Hello (ironic but other Zites are pulling a lot of content, don't know if that is relevant).

If you want to suggest some Zites to check, happy to do this.
I hate saying this, but evidence is your experience is not an app issue.

Latest entry <9 hours ago :

@robi / others interested

I have revisited the Zeronet repo / build.
Should now be a working vanilla Zeronet Conservancy deployment.

v2.0.0
repo : https://git.cloudron.io/timconsidine/cloudron-zeronet

docker image : tcmbp132021/cloudron-zeronet:v2.0.0

Not 100% sure it's done, because I still don't get Zeronet - excellent idea, but mostly old/stale sites, does anyone actually use Zeronet , maybe it's a "time to sync" issue, which I don't have enough patience for.

But check it out

Looks nice.

Spurtcommerce is released under the BSD-3-Clause License..

No license found in Github repo. Link to licence fails.

Is the app functional without any of the extensions ?

@luckow said:

Installing App to diffy.example.org ...
Image: tcmbp132021/cloudron-dify:latest
✘ Installation failed: No such route

[I assume diffy.example.org is just obfuscation for the forum. ]

Compared to this :

Installing App to jumble.xapps.uk...
Image: tcmbp132021/cloudron-dify:latest

Installation Started! (This may take a few minutes)

I think this suggests / confirms network issue.
Try again, maybe ?

The first part of the sequence (the script) runs in seconds, so re-trying is do-able.
The second part (the cloudron install) takes few minutes because of image size.

Are you running the install on your desktop/laptop ? Or on your Cloudron instance ?
Either way, I suspect temporary network failure connecting to hub.docker.com

---

Edit : I would do some standard network diagnostics.

% ping hub.docker.com
PING hub.docker.com.cdn.cloudflare.net (104.18.43.187): 56 data bytes
64 bytes from 104.18.43.187: icmp_seq=0 ttl=58 time=11.143 ms
64 bytes from 104.18.43.187: icmp_seq=1 ttl=58 time=11.543 ms
64 bytes from 104.18.43.187: icmp_seq=2 ttl=58 time=10.148 ms
^C
--- hub.docker.com.cdn.cloudflare.net ping statistics ---
3 packets transmitted, 3 packets received, 0.0% packet loss
round-trip min/avg/max/stddev = 10.148/10.945/11.543/0.587 ms

---

Hmmm, possibly a Cloudflare issue ?

@luckow

% curl -fsSL https://customappgateway.appx.uk/install.sh | bash -s -- --install-app "Dify AI"
CustomAppGateway Universal Installer
----------------------------------------
Detected OS: Darwin (arm64)
Downloading installer from: https://customappgateway.appx.uk/cag-installer-macos
Running Installer...
----------------------------------------
Welcome to the Custom App Gateway (CAG) Installer
-----------------------------------------------
Fetching catalogue to find app: Dify AI...
✔ Found App: Dify AI (undefined)
NOTE: You will need an API Token from your Cloudron Profile.
      Go to https://my.your-cloudron.com/#/profile to generate one.
? Enter your Cloudron Domain (e.g., my.example.com): my.example.uk
? Enter your Cloudron API Token: ****************************************************************
? Enter the subdomain to install the app (e.g., ccai.example.com): jumble.xapps.uk

Validating connection...
✔ Connection successful

Fetching App Manifest...
Fetching manifest from: https://customappgateway.appx.uk/deploy/dify/CloudronManifest.json
✔ Manifest fetched successfully
Resolving manifest file references...

Installing App to jumble.xapps.uk...
Image: tcmbp132021/cloudron-dify:latest

✔ Installation Started! (This may take a few minutes)
App ID: 35125028-84f0-4fb7-a307-eb6adaa6d691
You can check the progress in your Cloudron Dashboard.
Please wait for the app to enter "Running" state before using it.

SECURITY REMINDER: Please DELETE the API Token you used for this installation now.

----------------------------------------
Cleaning up...
Done.

Takes a while to download image because it's a BIG image.
Then :

So ... I don't know for sure but I would suspect network issue somewhere.

Cloudron v9.1.3 is available
This update is a pre-release and not considered stable yet. Please update at your own risk.

Which version is being rolled out ?

Maybe I am slow on the uptake, but I have only just realised the impact which AGENT.md and SOUL.md have on the behaviour of the bot.

Well, I knew it in theory, but I did not do "2+2".

Significant customisation possible, and because those files (and others) are deployed to /app/data/.nanobot/workspace, they are easily edited w/o container rebuild or app restart (just a runtime /app/data/restart-gateway).

For my needs I have removed the puff and padding from responses, and just get the answer.

In theory, the base personality in AGENT.md/SOUL.md can be overridden in a particular SKILL.md, but I have not yet played with that.

I was initially "overwhelmed" by creating a skill, I think the docs and the available examples are pretty poor (IMHO), but now I have realised the scope of what is possible. Especially getting an agent to write the skill !

If you have not tried Nanobot, it's a functional lightweight bloat-free app with great potential.

Might well be my first Community App once 9.1.x is stable.

Not sure anybody cares (which is fine, my itch is scratched), but ...

BISQ API HEADLESS :

• updated API calls
• removed the SKILL (because I don't want to duplicate it and it sits more naturally in the Nanobot repository: the updated skill has been deployed there)

AI dev agent ? Which one ?
Just interested, doesn’t seem familiar.

@LoudLemur said:

it's in a "works up to the last mile" state.

I've got a few of those, so understood

@LoudLemur said:

Would switching to base 5.0.0 and its native Node fix the indexing step too?

I've found that the answer to that type of question is only ever discovered by trying it !

I have a few other projects on/behind, but I might take a look. But please don't let that stop anyone else doing so.

@jdaviescoates Yes, I am planning to "convert" all my custom apps to Community Apps. But I'm generally cautious on new releases (no disrespect intended) so I am waiting for 9.1 to be stable before installing and cracking on (checking regularly).

But nothing to stop @murgero doing it before then..
I won't be offended in the slightest.
I seem to recall it wasn't a difficult one. So depending on perspective, an easy one to get back in the swing with, or not challenging enough to be interested in taking on.