:o :o

[jdaviescoates]

@nebulon @girish but also cal/carddav within Cloudron itself would really awesome too!!!

[mehdi]

@girish I am quite skeptical of this ... Honestly, email makes sense because a lot of apps are "consumers" of the email service, to send or receive email, so having it integrated in the platform is a good idea. On the other hand, I do not think there are many apps which are only "consumers" of dav, so having to install an app to provide the service makes more sense in my opinion

[jdaviescoates]

@mehdi think of it the other way, re user needs as opposed to app needs. Pretty much everyone needs contacts and calendars and currently use Google or Apple. If they could replace those with Cloudron (without having to use Nextcloud or Sogo which they may have no other reason to use), that's great!

[mehdi]

@jdaviescoates Then install radicale, which is a minimalist dav server

I, for example, use cloudron for a lot of things, but not for my main email / calendar base. So an integrated dav would be useless for me, but email is very useful because apps can send emails to users to warn them of stuff.

Also, having an integrated dav sever would be very confusing for users who do use nextcloud or sogo, as there would be 2 separate dav servers ... that would be kinda weird, wouldn't it ?

[A Former User]

@mehdi I mean those parts of nextcloud are plugins that could be disabled. So people who would rather use cloudron dav services would just disable those things in cloudron and not use sogo. Nobody's forcing people to use both...

[mehdi]

@atrilahiji I understand, but I think that if there is not a really good reason to bundle stuff together, it makes more sense to just keep them separate : easier to work on, easier to reason about https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KISS_principle

[jdaviescoates]

@mehdi said in :

@jdaviescoates Then install radicale, which is a minimalist dav server

Problem is as @d19dotca has highlighted previously Radicale doesn't seem to even want to be RFC compliant, see

https://forum.cloudron.io/post/5820

[A Former User]

@mehdi I agree generally, but in this case I am coming from the perspective of giving clients accounts on the cloudron. In this instance, It would certainly be easier for them to manage these things inside of cloudron itself. Although this is also an issue that is trained/documented away so I guess we can stick with seperate apps.

[d19dotca]

@mehdi said in :

Then install radicale, which is a minimalist dav server

@jdaviescoates beat me to it, haha. I was already thinking up a response as I ready through this conversation. So to lay down some of my concerns with "just use Radicale"...

Minimalist yes, but not completely compliant (they even state that they refuse to support the full spec), and Radicale as a project has no intention of really embracing the full spec, simply aiming to be the "most basic" one available. That's not really a great long-term growth server to be running in that case, IMO.

Additionally, Radicale has issues (mind you all software does), I've made posts about in the Radicale category too. From the looks of that group though I may be one of just a few who actually use it, haha.

There are some limitations to Radicale, so while yes it may serve most people's needs - it's far from perfect and as a heavy user of CalDAV and CardDAV myself, Radicale isn't that great. It's just the easiest for me at the moment so I continue to use it, but I've looked at possibly trying to learn how to package an app by trying something like Baikal or something more performant and better aligning to the specs.

I for one would love to see Cloudron do it, though I also wonder if it's a better use of their time on other projects when we can simply bundle some better CalDAV / CardDAV server apps instead. But hey I'm all for more options so if they want to do it then - as a heavy user of those protocols - I say go for it!

[girish]

We won't actually write our own dav server. Instead, we would use one of the battle tested ones like https://github.com/sabre-io/dav (I think this is the one which SOGo and nextcloud use).

[d19dotca]

@girish Ah perfect, yes that and Baikal were one of the ones I was wanting to package someday, so that's great then.