Focus on Business Apps
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@scooke They are new (~1yr old) but have you seen how fast they are growing? Twenty is now the most-starred CRM project on Github with 24k stars. They have almost 400 contributors and release new features and fixes at a crazy speed. I tested it on a VPS and it's surprisingly stable considering its maturity. I would use it for my business without worrying.
I haven't tested Plane but the reviews on Reddit are good.
It's not because the product is new that it's not a good product. Old mentality.
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But …
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We're currently in the development phase of Twenty's alpha version.
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Typically Cloudron prefers apps to have made it to a v1.0 release. I didn’t see a releases page. (But looking on small screen).No judgement applied, it may be great and growing, but when something is in alpha (not even beta) a lot of breaking changes can happen. That’s a big potential maintenance burden.
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And Plane is on V0.24
This may explain why they’re not available on Cloudron as official apps yet.
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@eddowding said in Focus on Business Apps:
Easypanel
A reminder that Easypanel and loads of other Cloudron-like (but not as good) services can be found in this thread https://forum.cloudron.io/post/73347 (NOTE: I've not yet added all the contributions to the top post so be sure to keep scrolling for more)
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@timconsidine Yes you have a good point and I agree with you 100%. Those were interesting platforms I have seen trending on Github that I like and keep an eye on... you're right tho, it may be better to wait until they release their v1 before adding them to Cloudron.
But the main point is still valid. We need a better voting system... If you decline an app, please tell us at least the reason why you can't add it to Cloudron. If we know the reason, we may come back with a solution, or reach out to the developers of the project and see if they can improve their docker template to make it compatible with Cloudron.
More transparency would be nice! Also, if you could post a roadmap on what is planned that would be great. Many SaaS now have a public roadmap where we can see what's planned and their current states like:
- Consideration
- Planned
- In development
etc...
I think these changes would be highly appreciated by the Cloudron community.
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@igaudette said in Focus on Business Apps:
If you decline an app, please tell us at least the reason why you can't add it to Cloudron.
This may be an English as second language thing, but just for double clarity @timconsidine is not part of Cloudron @Staff who are led by founders @girish and @nebulon.
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@eddowding said in Focus on Business Apps:
Huh. Easypanel is a great contender. More maintenance and no email, and way more technical looking .. but definitely very interesting.
I think EP's also is a lot of fun to use and play with as one needs a bit more technical skills and knowledge in some areas, and Cloudron is so easy to use while so powerful it's become a little bit boring to use
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@imc67 said in Focus on Business Apps:
@micmc said in Focus on Business Apps:
I use EasyPanel
Thanks for sharing EasyPanel!!!
My pleasure mate!
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@igaudette said in Focus on Business Apps:
I tried Directus but it's not like budibase or appsmith.. It's more a database management tool with an interface. You can't build apps. A good use case for Budibase or Appsmith was to create a frontend for n8n and start workflows via webhooks.
I cannot compare them because, I know the other 2 but I have yet to take a deeper look
and it's been possible to build apps with DBMS for a long, long time I'd just say maybe it just depends on the TYPE of apps one's talking about or needs, but you definitely can builds some apps with Directus. Last summer they started a video series called 100 Tools, Apps, and Platform You Can Build With Directus.On another note, some of the most on demand apps to be added on Cloudron right now, in the areas discussed here but aren't just yet, can be tested on EasyPanel, you can use Appssmith, Activepieces, Openblocks, BotPress (ressources hog), Flowise, Qdrant, Metabase, Nocobase, NodeJS, SupaBase, I haven't tried them all yet but I'm running an instance of Flowise, ActivePieces and Qdrant definitely exciting to say the least. Cheers!
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@eddowding Give us a break. "Try". All you did was complain. Put the energy you spend making spreadsheets into learning how to package apps if you really want to "try". Or, just "Move to the next level with your one-person operation" and "Bring your whole team on board and work together" with EasyPanel, see how long that stays satisfactory. Their X account just announces stuff, no Help there. Their Top Trending Bug Report has 9 upvotes. 9. Their Trending Feature Request has 3 upvotes, and you know what is for? For FTP and Google Drive backups... for free! How many Backup options does Cloudron offer, even in the free tier? Let me check... lots. Look at the screenshot:
Someone called Cloudron a revolution... yeah, it is.
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@scooke said in Focus on Business Apps:
All you did was complain.
That doesn't feel fair.
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Suggested implementing a better public voting/roadmap system using Fider or similar tools to better track and prioritise app requests.
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Analysed requests to try to help and analyse gaps.
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Proposed exploring whether AI could help with app packaging, and experimented.
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Offered direct support to the Cloudron team to discuss how "Cloudron's second decade can be even better — and crucially even more lucrative so as to support the mission"
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Suggested implementing incentive structures to grow the contributor base.
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Brought up the possibility of bounties to better reward developers.
And noted that "Cloudron is great. We love it. That's why we're here. And we care for it, too. That's why we speak up."
It's the owners prerogative to do with the company as they will. That's fine. I just find it a little frustrating to see the unfulfilled potential.
I'm sorry to offend. I'll back out of the forum.
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@eddowding said in Focus on Business Apps:
I'm sorry to offend. I'll back out of the forum
I don't think many are offended, no need to back out.
I'd agree that @scooke comment wasn't really fair for the reasons you outline.
Although like @scooke (and you too, really and most Cloudron users afaict) I'm personally pretty happy with how @staff do things now.
But I also agree there is still lots of unfulfilled potential.
But overall I really like that @girish & @nebulon don't seem to prioritise growth
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@jdaviescoates said in Focus on Business Apps:
But I also agree there is still lots of unfulfilled potential.
But overall I really like that @girish & @nebulon don't seem to prioritise growth
Yeah, CR as a platform still needs work. 8.2 is shaping up to be a good update, but backups and email have much room for improvement. Then, there’s multi-host and I’m not sure how that UI will look like but grouping apps and customizing the dashboard could use some love.
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@eddowding Reads like an AI-enhanced CV! Hope you get the job.
You are a paying customer of software (like @micmc @crazybrad), and it is not your burden to worry or deal with "unfulfilled potential". But this all comes across like y'all are devs on the team whose voice isn't being heard... what's next? Fashion or hairstyle advice for the actual devs? It's not in your realm of responsibility. But, clearly the presence of a functioning Forum and Voting system (compare with EasyPanel) has awoken in some of you the idea that something more must be done because you Identified and Verbalized Unrealized Avenues of Revenue Stream Based Primarily on Individual Felt-Needs (add that to your fine list). Fine, post your suggestion. Then, go on. Use Cloudron. Trust that the devs will read it and respond as they see fit for their vision of their product that they provide. But to then come back and question and accuse and question the devs of attitudes or (lack of) abilities (the general tone of this thread) because this or that hasn't been implemented in a time frame of your own is off-putting.
My point isn't to make you or anyone back out. I'm simply:
- Providing alternative perspectives to challenge assumptions and improve outcomes.
- Offering critical feedback to highlight areas of disagreement.
- Raising concerns to stimulate constructive debate and focus forum participation.
- Identifying and communicating differing viewpoints to enhance Cloudron.
- Actively questioning ideas to foster a more thorough evaluation of suggestions.
- Addressing discrepancies in perspective through engaging disagreement and dialogue.
Ultimately, the reason I am posting all this, is this: Some of you seem worried that Cloudron will eventually fail because the Cloudron Team isn't acting visibly enough on your Forum suggestions based on some supposed expertise you possess, whereas I'm worried the Cloudron Team will feel this ain't worth the hassle anymore (providing such an amazing tool at such an amazing price), and close up shop, or jack the prices and deal only with the Corporate level (where the stratospheric fees do warrant Jumping When They Say Jump).
I guess that puts us all on the same team! None of us want Cloudron to fail!!!
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@scooke Just chill man. @eddowding is not alone in thinking that way.
Nobody has said that Cloudron would fail.
We are just business owners that have hope that Cloudron become bigger and add more business-oriented apps. We want their success and we are here to encourage them to pursuit that path.
If they speak out loud and simply tell us they are not interested to grow that much, fine. We'll respect their decisions.
But if they are, they have a big community behind them that is ready to continue submitting feedback and even agreed to pay an extra (if required) on their subscriptions to allow the Cloudron team to expand and add more business apps.
I have no idea why some people here try to defend Cloudron due to that post?! This is everything but negative.
I initially created this post to show my interest in having more business apps and many others agreed with me. This simply means that the interests are shared among multiple users and that my feedback should be considered seriously.
To those who are not interested, why are you losing your time posting here? I'm just not getting the point. Cloudron has many different audiences from businesses to personal. If you are not targeted by this, just move on.
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imo the main issue in regards to new apps is the developer experience/on-boarding
Cloudron has had their own "standardized" method for packaging apps for many years now and have basically failed in facilitating a thriving marketplace for Open Source and new custom apps. Way before Supabase, Coolify and others "We"/Cloudron have had: Server/Runtime, Auth, DBs, Backups, DNS & so on readily available with absolutely no streamlined method to build an app using Add-On pieces and simply launch it.
This is the extent of it besides the docs
And don't get me started with the fact that we still don't have a single "no code/low code" APP/PAGE builder! No lie it makes me lose sleep at night...We can design a UI with Penpot, build databases with several options, build workflows with n8n, do AI stuff with Typebot/Open WebUI but I only have fucking wordpress to build a page!? (excuse my french & no offense WP but really!? it's basically 2025!!)
Ive been using Wappler over the past 4 years or so and even went as far as contracted a forum member Mitchelle to package the NodeJS app that Wappler outputs into a Cloudron package after trying and struggling for far longer than I'd like to admit. https://git.cloudron.io/murgero/wappler_app
Currently and Finally I have a decent tech stack that isn't missing a core/fundamental feature where I can have the assurance I need to build for and support clients but it could certainly be way more integrated than it is.Note: Wappler is not open source but does use an open stack and you own the output source*
There are plenty, maybe almost too many App/Page builders now to not have a single one on Cloudron: Budibase, NocoBase, Saltcron, Webstudio, Appsmith, and many more...shit, id even be mildly happy with GrapesJS at this point.Having met Girish in person and knowing the sheer engineering brilliance between you two I think the best path forward is to cultivate the current community and to streamline the ability for US to make an impact. For example making community positions or methods for us to contribute to Documentation, Press Releases, Video Content, Live Streams, 3rd Party Liaison, and IMO most importantly Education/Resources on Packaging Apps!
I know, I know before anyone says it! Sounds like a "skill issue" this is all just linux, docker and open standards, languages, protocols so you should know all of this already, its ASSumed that you do...and this is where the problem/current attitude toward "new apps" derives and resides.
Besides the Dev Exp the only other major issue is the lack of Docker Compose & Swarm for Multi Node implementation. This is the only other thing that also keeps me up at night. All this debating for years: To Kubernetes? or not? What about this hack with Distributed Replicated Storage System? Or maybe we roll or own? but that will take too long so no let's not do any of it. Meanwhile buddy over at Coolify wrote that functionality by himself, Twice!! And in half the amount of time we were talking about why we aren't using the most obvious implementation: DOCKER SWARM!!!
Its like three main functions: swarm init - take the addy/key and connect the server, update/redeploy. It's not a SpaceX mars mission guys and gals but we are officially late as fuck to the party.
https://forum.cloudron.io/topic/2990/3-node-deployment-unified-dashboardDon't mistake my passion for hate or anger
TLDR:
- App/Page Builder
- Better Docs/Dev Onboarding
- Compose & Swarm Implementation/Unified Dashboard
I pray this does not continue to fall on deaf ears...Especially since I am willing and able to contribute...
Everyone is here for a mutually beneficial relationship, let's keep that the focus or part ways amicably. -
Yeah, that would be a good thing! I built my first custom app inside Cloudron and this has been a real puzzle... My dev has over 20 years of experience and due to the lack of documentation and no clear explanations, we needed to contact the support a few times. The support has been really helpful... Glad they were there otherwise we would still be probably stuck today.
A good example is n8n... What they are doing on Youtube is just amazing! Have a look at their Youtube channel, they have plenty of videos where they educate users and this has a lot of success.
I think Cloudron should do something like this... and even create a "community apps marketplace" where people can share their custom apps.
That would be greatly welcomed.
