Zulip - Powerful open source group chat
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@scooke I gave up on that quest a long time ago.
People resist anything they think is effort or unpopular. That's why hyper-scaling capitalism has been so successful and every social media platform a business is expected to be on the ones from the hyper-growth capitalism capital of the tech world.
I see people using WhatsApp and Messenger as no different to people that work production lines to make my devices and clothing. Most just don't want to know any different, as then they'd have to be unsatisfied with their status quo.
It's more valuable for business to keep people believing, and do whatever it takes to retain those "users" (ironic term considering it is also common in describing drug addicts), than it is for them to try lesser-known alternatives, regardless of their superior privacy. So you're competing against an industry of global indoctrination as a business model in that persuasion endeavour.
For me it's:
Nextcloud Talk for all business and organisation ventures.
Signal for my friends and family that care about privacy, although that also has its issues, mainly in lack of ability to export data.
Mattermost + Element I believe has some traction with UK Government using it, and perhaps others, but even I found it confusing to get working at first.
WhatEver for everyone else that's too lazy to care about their own freedom and finds more comfort in giving their value to brands.
It baffles me how many people I care about are addicted to diet sodas, too, but regardless of caring, they just don't see the harm, and worse see anyone's attempts to divert them from such perceived minor vices as an attack on their freedom to choose, even if they know it's a junk brand, it gives them comfort because popularity feels safer than healthy to many.
@marcusquinn said in Zulip - Powerful open source group chat:
People resist anything they think is effort or unpopular.
That is so true! People never seem to ask themselves, "which is the wisest way?" only "which is the popular and easiest?"
If you are first mover, you will, for a while, be the most popular way.
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We're using Zulip and it's incredible. The organization of channels into sub-topics is perfect. The LaTeX integration is also huge for us. It has some nice quality of life features and just generally works really well for us. Cloudron integration would be great.
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Telegram is in the news lately and people are looking for alternatives. Support for Zulip on Cloudron would be timely and might bring in quite a large number of new users.
https://github.com/zulip/docker-zulip
@LoudLemur said in Zulip - Powerful open source group chat:
Support for Zulip on Cloudron would be timely and might bring in quite a large number of new users.
If this gets on Cloudron "soon", I'll do all I can do promote Cloudron and Zulip!!! Maybe I'll even use my code.
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I am seeing more and more open source apps charging for certain features. I think this is becoming the norm rather than the exception. And Zulip is just one of many. As mentioned by others, $3.50/user/mo for mobile push notifications seems like a small price to pay. Without mentioning the Zulip competitor I am currently using, its rates are substantially more per user per month. Count me in on this one!
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As for Chat alternatives I'd by now recommend Matrix. I've been using it for a few years for personal communication and it's been a bit of a painful growth but can say that it's probably the best choice currently. I'ts free and I don't really see that changing since Element seems to have a good portion of paying customers and the new mobile apps are quite snappy. I've been test running them for a week or two and they feel super responsive and intuitive, very much like one would expect from a Telegram alternative.
NC Talk is great but really is more of a business solution.
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I'm self-hosting Zulip and would love to see it packaged for Cloudron. I'm open to sponsoring the work or contracting someone to make this happen. If anyone from the community or the Cloudron team is interested, please reach out to alex[at]modos.tech, and we can figure out the details together. Thanks.
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@alex-a-soto Great idea. I'm interested. Let's see if anyone else has a similar interest. In either case, I will reach out as you suggested.
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I was sure that Cloudron had started supporting Zulip. I looked for it and was surprised that it is still not there.
Improvements have been considerable since the original request. Lets support Zulip!
Based on the search results, here are the main advances in Zulip since March 2018 categorized by client and server improvements:
Server Improvements
Performance & Scalability (2018-2025)
- Reworked message feed rendering with improved client-side caching for instant rendering of recently visited views
- Optimized presence synchronization protocol using dramatically less network/CPU resources in large organizations
- Squashed almost 700 database migrations to optimize new database creation runtime
- Improved performance of creating channels with thousands of initial subscribers
- Replaced
pipwithuvfor better dependency management - Implemented
typed_endpointabstraction backed by Pydantic v2 for improved performance and readability
Security & Privacy (2020-2025)
- Added end-to-end encryption (E2EE) for mobile push notifications
- Hardened message-fetching code path against access control bugs
- Added server-to-server Zoom integration with better security
- Improved LDAP integration with better user role synchronization
- Added data export features with member consent controls
- Fixed multiple CVEs including authentication bypass and channel permission issues
File Management (2021-2025)
- Added TUS chunked-upload protocol support for arbitrarily large files
- Increased default MAX_FILE_UPLOAD_SIZE from 25MB to 100MB+
- Added support for HEIC and TIFF image thumbnails
- Improved video previews with better play button experience
Administration & Management (2019-2025)
- Channel archiving now preserves names and content access (with unarchiving support)
- Group-based permissions system with granular channel controls
- SCIM integration for user synchronization
- Custom welcome messages for new users
- Automated mobile push notification service registration
- Improved user role management and permission systems
Client Improvements
User Interface (2020-2025)
- Channel folders for organizing team channels
- Recent topics view for channel overview
- Improved left sidebar with search filters and unread count controls
- Cleaner image/video thumbnail layouts
- Enhanced message composition with better destination visualization
- Modernized settings UI with minimal, clean design
Messaging Experience (2019-2025)
- Message reminders functionality
- Support for channels without topics
- Bulk message management (mark as read for muted topics)
- Improved search with better operators and filters
- Pasting large text now convertible to uploaded files
- Read receipts and user status/availability
Mobile App (2021-2025)
- Complete rewrite with modern architecture
- Added search, status, read receipts, and sharing features
- End-to-end encrypted push notifications
- Autocomplete for user group mentions
- Broader TeX math support
Integration Ecosystem (2018-2025)
- Added integrations with OpenProject, OpenSearch, Airbyte, Onyx
- Improved GitHub, GitLab, Jotform, Linear, NewRelic integrations
- Removed deprecated integrations (OpsBeat, Desk.com)
- Enhanced SAML and Microsoft Entra ID authentication
The platform has evolved from a basic chat system to a comprehensive team collaboration platform with enterprise-grade security, scalability, and user experience improvements across all clients.
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@scooke There is a relatively new (and strange) restriction on "open source" community edition rocketchat: only 25 users. Sessions are restricted, too.
@LoudLemur I tried RocketChat once; I think I liked the layout and functions, but it was ssslllooowwww, compared to Mattermost and Matrix/Element. But what I've seen, and tried, with Zulip really makes me want to use it!
