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Everyone here has A LOT to hide. If you're a Sys Admin, all those keys to kingdoms you have could yield great value or damage in the wrong hands.
Doesn't matter how secure we are if social-engineering can get to our stuff through our peers.
Aside from that, hopefully my blog post above explains a lot of other things to think about for how all our peers devices can gather data on us no matter how secure we are personally, so it will only be a whole society movement that plugs those holes, and I'm sure many here are happy to help friends and family do that if it is the seeds for a greater migration.
@marcusquinn Agreed. Everyone who says they have nothing to hide doesn't quite realize the potential that can come from companies having even just basic details on you.
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Dustin Dauncey
www.d19.ca -
@marcusquinn Agreed. Everyone who says they have nothing to hide doesn't quite realize the potential that can come from companies having even just basic details on you.
@d19dotca The most obvious one now is censorship, since your view of the curated online world is tailored to show you what you are most likely to engage with, and we're all seeing a different view. Add to that the profiling on how influential you are, so targeting the most influential people then turns them into propaganda gophers. We're all in database tables somewhere now as a statistically significant type of some kind or another.
Web Design https://www.evergreen.je
Development https://brandlight.org
Life https://marcusquinn.com -
@d19dotca The most obvious one now is censorship, since your view of the curated online world is tailored to show you what you are most likely to engage with, and we're all seeing a different view. Add to that the profiling on how influential you are, so targeting the most influential people then turns them into propaganda gophers. We're all in database tables somewhere now as a statistically significant type of some kind or another.
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@humptydumpty Not sure if that was really meant to be directed at me or not
haha because yeah, I agree with your points on the "I don't have anything to hide" part, that's been something I've argued for years with people and fully support that it should never be about if someone has something to hide or not.What do you prefer to use over Signal though in that case if it doesn't quite past muster for you? Always open to alternatives.
@d19dotca lol no, it wasn't directed at you but that argument is what I'm used to hear when I try to educate my family and friends about data privacy. My first choice would be Matrix and Signal would be my second. But, I don't use my phone except for calling, 2FA TOTP, and email (Mail iOS app) so I never really bothered to look into it that much. I practically live on my PC so securing Windows (MS is probably the worst offender of them all) is my main concern. I'm forced to use Windows because of the CAD/CAM software that I have. I had no luck running them with Wine but I do have Pop!_OS on different drive and a stack of raspberry pi 4's for NAS (OMV5), PiVPN, PiHole, and one dedicated for fooling around with
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@marcusquinn Agreed. Everyone who says they have nothing to hide doesn't quite realize the potential that can come from companies having even just basic details on you.
@d19dotca Yes! I scared the living **** out of my family when I asked them to search their full name to see what they come up with. Every few months, I do this and go through the removal process on all these sites for my whole family. It's a PITA since they try to hide the opt-out form but you learn their tricks and the process becomes easier. I wouldn't be surprised if these sites were all operated by the same scummy group because their websites have a lot of similarities with each other.
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@d19dotca lol no, it wasn't directed at you but that argument is what I'm used to hear when I try to educate my family and friends about data privacy. My first choice would be Matrix and Signal would be my second. But, I don't use my phone except for calling, 2FA TOTP, and email (Mail iOS app) so I never really bothered to look into it that much. I practically live on my PC so securing Windows (MS is probably the worst offender of them all) is my main concern. I'm forced to use Windows because of the CAD/CAM software that I have. I had no luck running them with Wine but I do have Pop!_OS on different drive and a stack of raspberry pi 4's for NAS (OMV5), PiVPN, PiHole, and one dedicated for fooling around with
@humptydumpty said in Best privacy chat apps:
I'm forced to use Windows because of the CAD/CAM software that I have
Hope this helps!
https://alternativeto.net/tag/cad/?license=opensource&platform=linux -
@humptydumpty said in Best privacy chat apps:
I'm forced to use Windows because of the CAD/CAM software that I have
Hope this helps!
https://alternativeto.net/tag/cad/?license=opensource&platform=linux@hillside502 Thank you but I wish it was as simple as finding an alternative CAD program. I have multiple plugins that are specific to the industry and software I'm using. Without these plugins, my work would take x10 as long to complete.
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@hillside502 Thank you but I wish it was as simple as finding an alternative CAD program. I have multiple plugins that are specific to the industry and software I'm using. Without these plugins, my work would take x10 as long to complete.
@humptydumpty that's what VMs and containers are for. Containers run in Windows just fine.
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Wow - Elon Musk celebrated his newly found ranking with a nice kick in the Zuckerburgs!
Follow my tweets on Signal here if you care: https://twitter.com/marcuswquinn
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I reckon the fediverse is gonna get more interest following recent FB & Twitter self-determination as censors.
Web Design https://www.evergreen.je
Development https://brandlight.org
Life https://marcusquinn.com -
I reckon the fediverse is gonna get more interest following recent FB & Twitter self-determination as censors.
@marcusquinn said in Best privacy chat apps:
following recent FB & Twitter self-determination as censors.
?
They are private companies and under no obligation to uphold the First Amendment (US). They are protected by Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, which exempts them from being treated as publishers and both protects them from liability and allows them to regulate content as they see fit.We can certainly have a discussion if (i) these platforms have reached a monopoly - and hence have an undue influence on public speech - that needs regulation and / or (ii) they should indeed be treated like publishers or the press with all the freedoms and obligations - such as fact checking - attached to it.
Don't get me wrong, I hate these platforms and what they stand for with a passion and am certain that we would all be better off if Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, etc. were turned off and deleted at once. Giving people and their opinions an unfettered platform has not improved the quality of opinion-forming and discussion but made it so much worse.
In any event, the "freedom of speech" is not an absolute right, neither in the US nor in most countries in the Western hemisphere. Like most constitutional rights they are - as a general rule - limited by the rights of your fellow citizen.
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@robi said in Best privacy chat apps:
Telegram seems to be upholding their censorship free platform so far..
... and thus has attracted extremist, neo-nazis and covid deniers...
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@robi said in Best privacy chat apps:
Telegram seems to be upholding their censorship free platform so far..
... and thus has attracted extremist, neo-nazis and covid deniers...
@necrevistonnezr ... and thus law enforcement can learn, find and handle as-is their role.
I don't fancy law enforcement that also has a stock ticker to please.
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Chatting with @humptydumpty about alternatives to Discord, so thought I'd share my conclusions:
- Signal seems the easiest for people used to Whatsapp, Discord, Messenger, Whatever
- Telegram seems good but Signal being open-source seems better.
- Matrix / Element / Mattermost - too quirky and poor mobile experience.
- Rocket.Chat the best of our current Cloudron options but higher RAM needs.
- Jitsi & Jami look like the best of the App Wishlist alternatives.
- Tox looks OKish for desktop but no mobile.
Hope that helps some - anything better than the above I've missed?
After watching a video of the
I started (WIP) a comparative of Android Chat/Call Application, my focus was privacy and anonymity.- Potentially Dangerous Persmissions numbers comes from the project Exodus
- Pii: means you need to use a Personal identifiable information such as a phone number and/or an email
Proprietary Apps
Apps Trackers Potentially Dangerous Permissions Require Pii Note Facebook Messenger 4 4 yes (email/phone number) It don't just use Facebook tracker, but also Google Analytics Line Lite 1 6 yes (phone number) Use Google Firebase Analytics Facebook Messenger Lite 1 7 yes (email/phone number) Use Google Analytics Google Duo 1 9 yes (email) Use Google Analytics Snapchat 3 10 Google AdMob WhatsApp 1 13 yes (phone number) Use Google Analytics and it is own by Facebook WeChat 5 13 Use Google Firebase Analytics, Facebook Analytics, Facebook Login and Facebook Share Skype 5 13 Use Google Firebase Analytics and Microsoft VS App Center Crashes, Microsoft VS App Center Analytics Line 4 14 yes (phone number) Use Google Analytics, Google AdMob, Facebook Login and Facebook Share Telegram 2 15 yes (phone number) Use Google Firebase Analytics and Microsoft VS App Center Crashes Skype Lite 4 16 Use Google Firebase Analytics and Microsoft VS App Center Crashes, Microsoft VS App Center Analytics Viber 10 16 yes (phone number) Use Google Firebase Analytics, Google AdMob, Google CrashLytics, Twitter MoPub and Yandex Ad Telegram X 3 17 yes (phone number) Use Google Firebase Analytics and Google AdMob Open Source Project to consider
Apps Trackers Potentially Dangerous Permissions Require Pii Note Briar 0 2 no Probably the best one for pseudo-anonymity. Jitsi Meet 0 4 optional Great alternative to Zoom Nextcloud Talk 0 4 require login (username, email) + server side could be self-hosted Jami 0 5 optional Element 0 8 require login (username) + server side could be self-hosted Linphone 0 9 yes (phone number) Signal 0 19 yes (phone number) Mattermost 1 3 require login (username) + server side could be self-hosted + could be use as a gateway to others services. Wire 1 7 yes (email) At the end, the best is to host your own Nextcloud and convince your friend to come on your Nextcloud Talk
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Someone just pinged me this link on Twitter, seems to be reasonable info:
I saw someone saying the old "I have nothing to hide", although the obviously creep-ware that all these things do help hide is targeted advertising.
Who wants to be "targeted" and have others pay to directly target them with a calculation that makes it more probable to profit from that targeting?
Admittedly, I used to see this as legitimate business but the balance of cost and value to society doesn't seem to be in-line with efficiency and balance in relationships, so I'm personally backing away from all business that is dependent on paid advertising in preference for focusing on editorial value and self-challenging communities with a common interest in value over sales.
Web Design https://www.evergreen.je
Development https://brandlight.org
Life https://marcusquinn.com -
After watching a video of the
I started (WIP) a comparative of Android Chat/Call Application, my focus was privacy and anonymity.- Potentially Dangerous Persmissions numbers comes from the project Exodus
- Pii: means you need to use a Personal identifiable information such as a phone number and/or an email
Proprietary Apps
Apps Trackers Potentially Dangerous Permissions Require Pii Note Facebook Messenger 4 4 yes (email/phone number) It don't just use Facebook tracker, but also Google Analytics Line Lite 1 6 yes (phone number) Use Google Firebase Analytics Facebook Messenger Lite 1 7 yes (email/phone number) Use Google Analytics Google Duo 1 9 yes (email) Use Google Analytics Snapchat 3 10 Google AdMob WhatsApp 1 13 yes (phone number) Use Google Analytics and it is own by Facebook WeChat 5 13 Use Google Firebase Analytics, Facebook Analytics, Facebook Login and Facebook Share Skype 5 13 Use Google Firebase Analytics and Microsoft VS App Center Crashes, Microsoft VS App Center Analytics Line 4 14 yes (phone number) Use Google Analytics, Google AdMob, Facebook Login and Facebook Share Telegram 2 15 yes (phone number) Use Google Firebase Analytics and Microsoft VS App Center Crashes Skype Lite 4 16 Use Google Firebase Analytics and Microsoft VS App Center Crashes, Microsoft VS App Center Analytics Viber 10 16 yes (phone number) Use Google Firebase Analytics, Google AdMob, Google CrashLytics, Twitter MoPub and Yandex Ad Telegram X 3 17 yes (phone number) Use Google Firebase Analytics and Google AdMob Open Source Project to consider
Apps Trackers Potentially Dangerous Permissions Require Pii Note Briar 0 2 no Probably the best one for pseudo-anonymity. Jitsi Meet 0 4 optional Great alternative to Zoom Nextcloud Talk 0 4 require login (username, email) + server side could be self-hosted Jami 0 5 optional Element 0 8 require login (username) + server side could be self-hosted Linphone 0 9 yes (phone number) Signal 0 19 yes (phone number) Mattermost 1 3 require login (username) + server side could be self-hosted + could be use as a gateway to others services. Wire 1 7 yes (email) At the end, the best is to host your own Nextcloud and convince your friend to come on your Nextcloud Talk
@jodumont you comparison does not take into account whether or not the messages are encrypted. I personally think it's the most important feature to take into account.
Also, take a look at Olvid. I don't use it personally, but I heard good things.
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After watching a video of the
I started (WIP) a comparative of Android Chat/Call Application, my focus was privacy and anonymity.- Potentially Dangerous Persmissions numbers comes from the project Exodus
- Pii: means you need to use a Personal identifiable information such as a phone number and/or an email
Proprietary Apps
Apps Trackers Potentially Dangerous Permissions Require Pii Note Facebook Messenger 4 4 yes (email/phone number) It don't just use Facebook tracker, but also Google Analytics Line Lite 1 6 yes (phone number) Use Google Firebase Analytics Facebook Messenger Lite 1 7 yes (email/phone number) Use Google Analytics Google Duo 1 9 yes (email) Use Google Analytics Snapchat 3 10 Google AdMob WhatsApp 1 13 yes (phone number) Use Google Analytics and it is own by Facebook WeChat 5 13 Use Google Firebase Analytics, Facebook Analytics, Facebook Login and Facebook Share Skype 5 13 Use Google Firebase Analytics and Microsoft VS App Center Crashes, Microsoft VS App Center Analytics Line 4 14 yes (phone number) Use Google Analytics, Google AdMob, Facebook Login and Facebook Share Telegram 2 15 yes (phone number) Use Google Firebase Analytics and Microsoft VS App Center Crashes Skype Lite 4 16 Use Google Firebase Analytics and Microsoft VS App Center Crashes, Microsoft VS App Center Analytics Viber 10 16 yes (phone number) Use Google Firebase Analytics, Google AdMob, Google CrashLytics, Twitter MoPub and Yandex Ad Telegram X 3 17 yes (phone number) Use Google Firebase Analytics and Google AdMob Open Source Project to consider
Apps Trackers Potentially Dangerous Permissions Require Pii Note Briar 0 2 no Probably the best one for pseudo-anonymity. Jitsi Meet 0 4 optional Great alternative to Zoom Nextcloud Talk 0 4 require login (username, email) + server side could be self-hosted Jami 0 5 optional Element 0 8 require login (username) + server side could be self-hosted Linphone 0 9 yes (phone number) Signal 0 19 yes (phone number) Mattermost 1 3 require login (username) + server side could be self-hosted + could be use as a gateway to others services. Wire 1 7 yes (email) At the end, the best is to host your own Nextcloud and convince your friend to come on your Nextcloud Talk
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Someone just pinged me this link on Twitter, seems to be reasonable info:
I saw someone saying the old "I have nothing to hide", although the obviously creep-ware that all these things do help hide is targeted advertising.
Who wants to be "targeted" and have others pay to directly target them with a calculation that makes it more probable to profit from that targeting?
Admittedly, I used to see this as legitimate business but the balance of cost and value to society doesn't seem to be in-line with efficiency and balance in relationships, so I'm personally backing away from all business that is dependent on paid advertising in preference for focusing on editorial value and self-challenging communities with a common interest in value over sales.
@marcusquinn said in Best privacy chat apps:
Admittedly, I used to see this as legitimate business but the balance of cost and value to society doesn't seem to be in-line with efficiency and balance in relationships, so I'm personally backing away from all business that is dependent on paid advertising in preference for focusing on editorial value and self-challenging communities with a common interest in value over sales.
In another project we've come up with a business model that preserves privacy yet allows for getting paid for receiving advertising that is relevant to ones interests, if so desired.
If everyone participated, it would be akin to a UBI with abundance.
