How do I safely upgrade/update?

CryptoAnarchyT

I'm used to just running sudo apt-get upgrade/update but the login message warns me against this.

30 updates can be applied immediately.
1 of these updates is a standard security update.
To see these additional updates run: apt list --upgradable

**********************************************************************

			NOTE TO CLOUDRON ADMINS
			-----------------------
Please do not run apt upgrade manually as it will update packages that
Cloudron relies on and may break your installation. Ubuntu security updates
are automatically installed on this server every night.

Read more at https://docs.cloudron.io/security/#os-updates

For help and more information, visit https://forum.cloudron.io

**********************************************************************

*** System restart required ***

Also if I uninstall cloudron does this remove rocket.chat and ghost?

timconsidine

@cryptoanarchyt As I understand it, cloudron takes care of all OS updates, hence the warning.

If you're wanting to upgrade apps, then again Cloudron will do this automatically. Except for custom-packaged apps.

What packages on the OS or what apps are you thinking you need or want to update ?

nebulon

@cryptoanarchyt we show this message since installing/updating packages via apt manually will eventually break your Cloudron installation as we have seen in the past.

Security updates will be applied automatically though, everything else is updated with Cloudron releases. The apps as such can be updated by Cloudron independently also, apt has no idea about those.

Further there is no real "uninstallation" of Cloudron since it will essentially take over the whole system and because re-installation of Ubuntu or simply booting a new virtual image is so convenient nowadays, we are not aiming to provide any clean uninstallation process.

CryptoAnarchyT

@timconsidine said in How do I safely upgrade/update?:

@cryptoanarchyt As I understand it, cloudron takes care of all OS updates, hence the warning.

If you're wanting to upgrade apps, then again Cloudron will do this automatically. Except for custom-packaged apps.

What packages on the OS or what apps are you thinking you need or want to update ?

Nothing in particular I am just a novice and regular updates are just ingrained in me when I login. (maybe from my arch days)

@nebulon said in How do I safely upgrade/update?:

@cryptoanarchyt we show this message since installing/updating packages via apt manually will eventually break your Cloudron installation as we have seen in the past.

Security updates will be applied automatically though, everything else is updated with Cloudron releases. The apps as such can be updated by Cloudron independently also, apt has no idea about those.

Further there is no real "uninstallation" of Cloudron since it will essentially take over the whole system and because re-installation of Ubuntu or simply booting a new virtual image is so convenient nowadays, we are not aiming to provide any clean uninstallation process.

This is unfortunate. I purchased a deal from SSD nodes for 3 years and was hoping to get away from monthly fees. I was using cloudron to test spin some things. I guess I'll have to start over and install them myself. Though that's for the best so that I can gather a fundamental understanding. Amazing product! Unfortunately just not for my (lack of a) budget at the moment.

Time to learn docker!

timconsidine

@cryptoanarchyt said in How do I safely upgrade/update?:

regular updates are just ingrained in me when I login.

so you can enjoy being free from this routine burden with Cloudron ! I hardly ever login into Cloudron VPS. I use a mounted drive or Forklift SSH file access if I need to reach a directory.

FYI my Cloudron instance is on SSDNODES 3 year deal. It's my stable 'production' environment, and the annual Cloudron fee (much more sensible than monthly) is an easily justified time-saver.
And I have another SSDNODES on similar for "playing" with non-cloudron docker apps.

EDIT : for the sake of accuracy, I no longer SSDNODES for production unless low volume. My Cloudron is now on Hetzner ... although they are raising prices, may have to review the market

bscabl

What if I log into grub and do updates ya know.. kernal...apps.. normal ubuntu updates? or will those now happen automatically as well.

timconsidine

@bscabl Cloudron takes of it

scooke

@CryptoAnarchyT if you did run those upgrades yourself, you'd quickly experience the second half of your username!! Or maybe chaos would be more apt. Welcome aboard!

bscabl

@timconsidine hmmm its said i had an update available for two days.. i guess i will leave it for now. [not certain what the update is.. i didnt look]

bscabl

actually looks like one is ubuntu core stuff python related and one is chrome [i looked in grub because in the gui i can look but NOT click install now.. ]
but it still says no updates in cloudron..

first image is boxlog second is at ssh into shell

girish

@bscabl cloudron updates are not delivered via apt/dpkg. You have to go to Cloudron dashboard -> Settings -> Check For Updates.

bscabl

@girish i did.. thus the boxlog that showed none available.. tho.. something happened overnight as now it just says 1 avail.. I will leave well enough alone so I dont break it lol

scooke

@bscabl Cloudron frees you from the drudgery that is cli maintenance of your server. It does it all. So kick back, sip your coffee, and install everything with your wireless keyboard!

I've got a few other VPS (ethernet, racknerd, servarica, one of those KS-1s...) though just to keep my cli skills functioning.

bscabl

@scooke eh.. I still think its not updating in the background like it should... Logged in today to:

and going into cloudron and telling it to check for updates still tells me no updates found. [under settings/updates]

jdaviescoates

@bscabl it seems you are getting rather confused.

Checking for updates within Cloudron has nothing whatsoever to do with Ubuntu updates, it is ONLY to do with updates to Cloudron itself and/ or updates to the apps you've installed within Cloudron.

wrt Ubuntu updates, as the message says security updates to Ubuntu are automatically applied by Cloudron every night but other updates may not be applied because they may not be compatible with/ tested with Cloudron. At least that is my understanding.

Is that correct @Staff?

But, in short, as @scooke has said, you don't really ever need to ssh into your server with Cloudron (and you should never run the Ubuntu update you see there on the very odd occasion you might need to login to the server - I've maybe done so around 5 times in the last 2 years - because if you do you may well break things), just sit back and enjoy how easy things are with Cloudron.

PS as and aside, I could be wrong, but it looks like perhaps you're logging into your server using a password instead of just using ssh. I'd recommend disabling logging in with a password to improve security.

nebulon

@jdaviescoates that is correct, the security updates published from Ubuntu as unattended updates are enabled and thus automatically applied, all other updates should not be installed manually as they may break Cloudron, which sometimes requires specific versions. Anyways if an update of an Ubuntu package is required, then we will do this in a Cloudron update for you.

scooke

@bscabl As the others repeated above, you no longer need to ssh in to the server and run apt-get upgrade. You can... let it go

And yes, USE KEYS!!

I have a late morning for work, which has induced a sort of giddiness in me...hence the gifs.

bscabl

@jdaviescoates you cant access SSH on my server outside my network....I dont have the port forwarded.

scooke

@CryptoAnarchyT said in How do I safely upgrade/update?:

This is unfortunate. I purchased a deal from SSD nodes for 3 years and was hoping to get away from monthly fees. I was using cloudron to test spin some things. I guess I'll have to start over and install them myself. Though that's for the best so that I can gather a fundamental understanding. Amazing product! Unfortunately just not for my (lack of a) budget at the moment.
Time to learn docker!

The front page of cloudron.io hsa this:

We publish latest releases within days and security fixes within 24h for apps and the server via the Cloudron App Store. This makes maintenance of your private cloud hassle-free and cost effective.

What is it that you think Cloudron is and does? What other service have you used, like Cloudron, where the user is expected to keep things up to date? Heck, not even Yunohost expects that, nor Caprover. You install Cloudron on a fresh server, and it manages everything for you. That's the point. You don't need to go learn Docker. THAT is why Cloudron exists, so users don't (well, it is useful to know something, for example a few rare times I've had to SSH into the server and then go into a container to tweak something, but oh so rare since even in those use-cases Cloudron's Dashboard allows the user to work inside the images). And your point about uninstalling... why in the world would you not reprovision a server if you are changing its purpose? Cloudron doesn't need to do uninstall itself when you don't want it. You just start over, setup the server again, as is normal practice.
I think you are walking away from exactly the product you want, if you give up on Cloudron now.

fbartels

@scooke said in How do I safely upgrade/update?:

The front page of cloudron.io hsa this:

FYI: that guy has not responded to this topic since September last year

scooke

@fbartels thanks for that. I was getting caught up in a missionary fervor!

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