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There is absolutely NOTHING else available that will make using the apps available on Cloudron doable and, frankly, safe. Any potential dangers stem not from Cloudron's side, but from some inherent (and as-of-yet undiscovered) weakness in any given app. If you think your status as a non-coder puts normal, day-to-day use of Cloudron out of reach, then quite honestly you are better served by paying for O365 or Google Worksuite. (Even then, there are hacks out there that weaken these paid-for services!)
To be honest, paying for someone else to have installed and run Cloudron (Windcloud) is already something of a risk because you are trusting them to run, install, and maintain Cloudron according to Cloudron's own Best Practices. As you peruse this forum you will find many problems stem from users doing things to their server which they should be letting Cloudron do (security updates, etc.) Hopefully WindCloud doesn't mess things up. You will likely find though that even Cloudron, as amazing as it is, is still limited by RAM and processor, so if you are on the S plan, for example, you only have 4GB ram - not a whole lot, and will probably manage to run about 3-6 apps well. This isn't a Cloudron problem though, it's just how things work.
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Fellow noob here! I've been in your shoes, and it's scary when you don't know if you did things right or not. I've been using Cloudron for over 2 years now, and it's been amazing. I've successfully (and headache-free might I say) switched hosts and restored complete Cloudrons (+20 apps) using the backups that Cloudron auto-created.
Likewise, I frequent these forums and annoy the heck out of the staff and the knowledgeable community here (sorry guys), but I've learned a lot by reading posts and seeing what went wrong and how it was fixed. I suggest signing up for a GitHub account, because any issues are more than likely an upstream bug, and it's best if you report it yourself on the app's GitHub page.
Once you're comfortable with your Cloudron on a VPS, I suggest setting up a home server. For me, that's when things started to make sense and I had a better understanding of firewalls, networking, etc. In short, setting-up/running a Cloudron seems daunting, but in reality, it's a breeze!
Tip: Use S3 for your server/app backups (like BackBlaze). Do NOT use the same drive on your server. If your VPS supports it, create an image of your VPS periodically and before any major updates (in case you need to wipe your VPS because of a bad IP reputation, etc.) Do those two things, and you're golden.
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If you are open to keep learning, stick with it.
If not, you can use moocloud.ch which is a Cloudron partner, and takes care of it for you as a Managed Service Provider (MSP).
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G girish moved this topic from Support on
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@Bytepartner To add to what others have already said, don't hesitate to ask questions, however simple, in threads that you don't understand. We (the whole community) are happy to clarify and help out. By nature of selfhosting, as it is today, Cloudron still needs some technical know how. You don't need to be an expert but need to have basic knowledge of servers. This can be learnt quite quickly.
Also, this reminded me of our issue #1 - selfhosting for mortals . Our goal was and still is to "Let's build a world where everyone stores their data in an infrastructure of their choosing." . 'everyone' here means anyone who is willing to put in some effort towards their data sovereignty
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@Bytepartner said in Does it make sense for someone like me to use Cloudron?:
I can't even judge whether "my" Vaultwarden is now unsafe, whether I / you need to take action as described in the post, or whether it's a specific problem that doesn't affect me at all or that I can neglect?
I took a look at this, as I have Vaultwarden too.
To answer your question and give you some confidence in your installation, you can do a couple of things without any intervention in the terminal.First, just open your Vaultwarden in the browser : click on the URL of the instance that is showing in your portal
At the bottom, there is an option to create an account.
Scary - we don't others on our Valutwarden instance (unless we have invited them).
Click on the link and fill in the form with dummy date (e.g. a spare email address) to create an account.
Hopefully you will get an error message in red box, saying signups not allowed or duplicate account.
If so, then you should have nothing to worry about, and you do not need to edit any files as per 1st part of @girish post.
If it does create an account, then you need to do something.
I will leave explaining that to another post, but you can actually solve this issue without using the terminal, which is the scary bit for you.Second, the bit in @girish post which had scary terminal instructions.
Use the settings cog wheel in top right of the vaultwarden app panel to open the app's configuration screen.
There you can use the 2nd icon in from the right on the top line calledFile Manager.
Just click this and it will show a list of files and folders.
Double clickconfig.jsonto open the file and view its contents.
If your admin password is shown in plain text in one of the values, then you need to do something.
If not, then close this file with no changes (i.e. do not press Save).
Repeat this for confidence with the fileconfig.env.
If you don't see your admin password listed in plain text, then you're good and don't need to worry about following the terminal instructions.@Bytepartner, does this make sense ?
Does anyone want to contradict or improve this answer ?@timconsidine : Hi Thank you so much for reading, for looking and for taking the trouble to write it down so patiently in simple language for me. I appreciate it very much. I'll try to follow up and get back to you. Thanks again!
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@girish @humptydumpty @Kubernetes @lukas @robi @scooke @timconsidine
Dear all!
Thank you for all your answers!!!
I conclude from them (very abbreviated):
If I want to use Cloudron with a reasonably safe feeling, then I either need to go deeper into the matter of SERVER-ADMINISTRATION than I have done so far. Or I need a Cloudron admin I can trust.
Hm. I'll have to think about it some more.
In any case, thank you sincerely for your time and comments.
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@Bytepartner said in Does it make sense for someone like me to use Cloudron?:
I can't even judge whether "my" Vaultwarden is now unsafe, whether I / you need to take action as described in the post, or whether it's a specific problem that doesn't affect me at all or that I can neglect?
I took a look at this, as I have Vaultwarden too.
To answer your question and give you some confidence in your installation, you can do a couple of things without any intervention in the terminal.First, just open your Vaultwarden in the browser : click on the URL of the instance that is showing in your portal
At the bottom, there is an option to create an account.
Scary - we don't others on our Valutwarden instance (unless we have invited them).
Click on the link and fill in the form with dummy date (e.g. a spare email address) to create an account.
Hopefully you will get an error message in red box, saying signups not allowed or duplicate account.
If so, then you should have nothing to worry about, and you do not need to edit any files as per 1st part of @girish post.
If it does create an account, then you need to do something.
I will leave explaining that to another post, but you can actually solve this issue without using the terminal, which is the scary bit for you.Second, the bit in @girish post which had scary terminal instructions.
Use the settings cog wheel in top right of the vaultwarden app panel to open the app's configuration screen.
There you can use the 2nd icon in from the right on the top line calledFile Manager.
Just click this and it will show a list of files and folders.
Double clickconfig.jsonto open the file and view its contents.
If your admin password is shown in plain text in one of the values, then you need to do something.
If not, then close this file with no changes (i.e. do not press Save).
Repeat this for confidence with the fileconfig.env.
If you don't see your admin password listed in plain text, then you're good and don't need to worry about following the terminal instructions.@Bytepartner, does this make sense ?
Does anyone want to contradict or improve this answer ?@timconsidine Allright: THANK YOU – I checked both and everything looks okay
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excellent !
personally I think you can be 'reasonably safe' with a standard Cloudron deployment
as you have seen, help is available
good luck with the decision -
@girish @humptydumpty @Kubernetes @lukas @robi @scooke @timconsidine
Dear all!
Thank you for all your answers!!!
I conclude from them (very abbreviated):
If I want to use Cloudron with a reasonably safe feeling, then I either need to go deeper into the matter of SERVER-ADMINISTRATION than I have done so far. Or I need a Cloudron admin I can trust.
Hm. I'll have to think about it some more.
In any case, thank you sincerely for your time and comments.
@Bytepartner said in Does it make sense for someone like me to use Cloudron?:
SERVER-ADMINISTRATION
There is a very limited need to very occasionally be able to do something in the command line either using Cloudron's built in Web Terminal or by logging into your server.
So yeah, you need to be a little be OK with doing command line stuff. But I wouldn't say you really need to know anything at all about server administration
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@girish @humptydumpty @Kubernetes @lukas @robi @scooke @timconsidine
Dear all!
Thank you for all your answers!!!
I conclude from them (very abbreviated):
If I want to use Cloudron with a reasonably safe feeling, then I either need to go deeper into the matter of SERVER-ADMINISTRATION than I have done so far. Or I need a Cloudron admin I can trust.
Hm. I'll have to think about it some more.
In any case, thank you sincerely for your time and comments.
@Bytepartner said in Does it make sense for someone like me to use Cloudron?:
If I want to use Cloudron with a reasonably safe feeling, then I either need to go deeper into the matter of SERVER-ADMINISTRATION than I have done so far.
You missed the collective point! Cloudron makes it so you DO NOT NEED TO KNOW SERVER ADMINISTRATION! If you can:
A. Sign up at a VPS host, like Hosthatch, OVH, KimSufi, SSDNodes, etc., and purchase a VPS with at least 8GB of RAM.
B. Use the admin credentials provided by the VPS host company to login into your VPS
C. Run the three commands on https://www.cloudron.io/get.html
D. Set the DNS for a domain to use with Cloudron
E. PatienceThen you are ready to go.
TBH, as I wrote those letters, if any of them sound in the slightest confusing or unclear... then yeah. You need to spend a chunk of time learning, which I think someone else suggested. If that's the case, I recommend signing up at Digital Ocean, pay monthly for the $5 VPS, and follow their various tutorials at https://www.digitalocean.com/community/tutorials. Learn how to set up a server, how to secure a server, how to make users, how to give a user "sudo" rights, how to set up ssh to use a key rather than password, and a few about firewalls - at a minumum getting familiar with those will make you ready for self-hosting.
Just remember, with Cloudron, it manages the server. At lot of Support requests lately seem to come from people "managing their servers" - this is what Cloudron does!
A life lived in fear is a life half-lived
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@Bytepartner said in Does it make sense for someone like me to use Cloudron?:
If I want to use Cloudron with a reasonably safe feeling, then I either need to go deeper into the matter of SERVER-ADMINISTRATION than I have done so far.
You missed the collective point! Cloudron makes it so you DO NOT NEED TO KNOW SERVER ADMINISTRATION! If you can:
A. Sign up at a VPS host, like Hosthatch, OVH, KimSufi, SSDNodes, etc., and purchase a VPS with at least 8GB of RAM.
B. Use the admin credentials provided by the VPS host company to login into your VPS
C. Run the three commands on https://www.cloudron.io/get.html
D. Set the DNS for a domain to use with Cloudron
E. PatienceThen you are ready to go.
TBH, as I wrote those letters, if any of them sound in the slightest confusing or unclear... then yeah. You need to spend a chunk of time learning, which I think someone else suggested. If that's the case, I recommend signing up at Digital Ocean, pay monthly for the $5 VPS, and follow their various tutorials at https://www.digitalocean.com/community/tutorials. Learn how to set up a server, how to secure a server, how to make users, how to give a user "sudo" rights, how to set up ssh to use a key rather than password, and a few about firewalls - at a minumum getting familiar with those will make you ready for self-hosting.
Just remember, with Cloudron, it manages the server. At lot of Support requests lately seem to come from people "managing their servers" - this is what Cloudron does!
@scooke said in Does it make sense for someone like me to use Cloudron?:
at least 8GB of RAM.
You can run one or two apps with even less than that, but you do need at least 25GB of disk space to install Cloudron.
