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  3. What's the largest Cloudron you have seen?

What's the largest Cloudron you have seen?

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cloudronhostingstrategy
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    • 32463 Offline
      32463 Offline
      3246
      wrote last edited by
      #1

      🌞 Fun question for a sunny day... how large is your Cloudron or one that you have come across?

      For context, I am trying to figure out whether I want to scale vertically or keep scaling horizontally with my Cloudron. I have tried running two and would prefer the reduced maintenance of a single one... because... er- efficiency πŸ˜‚

      Issues I can see are much longer backups and restores, if they were needed. Although, I use Cloudron backups mostly for migrations (very occasionally) and to manage individual apps. I use VM snapshots for disaster recovery (DR) purposes as they are much quicker.

      What's your experience? How big would you go?

      Let me know πŸ‘‡

      πŸ‘‰ Find our more www.bebraver.online

      1 Reply Last reply
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      • luckowL Offline
        luckowL Offline
        luckow
        translator
        wrote last edited by
        #2

        We started with a Cloudron instance and used this instance for everything. Mail, web, apps, VPN ... Every time the instance needed a restart, we all crossed our fingers that it would be available again soon.

        That was the moment when we decided to split the services into different instances. We currently use about 5 instances that are connected to a central user administration as β€œIAM” (also a Cloudron instance). Incidentally, it is also better for Cloudron as a company because you pay for more than one license. That's what the (new) plan Business is for. https://www.cloudron.io/pricing.html

        With up to 50 users, this works for us. Some of our customers have 400+ users. From this use case we learned that the Cloudron user interface doesn't have nice features for such large numbers of users, mail addresses and group filters. It works, but it's not that nice to use.

        Pronouns: he/him | Primary language: German

        jdaviescoatesJ 1 Reply Last reply
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        • 32463 Offline
          32463 Offline
          3246
          wrote last edited by
          #3

          Danke, @luckow πŸ™‚ That's interesting. What are you hosting the Cloudrons on?

          πŸ‘‰ Find our more www.bebraver.online

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          • luckowL Offline
            luckowL Offline
            luckow
            translator
            wrote last edited by
            #4

            Mostly standard VPS at hetzner & co. An instance as a playground on a https://www.zimaboard.com/ In the early days, we used one instance as a backup server. That was bare metal with raid. https://forum.cloudron.io/topic/3508/show-me-your-dashboard?_=1745944465785

            Pronouns: he/him | Primary language: German

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            • luckowL luckow

              We started with a Cloudron instance and used this instance for everything. Mail, web, apps, VPN ... Every time the instance needed a restart, we all crossed our fingers that it would be available again soon.

              That was the moment when we decided to split the services into different instances. We currently use about 5 instances that are connected to a central user administration as β€œIAM” (also a Cloudron instance). Incidentally, it is also better for Cloudron as a company because you pay for more than one license. That's what the (new) plan Business is for. https://www.cloudron.io/pricing.html

              With up to 50 users, this works for us. Some of our customers have 400+ users. From this use case we learned that the Cloudron user interface doesn't have nice features for such large numbers of users, mail addresses and group filters. It works, but it's not that nice to use.

              jdaviescoatesJ Offline
              jdaviescoatesJ Offline
              jdaviescoates
              wrote last edited by
              #5

              @luckow said in What's the largest Cloudron you have seen?:

              From this use case we learned that the Cloudron user interface doesn't have nice features for such large numbers of users, mail addresses and group filters. It works, but it's not that nice to use.

              Yeah I don't even have a large number but clicking through pages of users (or domains) is annoying. Even though search also exists.

              Hopefully @staff will address such issues in the current redesign.

              As a bare minimum I want to be able to choose to display many more rows per page (e.g 25, 50, 100, 500 ie up to and including all users, or all domains etc)

              I use Cloudron with Gandi & Hetzner

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              • nebulonN Away
                nebulonN Away
                nebulon
                Staff
                wrote last edited by
                #6

                We have removed the pagination in the new UI and will fetch more on scroll instead. Pagination seems a bit oldschool these days πŸ™‚

                32463 1 Reply Last reply
                5
                • C Offline
                  C Offline
                  crazybrad
                  wrote last edited by
                  #7

                  @3246 We are using a company called SSDNodes. Our largest Cloudron is a 12CPU, 48GB, ~1TB SSD. We are hosting large mailboxes in addition to apps and wanted lots of extra space for growth. SSDNodes is U.S. based but have datacenters everywhere (https://www.ssdnodes.com/data-center). We are 5 months into a multi-year contract and zero issues:) I would only place "long-term" loads with SSDNodes as they require at least a 1-year commitment. The longer you contract, the more you save.

                  Here is a referral link if someone is interested: https://www.ssdnodes.com/manage/aff.php?aff=2481&register=true (FYI, I will use any referral fees received to benefit the Cloudron community rather than me personally.)

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                  • nebulonN nebulon

                    We have removed the pagination in the new UI and will fetch more on scroll instead. Pagination seems a bit oldschool these days πŸ™‚

                    32463 Offline
                    32463 Offline
                    3246
                    wrote last edited by
                    #8

                    @nebulon and you added the lovely list view too πŸ‘

                    πŸ‘‰ Find our more www.bebraver.online

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                    • 32463 Offline
                      32463 Offline
                      3246
                      wrote last edited by
                      #9

                      Thanks for sharing details about your Cloudrons.

                      How do you handle recovery from a borked server?

                      I find that using the build-in backup not very good for speedy restores of an entire server (your milage may vary depending on sizes). That's why I use them for tactical restores or cloning of apps only, unless I have to move a server between providers (which I try to avoid). A local VM snapshot appears to be the fastest in my experience.

                      My RTO (Recovery Time Objective) is to have the server backup and serving within one hour. My most common scenario is likely to be an update or change of system configuration that results in loss of service. Considering that IP's don't change, this seems to work OK.

                      I'd love to hear your experiences πŸ™‚

                      πŸ‘‰ Find our more www.bebraver.online

                      BrutalBirdieB 1 Reply Last reply
                      0
                      • 32463 3246

                        Thanks for sharing details about your Cloudrons.

                        How do you handle recovery from a borked server?

                        I find that using the build-in backup not very good for speedy restores of an entire server (your milage may vary depending on sizes). That's why I use them for tactical restores or cloning of apps only, unless I have to move a server between providers (which I try to avoid). A local VM snapshot appears to be the fastest in my experience.

                        My RTO (Recovery Time Objective) is to have the server backup and serving within one hour. My most common scenario is likely to be an update or change of system configuration that results in loss of service. Considering that IP's don't change, this seems to work OK.

                        I'd love to hear your experiences πŸ™‚

                        BrutalBirdieB Offline
                        BrutalBirdieB Offline
                        BrutalBirdie
                        Partner
                        wrote last edited by BrutalBirdie
                        #10

                        @3246 said in What's the largest Cloudron you have seen?:

                        My RTO (Recovery Time Objective) is to have the server backup and serving within one hour

                        Yes depending on size and type of backup provider used.
                        Keep in mind, Cloudron will have multi backup destination soon (tm).

                        I know of a setup (that I helped to set up) that uses a RAID 0 PCI 5.0 NVMe drives with Cloudron ext4 Backup provider with superfast backup and restore times.
                        Since, it is a local disk/raid directly connected to the system.

                        Since an external backup is still wanted by him, this setup uses a custom script that syncs that RAID to an external provider. (note: not needed in the future).

                        I've seen this setup restore a 500GB App within ~60 seconds.
                        And the whole system less than 10 Minutes.

                        You could go even faster with a RAMDISK (volatile) to RAID0 (local) to external backup chain.
                        But since the RAMDISK is volatile, on boot the data from the RAID0 would need to be re-synced to the RAMDISK.
                        Otherwise the Cloudron App or full restore would not find its data.

                        Like my work? Consider donating a drink. Cheers!

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                        • 32463 Offline
                          32463 Offline
                          3246
                          wrote last edited by
                          #11

                          Wow, @BrutalBirdie, that's some speed! πŸ˜€

                          I am using VM's (currently Hetzner) and backup to StorageBox as well as VM snapshots. I had a bare metal box at Hetzner before, albeit with spinning disks of rust instead of the super fast NVMEs you are running. It took more like 6 hours to restore when I moved (on a weekend).

                          I look forward to having multi-location backups and used a similar means to achieve redundancy. I backedup to a local SAS HDD (ext4) and then ran a cron job to shovel a copy to StorageBox.

                          I wish we could have Borg backups (with multiple repos/locations) πŸ˜‰ @girish πŸ˜‰

                          πŸ‘‰ Find our more www.bebraver.online

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                          • C Offline
                            C Offline
                            charlesnw
                            wrote last edited by
                            #12

                            My Cloudron details:

                            Hosting Provider: Netcup
                            Hosting Product: VPS 8000 G11 iv 12M MNZ (16 core, 64gb ram, 2048 SSD)
                            Total Apps: 158
                            Backup provider: Backblaze B2

                            I and my company are all in on Cloudron.

                            I use it for my business and for my family office. In the process of packaging up a number of applications for Cloudron that a fully self-hosted business would need.

                            humptydumptyH 1 Reply Last reply
                            4
                            • C charlesnw

                              My Cloudron details:

                              Hosting Provider: Netcup
                              Hosting Product: VPS 8000 G11 iv 12M MNZ (16 core, 64gb ram, 2048 SSD)
                              Total Apps: 158
                              Backup provider: Backblaze B2

                              I and my company are all in on Cloudron.

                              I use it for my business and for my family office. In the process of packaging up a number of applications for Cloudron that a fully self-hosted business would need.

                              humptydumptyH Offline
                              humptydumptyH Offline
                              humptydumpty
                              wrote last edited by
                              #13

                              @charlesnw said in What's the largest Cloudron you have seen?:

                              In the process of packaging up a number of applications for Cloudron that a fully self-hosted business would need

                              TheOfficeMichaelScottGIF.gif

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