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    Outline - a Notion-like open source app

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    • girish
      girish Staff @nj last edited by

      @nj thanks! have added it to our list of next apps. What is your impression of the app itself?

      ei8fdb nj 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 3
      • ei8fdb
        ei8fdb @girish last edited by

        Does anyone have a demo of this app running? I'd love to get a test account to look at it to try it out. Right now I'm using Joplin (and the great server). Thanks!

        luckow 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
        • nj
          nj @girish last edited by nj

          @girish the app itself is great. I moved our team from Bookstack to Outline because it was extremely easy to create groups and assign permissions, default permission, etc. It also supports real-time collaboration on the document so we also started using it for meeting notes. So far, no issues. Working wonderfully inside cloudron with minio and keycloak both hosted alongside.

          It is also pretty simple to keep updating regularly because of the simple migration command, and storage based on minio. No need to fuss with manual migration and storage, etc.

          Also, I’d like to request S3 as an addon, because it’s trivial to create a bucket for an app, and an user for it, then grant β€œall” permissions on that bucket to that user.

          luckow 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 4
          • luckow
            luckow translator @nj last edited by luckow

            @nj First. Top. Thank you so much to step into app packaging. But now here is the real world πŸ˜‰

            Sorry to ask noob questions. And yes: I have to read the docs for keycloak. But to test your app package, there is a missing part in the "First time setup" from your app package.

            On your OIDC Provider, follow these steps: 1,2,3 done.
            But then in 4: And, the client is added to the reaml called "cloudron"

            Where do I add the client to the realm in keycloak?
            From the Realm settings perspective, I didn't find any settings for the client.
            ad5fe400-8103-41bd-8ab8-f17072332044-grafik.png
            And Client Registration isn't the right tab πŸ™‚

            Same for the client perspective.
            27eb5448-5c9f-42a1-a0ee-e794278fb7f1-grafik.png

            Yep. I know. SSO/IDM/SAML/LDAP/AD (<- and so on and on) is a complex topic. But hey. We are here for the Cloudron experience πŸ˜‰

            Pronouns: he/him | Primary language: German

            nj 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
            • luckow
              luckow translator last edited by

              @luckow Ey luckow! You already added the client to the realm Cloudron. Look at the navigation on the right side. Because if you click on the triangle, you can see you are right there. The Cloudron realm.
              53a1190d-d528-4699-9367-a4b216ce4ee3-grafik.png

              But that is no explanation for your user experience.
              4f119402-7f3e-49b4-8673-f505aee87f54-grafik.png
              2c3985fa-77c9-49bc-ac80-177ce54e07b4-grafik.png

              @luckow you need to find out why your client was not found.
              luckow @ luckow not today. tomorrow is another day.

              Pronouns: he/him | Primary language: German

              luckow 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
              • luckow
                luckow translator @luckow last edited by

                @luckow Without the tomatoes on my eyes, the solution is obvious.

                Keycloak - Clients - Credentials:
                f6c19a5a-f814-48ec-957f-d2c25ff7e874-grafik.png

                Client Id and Secret does not mean that you take ZIDdK... for both. Secret is secret. Where do you find the Client Id? This is also simple.

                Keycload - Clients
                db996fc7-f096-4d4c-8db1-4db58c57a434-grafik.png
                Yes. It's the name.

                Sorry for hijacking this thread for my noob questions.

                Pronouns: he/him | Primary language: German

                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                • luckow
                  luckow translator @ei8fdb last edited by

                  @ei8fdb I have taken the email address from your website and added you as an administrator to my outline instance. Feel free to break anything, it's just a test instance.

                  Pronouns: he/him | Primary language: German

                  ei8fdb jdaviescoates 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 1
                  • ei8fdb
                    ei8fdb @luckow last edited by

                    β™₯ Thank you very much @luckow. I got the email and thought "what is this email?!". But then thought it might be you. I appreciate you giving me this account.

                    This is an interesting app. It's another riff on Notion/Anytype friendly mark-up note taking/knowledge management/database app.

                    My main personal complaint with all these apps is they require always online access. There is no realistic way to use it offline.

                    I'm going to stay with it and see how it all works. As a wiki-type collaboration app it's certainly a very nice alternative to having to learn yet another markdown flavour.

                    marcusquinn 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                    • jdaviescoates
                      jdaviescoates @luckow last edited by

                      @luckow can I play too? πŸ™‚

                      I use Cloudron with Gandi & Hetzner

                      luckow 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                      • nj
                        nj @luckow last edited by

                        Hi @luckow ,
                        Could you try following this blog post? https://blog.yarsalabs.com/self-hosting-outline-wiki-on-cloudron/
                        The description and first-time setup still need some work, so I'll look into it again.

                        luckow 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 3
                        • luckow
                          luckow translator @jdaviescoates last edited by

                          @jdaviescoates Give me an email address to send the invitation link to πŸ™‚

                          Pronouns: he/him | Primary language: German

                          jdaviescoates 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                          • jdaviescoates
                            jdaviescoates @luckow last edited by

                            @luckow said in Outline - a Notion-like open source app:

                            @jdaviescoates Give me an email address to send the invitation link to πŸ™‚

                            Sent via chat dm on here

                            I use Cloudron with Gandi & Hetzner

                            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                            • luckow
                              luckow translator @nj last edited by

                              @nj I found this post yesterday. Well written. Most of my problems (including the minio) were tomatoes on my eyes. And to be fair, misleading error messages in log files & browser console didn't make it any easier.
                              Let's see what the app packaging staff can tweak themselves. IMHO minio only for image storage is a big cannon as a solution.

                              Pronouns: he/him | Primary language: German

                              1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                              • marcusquinn
                                marcusquinn @ei8fdb last edited by

                                @ei8fdb I believe AnyType is intended to work offline and be decentralised. I suppose you could also have a localhost Cloudron instance if you like it like that?

                                We're not here for a long time - but we are here for a good time :)
                                Jersey/UK
                                Work & Ecommerce Advice: https://brandlight.org
                                Personal & Software Tips: https://marcusquinn.com

                                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                • infogulch
                                  infogulch last edited by

                                  @nj Wow that's great!

                                  The blog post installs keycloak as an app, but it might work better as a built-in addon that provides ODIC to any app that requests it. I suspect that there are more apps that authenticate via ODIC exclusively, and I can see there are some apps that could use it as an alternative to LDAP.

                                  After some more research, it seems that OAuth used to be the default authentication method for Cloudron apps but it was removed in 2020 due to lack of support in apps. Has the authentication landscape changed in the last 2 years? Is now a good time to add it back? How does SAML look now?

                                  girish 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                                  • girish
                                    girish Staff @infogulch last edited by girish

                                    @infogulch FWIW, I don't mind adding OpenID into cloudron. It was OAuth that wasn't a great idea. My understanding is that OpenID is more uniform and standardized. @nebulon and @fbartels probably know more about this though.

                                    I guess I mean OpenID connect (OIDC) and not OpenID. I don't know the difference between these terms πŸ™‚

                                    klawitterb 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                                    • klawitterb
                                      klawitterb @girish last edited by

                                      @girish how about adding oidc as another addon and just ferderate to LDAP? Something like https://github.com/dexidp/dex could be used for this.
                                      Only thinking out loud, never used this myself. Stumpled over it while working on other projects. 😁

                                      girish fbartels 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 3
                                      • girish
                                        girish Staff @klawitterb last edited by

                                        @klawitterb yes, I don't see why not. But as mentioned, I am speaking beyond my expertise here πŸ™‚ I think @nebulon will know how much work it is on Cloudron side.

                                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 3
                                        • fbartels
                                          fbartels App Dev @klawitterb last edited by

                                          @klawitterb said in Outline - a Notion-like open source app:

                                          as another addon

                                          Yes, oidc should definitely be an addon (even better if one could just add addons during runtime of an app, so that one does not need to remove and reinstall apps to enable it). But instead of going third party it should be something native to the stack, like the https://docs.cloudron.io/packaging/addons/#proxyauth addon to benefit from existing sessions and the 2fa Cloudron already provides.

                                          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 4
                                          • klawitterb
                                            klawitterb last edited by

                                            So I was curious about my proposal and just tried this. Seems to work quote well. Much easier than setting up a fully fledged identity provider like keycloak imho.
                                            Basically dex is a go app which is controlled by a yaml config. Currently just running it inside the outline app itself with a little nginx proxy in front of it. When logging in it redirects to the login mask from dex which then authenticates the user from cloudrons LDAP.

                                            marcusquinn 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 4
                                            • marcusquinn
                                              marcusquinn @klawitterb last edited by marcusquinn

                                              @klawitterb Nice find and R&D! Looks like this might be just the thing for making Cloudron's LDAP useable by external apps:

                                              • https://forum.cloudron.io/topic/2189/ldap-ad-server

                                              We're not here for a long time - but we are here for a good time :)
                                              Jersey/UK
                                              Work & Ecommerce Advice: https://brandlight.org
                                              Personal & Software Tips: https://marcusquinn.com

                                              1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                                              • nj
                                                nj last edited by

                                                Update available: Outline v0.63.0

                                                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 6
                                                • infogulch
                                                  infogulch last edited by infogulch

                                                  Now that Cloudron adds authentication headers with the proxyAuth addon, maybe the easiest solution to integrate authentication is to use those headers in outline. I guess that might be as simple as adding a new file to the /server/routes/auth/providers dir. This would simplify the cloudron package because it wouldn't have to set up and run keycloak.

                                                  https://github.com/outline/outline/tree/main/server/routes/auth/providers

                                                  Then the only barrier to packaging for cloudron would be the hypothetical s3/minio addon mentioned above.

                                                  nj 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 4
                                                  • nj
                                                    nj @infogulch last edited by

                                                    @infogulch I think that's doable. I'll see if I can get it working.

                                                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 6
                                                    • nj
                                                      nj last edited by nj

                                                      Update available: Outline v0.64.3

                                                      PS: Still no time to look into auth using Cloudron ProxyAuth

                                                      jdaviescoates 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 4
                                                      • jdaviescoates
                                                        jdaviescoates @nj last edited by jdaviescoates

                                                        @nj said in Outline - a Notion-like open source app:

                                                        PS: Still no time to look into auth using Cloudron ProxyAuth

                                                        πŸ™ praying that you'll find the time! Hopefully then @staff will be able to take it from from there get this app into the App Store! (perhaps they could take a look at adding the ProxyAuth too? πŸ™‚ πŸ™ )

                                                        Edit: or perhaps another better/simpler(I've no idea if it's either, rieally! πŸ˜› ) option would be to connect the outline app to the Cloudron LDAP Directory Server https://docs.cloudron.io/user-management/#directory-server= ? πŸ™‚

                                                        I use Cloudron with Gandi & Hetzner

                                                        klawitterb 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                        • klawitterb
                                                          klawitterb @jdaviescoates last edited by

                                                          @jdaviescoates I've got this running using dex serving as a connection between oidc and cloudron ldap. Works pretty well.
                                                          If you're interested you can find the code in my repo https://git.apehost.de/cloudron-apps/outline

                                                          jdaviescoates 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                                          • jdaviescoates
                                                            jdaviescoates @klawitterb last edited by

                                                            @klawitterb that's great, thanks! But I wanna get Outline in the App Store.

                                                            Hopefully @staff can take a look at both these custom Outline packages and do whatever needs doing to get them into the store πŸ™‚

                                                            I use Cloudron with Gandi & Hetzner

                                                            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                            • marcusquinn
                                                              marcusquinn last edited by

                                                              Perhaps AppFlowy can offer an alternative in the meantime?

                                                              • https://forum.cloudron.io/topic/6088/appflowy

                                                              Local installers available:

                                                              • https://appflowy.gitbook.io/docs/essential-documentation/install-appflowy/installation-methods

                                                              We're not here for a long time - but we are here for a good time :)
                                                              Jersey/UK
                                                              Work & Ecommerce Advice: https://brandlight.org
                                                              Personal & Software Tips: https://marcusquinn.com

                                                              1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                              • Vikas-jk
                                                                Vikas-jk last edited by

                                                                Outline is paid, it is better to add a free plan also.
                                                                There are also free and open source notion alternatives like Logseq or focalboard which can be checked here

                                                                https://developingdaily.com/article/technology/best-notion-alternatives-open-source-and-free/314

                                                                jdaviescoates 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                                                • marcusquinn
                                                                  marcusquinn last edited by

                                                                  And Documize: https://forum.cloudron.io/topic/7116/documize-alternative-to-confluence

                                                                  We're not here for a long time - but we are here for a good time :)
                                                                  Jersey/UK
                                                                  Work & Ecommerce Advice: https://brandlight.org
                                                                  Personal & Software Tips: https://marcusquinn.com

                                                                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                                                  • jdaviescoates
                                                                    jdaviescoates @Vikas-jk last edited by

                                                                    @Vikas-jk said in Outline - a Notion-like open source app:

                                                                    Outline is paid, it is better to add a free plan also.
                                                                    There are also free and open source notion alternatives like Logseq or focalboard which can be checked here

                                                                    https://developingdaily.com/article/technology/best-notion-alternatives-open-source-and-free/314

                                                                    Hosted Outline is paid, that doesn't apply to self-hosted. Outline is also free (as in freedom) open source software too.

                                                                    I use Cloudron with Gandi & Hetzner

                                                                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                                                                    • nj
                                                                      nj last edited by nj

                                                                      Update available: Outline v0.65.2

                                                                      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 5
                                                                      • Referenced by  marcusquinn marcusquinn 
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